Silverado 2500HD

I have an 07 Silverado Classic 2500HD Duramax which had really marginal forward lighting stock. I never understood while GM chose to turn off the low beams when running high beam so I upgraded first to the HIR1 and HIR2 bulbs and then did the all on headlight mod in the under hood relay box which allows Lows, Highs and Fog lights to all come on with high beams. Go to Youtube and do a search for "GM all on headlight mod" very simple and inexpensive to do. Only requires a couple of diodes in specific locations.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

Inspector71 said:

I never understood while GM chose to turn off the low beams when running high beam

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To avoid overlighting the foreground.

so I upgraded first to the HIR1 and HIR2 bulbs

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No problem with HIR1 in your high beams, but HIR2 in those low beams = unsafe and illegal levels of glare no matter how you aim the lamps.

and then dropped in an upgrade diode board in the under hood relay box which allows Lows, Highs and Fog lights to all come on with high beams.

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That was not a wise idea. It certainly wasn't an upgrade. Fog lamps are not supposed to be on with high beams (and really shouldn't be on at all except in severely bad weather at very low driving speed; see here). All you've done is make the foreground even more overlit on high beam. It feels more comfortable to drive that way, but it's less safe.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

Virgil, you are correct of course about over lighting the foreground, and I know the reason it's not good. But some folks might need a further discussion about why it's bad. Maybe a sticky with good explanation. If you've explained in the past I must have missed it.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

-Virgil- said:

To avoid overlighting the foreground.



No problem with HIR1 in your high beams, but HIR2 in those low beams = unsafe and illegal levels of glare no matter how you aim the lamps.



That was not a wise idea. It certainly wasn't an upgrade. Fog lamps are not supposed to be on with high beams (and really shouldn't be on at all except in severely bad weather at very low driving speed; see here). All you've done is make the foreground even more overlit on high beam. It feels more comfortable to drive that way, but it's less safe.

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Respectfully disagree! I can't quote any experts or site any studies, but I can testify from personal experience that I am able to see objects illuminated at much greater distances with my current setup opposed to just the HBs alone. It seems counter intuitive to me how seeing an object at increased distance is a bad thing. Glare, by definition, is only an issue when it is viewed by someone. For that reason, I could care less about potential glare to oncoming drivers by my use of HIR2 bulbs in the HBs and Fogs by virtue of the fact they are never lit when any traffic is present. If there is no one around to see the glare is it still glare? To whom? If overlighting is not a good thing then I guess adding off road lighting is popular in the off road community because it looks cool or maybe it is actually a necessity in able for off road drivers to see the ground in front of them? I have tried it both ways and I will stick with my all on mod thanks. However, since the subject has come up, I have started reading discussions about overlighting the foreground in order to educate myself on the issue. Seems to me overlighting is an issue for a photographer but not for a driver. For the present however, I have no plans to change my setup.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

I am able to see objects illuminated at much greater distances with my current setup opposed to just the HBs alone

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You think you can at least....

Re: Silverado light upgrade

GaryM said:

Virgil, you are correct of course about over lighting the foreground, and I know the reason it's not good. But some folks might need a further discussion about why it's bad.

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Who are those "folks"? Often, it's people I run into that can be given study after study, citation after citation, and fact after fact, and then be told by them that "that's just YOUR opinion"?

Maybe a sticky with good explanation.

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Probably not. It's a simple concept, so simple that it shouldn't need a sticky. This could be an extreme example, but have you ever turned your porchlight off to see the stars?

Re: Silverado light upgrade

"That's just your opinion" is what my Mom told me when I told her the guy saying she won a lottery prize but had to send money for taxes was running a scam. True story Virgil. $44K later she was on medicaid in a nursing home, so I understand what you're saying.

And I do live in the county and hate the towns new street lights that send half their light up into the sky. And that's 5 miles away.

Inspector71 said:

Respectfully disagree! I can't quote any experts or site any studies, but I can testify from personal experience that I am able to see objects illuminated at much greater distances with my current setup opposed to just the HBs alone.

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The reason you can't quote any experts, or cite any studies supporting your position, it simply isn't true.

It seems counter intuitive to me how seeing an object at increased distance is a bad thing.

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It's not a bad thing, but you're not seeing things at an increased distance with your low beams on alongside your high beams unless your low beams are extremely misaimed. Optimally, you'll see about as far with them on with high beams, but that's with well-designed and aimed lamps. More likely, you're seeing less far because they may put down too much foreground light. Add HIR2-powered fog lamps, and you're definitely not seeing as far as with high beams alone.

Glare, by definition, is only an issue when it is viewed by someone.

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Excessive foreground light, and excessive backscatter are two sources of glare for the driver.

For that reason, I could care less about potential glare to oncoming drivers by my use of HIR2 bulbs in the HBs and Fogs by virtue of the fact they are never lit when any traffic is present.

