Anyone have experience with Hella Rallye 4000 FOG lights? Beam pattern shots?

So, as the title states i'm looking for experience with Rallye 4000's with the fog beam. Looking to replace the factory fogs on an '09 Subaru Outback with some actually useful fogs. Plan to re-wire the fog light circuit so that the fogs can be turned on independently from the low beams (but only after the parking lights are on) so that in really inclement and foggy weather they may be used without the low beams (and driven at a reasonable speed for the conditions).
The light i'm specifically interested in are the Hella Rallye 4000's in a fog pattern. Does anyone have any direct experience with these in the fog beam? Even better if anyone has any beam shots of the Rallye 4000 fog. I know Hella has beam graphics posted showing the width and limited reach, but I want to see what the actual beam looks like. Thanks in advance!

Mpowered02 said:

So, as the title states i'm looking for experience with Rallye 4000's with the fog beam. Looking to replace the factory fogs on an '09 Subaru Outback with some actually useful fogs. Plan to re-wire the fog light circuit so that the fogs can be turned on independently from the low beams (but only after the parking lights are on) so that in really inclement and foggy weather they may be used without the low beams (and driven at a reasonable speed for the conditions).

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Fog thick enough to where when at night even low beams can't be used is quite rare, almost to the point of nonexistence. In the daytime in the same fog, just turn your low beams on instead of using front fog lamps at all.

You're better off with a rear fog lamp-- front fog lamps don't help drivers not rear-end a vehicle in front of them. They're good for lane-keeping, but not much else. A rear fog lamp protects you from getting rear-ended, regardless of what lighting equipment the guy behind you has.

Even better if anyone has any beam shots of the Rallye 4000 fog. I know Hella has beam graphics posted showing the width and limited reach, but I want to see what the actual beam looks like!

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Beamshots are fun to look at but aren't useful in determining the performance of a lamp. Beam isoplots are actually much more informative.

Mpowered02 said:

The light i'm specifically interested in are the Hella Rallye 4000's in a fog pattern. Does anyone have any direct experience with these in the fog beam? Even better if anyone has any beam shots of the Rallye 4000 fog. I know Hella has beam graphics posted showing the width and limited reach, but I want to see what the actual beam looks like. Thanks in advance!

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This is the same H3 fog optic, right?
https://off-road-light.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=76
The mounting height and angle on the photo won't match yours, I presume.

Alaric Darconville said:

Fog thick enough to where when at night even low beams can't be used is quite rare, almost to the point of nonexistence. In the daytime in the same fog, just turn your low beams on instead of using front fog lamps at all.

You're better off with a rear fog lamp-- front fog lamps don't help drivers not rear-end a vehicle in front of them. They're good for lane-keeping, but not much else. A rear fog lamp protects you from getting rear-ended, regardless of what lighting equipment the guy behind you has.


Beamshots are fun to look at but aren't useful in determining the performance of a lamp. Beam isoplots are actually much more informative.

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Thanks for the input. The car these will go one is typically used as our family adventuremobile for mountaing biking and snowboarding trips and sometimes sees heavy snow. I find a good set of fogs useful in heavy snow driving as well, especially with selective yellow light output (I plan to tint the lenses using yellow Metalcast).
And you are absolutely right about the need for a rear fog. Looking for a good rear fog solution as well...

Marcturus said:

This is the same H3 fog optic, right?
https://off-road-light.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=76
The mounting height and angle on the photo won't match yours, I presume.

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You're right, it looks like the mounted height of the lights in that picture are quite high. Mine would definitely be mounted lower, closer to the road so the foreground lighting would definitely be different, but it is pretty useful for seeing how they throw the light. Thanks for that.

Mpowered02 said:

I find a good set of fogs useful in heavy snow driving as well, especially with selective yellow light output

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When you also have a)actively falling snow, b)nighttime and c)sub-25mph speeds, right? If it's not active snowfall, and the combination of nighttime and low speed don't apply, then you're probably finding they make it feel more comfortable to drive, but they're not actually helping.

Looking for a good rear fog solution as well...

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I'd start there-- the Peterson 850F might look alright on your Outback-- it looks pretty good on member Qship1996's Highlander (two pics here).

Mine would definitely be mounted lower, closer to the road so the foreground lighting would definitely be different, but it is pretty useful for seeing how they throw the light. Thanks for that.

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Fog lamps really aren't to 'throw' light-- they are more for picking out road edges than trying to see where you're going, and to produce very little backscatter in doing so. The lower to the ground, the less distance you'll get out of them-- but they're not meant for distance.

Hey thats my Highlander in those pics! I have been real happy with the Peterson 850F rear fog lamp-has been just over 1 year since installing it and it has been trouble-free and used about 10 times so far in heavy fog/heavy downpours of rain/blizzard white-out type conditions.

Qship1996 said:

Hey thats my Highlander in those pics!

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We know:

Alaric Darconville said:

looks pretty good on member Qship1996's Highlander

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I have been real happy with the Peterson 850F rear fog lamp-has been just over 1 year since installing it and it has been trouble-free and used about 10 times so far in heavy fog/heavy downpours of rain/blizzard white-out type conditions.

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Good to hear!

There's also the 850F-C if you want extra light when reversing and want a rear fog lamp.

And just a note on rear fog lamps vs. front-- in UNECE signatories, front fog lamps are regulated (unlike in North America) but are still optional; rear fog lamps are required. The greater hazard in fog is being rear-ended.

Introduced in 1966, it's a fairly modern invention but has seemingly proved its worth. Front fog lamps have been around a lot longer (since the mid-to-late '30s), yet it's the rear one that has seemingly has proved its safety benefit to UNECE regulators.

Alaric Darconville said:

Fog thick enough to where when at night even low beams can't be used is quite rare, almost to the point of nonexistence. In the daytime in the same fog, just turn your low beams on instead of using front fog lamps at all.

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Big Sur, CA all the time. Ever had to open your door to find the lines on the road? Although, no light is helping at this point.

Alaric Darconville said:

When you also have a)actively falling snow, b)nighttime and c)sub-25mph speeds, right? If it's not active snowfall, and the combination of nighttime and low speed don't apply, then you're probably finding they make it feel more comfortable to drive, but they're not actually helping.

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Sorry...didn't say that properly. To clarify, yes I meant driving in actively falling snow and at nighttime. And definitely at low speeds reasonable for the conditions. In heavy actively falling snow I find that the low beams even can light up the falling snow that reflects back, reducing visibility. Turning on highs is practically like putting a white blanket over your eyes. That's why I'd like to wire the fogs so that they can be turned on with the parking lights (independently from the low beams)...

Alaric Darconville said:

I'd start there-- the Peterson 850F might look alright on your Outback-- it looks pretty good on member Qship1996's Highlander (two pics here).

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Thanks for the fog light suggestions. Looks pretty good on that Highlander. I'm hoping to figure out some way to do a rear fog that is more integrated into the rear of the car. I like how some cars have a separate bulb and reflector built into the rear taillights that is dedicated to rear fog (that on most cars is de-activated for the US market). Unfortunately, the taillights on my Outback have no extra bulb and reflector space like that. The BP Outbacks in the Japanese Domestic Market (and the rest of the world for that matter) have an LED Rear Fog that replaces one of the back-up/reverse lights, but from the pics i've seen it doesn't look like it lights up very much and would offer little in terms of added visibility to drivers behind you in thick fog. Also don't like that you have to lose one of the reverse lights to fit it, since they don't seem to light up enough when reversing to begin with. That said...that 850F-C looks pretty interesting...

Alaric Darconville said:

Fog lamps really aren't to 'throw' light-- they are more for picking out road edges than trying to see where you're going, and to produce very little backscatter in doing so. The lower to the ground, the less distance you'll get out of them-- but they're not meant for distance.

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Sorry, that was a poor choice of words. Didn't mean "throw" as in to see what kinda distance they reach. Just meant the overall shape of the beam (width, upper cutoff, etc.). Use of the word "throw" was definitely a bad choice...

Mpowered02 said:

Sorry...didn't say that properly. To clarify, yes I meant driving in actively falling snow and at nighttime. And definitely at low speeds reasonable for the conditions. In heavy actively falling snow I find that the low beams even can light up the falling snow that reflects back, reducing visibility. Turning on highs is practically like putting a white blanket over your eyes.

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Good to know you know there are "speed limits" with fog lamps, and of course that you're not going to be a daytime front fog lamp user.

When nighttime fog and/or snowfall are so bad that even your low beams result in overwhelming backscatter, that's when the rear fog lamp is your best friend. Your taillights will be lost in that mess.

Thanks for the fog light suggestions. Looks pretty good on that Highlander. I'm hoping to figure out some way to do a rear fog that is more integrated into the rear of the car.

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You'll have to cut a hole into the bumper, but using this to mount it flush with the bumper would be fairly clean. There's also the GM rear fog lamp (GM part no. 12533323) that's mentioned (and pictured) here.

You could get the right side one as well (p/n 12533324) so as to make it appear symmetrical-- but don't wire it up. A single rear fog lamp on the "prevailing driver's side" is more effective than two symmetrically placed rear fog lamps, as those might tend to look like continuously on stop lamps.

No experience with the Rallye 4000, but have been very satisfied with the 500s I have (both fog and driving). I know not much help, but still a testimonial for the manufacturer.

Alaric Darconville said:

A single rear fog lamp on the "prevailing driver's side" is more effective than two symmetrically placed rear fog lamps, as those might tend to look like continuously on stop lamps.

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That's true with rear fogs close to the stop (brake) lights, but if there's a fair amount of separation distance then not only is there no confusion between rear fogs and stop lights, but the dual rear fogs can be beneficial (provide an additional distance cue that a single light can't). Anyway, the rule on rear fogs is "one or two" just about everywhere in the world. In Europe and the rest of the ECE world, there's a rule that the nearest lit edges of the rear fog and stop light can't be closer than 100mm (4 inches). That might not be enough separation, but it's better than the silence on that matter in US regs.

-Virgil- said:

the dual rear fogs can be beneficial (provide an additional distance cue that a single light can't).

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True enough! Hopefully, people behind you aren't closing in on you so quickly that they need it, but then again, I've seen how they drive in Oklahoma. I prefer a single one for the disambiguation (somewhat in alignment with Daniel Stern's opinion on the matter) despite the loss of that distance cue.

the silence on that matter in US regs.

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One of those things we in North America get wrong that they in Europe get right. (On the other hand, they require AMBER rear sidemarker lamps for some reason. Ain't nobody's perfect, nohows.)

Alaric Darconville said:

One of those things we in North America get wrong that they in Europe get right. (On the other hand, they require AMBER rear sidemarker lamps for some reason. Ain't nobody's perfect, nohows.)

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Actually, they don't require any sidemarkers on vehicles shorter than 6 meters (~20 feet) long. They're permitted, but not required. If present they have to be amber at the front and rear unless the rear ones are built into ("grouped, combined, or reciprocally incorporated with", says the reg) a multifunction lamp. In that case the rear sidemarkers can be either red or amber. This makes just about no sense...it was probably the result of an attempt to harmonize with the US reg, but if it's dark out and you're looking at the side of a car with sidemarkers from any kind of distance away, all you're going to see is the light from the sidemarkers, not whether they're separate or built into a combination light. Sheesh!

-Virgil- said:

Sheesh!

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It's a mess! Posts like yours above *should* settle any arguments about "European regulations being so much better than in the US!" (however, it's NOT going to prove that their regulations are all that much worse!

Alaric Darconville said:

Good to know you know there are "speed limits" with fog lamps, and of course that you're not going to be a daytime front fog lamp user.

When nighttime fog and/or snowfall are so bad that even your low beams result in overwhelming backscatter, that's when the rear fog lamp is your best friend. Your taillights will be lost in that mess.

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Yes, definitely NOT a daytime fog user, nor do I turn on my fogs at night. My front fog lights are only on when the conditions require it.

Alaric Darconville said:

You'll have to cut a hole into the bumper, but using this to mount it flush with the bumper would be fairly clean. There's also the GM rear fog lamp (GM part no. 12533323) that's mentioned (and pictured) here.

You could get the right side one as well (p/n 12533324) so as to make it appear symmetrical-- but don't wire it up. A single rear fog lamp on the "prevailing driver's side" is more effective than two symmetrically placed rear fog lamps, as those might tend to look like continuously on stop lamps.

Click to expand...

I'm actually leaning towards that Peterson 850F-C. I like the idea of the added reverse light LED's built into that unit. Since I like symmetry, I'm thinking of flush mounting 2 of those into the rear bumper cover, but only wiring the driver's side to a rear fog switch. The right side one would only serve to satiate my OCD, and as more added reverse lights.

-Virgil- said:

That's true with rear fogs close to the stop (brake) lights, but if there's a fair amount of separation distance then not only is there no confusion between rear fogs and stop lights, but the dual rear fogs can be beneficial (provide an additional distance cue that a single light can't). Anyway, the rule on rear fogs is "one or two" just about everywhere in the world. In Europe and the rest of the ECE world, there's a rule that the nearest lit edges of the rear fog and stop light can't be closer than 100mm (4 inches). That might not be enough separation, but it's better than the silence on that matter in US regs.

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Thanks for that. Good to know the limitations and regulations regarding the rear fogs. Do you know if there are any regulations limiting the number of reverse lights?

anyway, thanks for the great information Gentlemen. I will likely go with the Hella Rallye 4000 fogs as the upgrade to my stock fog lights, and some Peterson rear fogs. Last night I took a bit of time to re-wire the fog circuit on the car so that it comes on with the parking lights. The only downside to it is that with only the parking lights on, the Daytime Running Lights (high beam bulbs lit at lower voltage) are lit. Might also rig a relay to the DRL circuit so that the DRL circuit works, but with the front fogs on the DRL is deactivated...since I don't want to deactivate the DRL completely like many Subaru owners do...