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It's good that you COULD care less-- it means that you actually DO care to at least some small degree.
And running HIR2 bulbs in fog lamps? That's not a very wise thing to do, especially since you're driving around with them on in conditions that don't warrant them. You think they add to your distant vision, but they don't. They will oversaturate your foreground, causing you glare.

If there is no one around to see the glare is it still glare? To whom?

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Yes, to you the driver if it's in the form of excessive backscatter, foreground illumination, and from retroreflective signage.

If overlighting is not a good thing then I guess adding off road lighting is popular in the off road community because it looks cool or maybe it is actually a necessity in able for off road drivers to see the ground in front of them?

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Completely different conditions, much lower speeds. Distance viewing isn't needed so much when rockcrawling or fording a stream.

I have tried it both ways and I will stick with my all on mod thanks.

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If you're doing this on a public road, you're doing it wrong, and you're violating Rule 11 (a rule you read at the very most twelve days ago). Do you remember rule 11?

However, since the subject has come up, I have started reading discussions about overlighting the foreground in order to educate myself on the issue.

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Then do more reading, and more reading in this subforum, particularly what the moderators have to say on the subject. It's easy to find material that supports your own position when you screen out that material that contradicts your belief. Confirmation bias and the Dunning-Kruger effect go hand-in-hand.

Seems to me overlighting is an issue for a photographer but not for a driver. For the present however, I have no plans to change my setup.

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Seems to you, yes. But if you are using your "setup" with all your forward lighting lit at normal roadway speeds, you're really putting yourself in danger, despite not believing this is so.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

Inspector71 said:

Respectfully disagree! I can't quote any experts or site any studies, but I can testify from personal experience that I am able to see objects illuminated at much greater distances with my current setup opposed to just the HBs alone.

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You might think you can, but you actually can't. If your low-beam and/or fog lamps are illuminating anywhere near the distance of your high beams, then they are severely and dangerously misaimed.

It seems counter intuitive to me how seeing an object at increased distance is a bad thing.

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It's not, nobody here said it was.

If overlighting is not a good thing then I guess adding off road lighting is popular in the off road community because it looks cool or maybe it is actually a necessity in able for off road drivers to see the ground in front of them?

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Actually, yes, many people make modifications to their vehicle that are more for "looks" than anything else. As an avid off-roader myself, additional foreground-light is beneficial when driving at slow speed(ex: rock-crawling). For high-speed off-road(ex: desert racing) or on-road driving, the additional foreground-light negatively impacts your ability to see at a distance. This is not up for debate as it is not an opinion of myself nor of anybody else, it is a fact, based on how the human optical system works.

There are many different types of lights, for different many different applications, it's important to use the right tool for the job! You wouldn't try fastening a bolt with a hammer, now would you?

I have tried it both ways and I will stick with my all on mod thanks. However, since the subject has come up, I have started reading discussions about overlighting the foreground in order to educate myself on the issue. Seems to me overlighting is an issue for a photographer but not for a driver. For the present however, I have no plans to change my setup.

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Then you need to read more, from people who actually know what they're talking about.

If you want to actually improve the lighting system on your vehicle, there are proper(safe, legal, effective) ways to do that:

- Ensure that you are using OEM headlamps and that they are clean and not significantly hazed.
- Upgrade your headlight wiring system as described here.
- Install high-quality bulbs: HIR1 for high-beam, these for low-beam.
- Install a set of auxiliary "driving-lights" from a reputable company(Bosch Cibie, Hella, JW Speaker, etc.)

Before installing any auxiliary lights, check your state laws as some restrict how many and what types of lights may be used on the road. Also, any auxiliary driving-lights should be only be used alongside your high beams, when appropriate, wired such that they automatically deactivate when the high beams are shut-off.

Good luck,

Mike

Re: Silverado light upgrade

Inspector71 said:

Respectfully disagree! I can't quote any experts or site any studies

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...which means you're choosing to be willfully ignorant and misinformed. That's unfortunate; a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

I can testify from personal experience

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No, it only feels like you can. See here.

I could care less about potential glare to oncoming drivers by my use of HIR2 bulbs in the HBs and Fogs

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You said you put HIR1s and HIR2s. That would be HIR1s in the high beams and HIR2s in the low beams. You don't mention what bulbs you have in the fog lamps. HIR2 bulbs in the low beams of the headlamps of your truck produce unsafe and illegal levels of glare to other drivers. Those laws are in place specifically to deal with people who take a babyish, "me first, screw you, I could care less about other drivers" attitude. Your lights affect everyone else on the road, and the lighting modifications you're bragging about here are illegal and/or unsafe. Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating illegal or dangerous activity.

they are never lit when any traffic is present.

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Your low beams are never lit when any traffic is present? That doesn't sound right.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

Was GM the only manufacturer to have dedicated lamps for driving and pass beams, and turn off the passing beam when driving beam is on? I can't recall seeing any other other makers' vehicles doing the same in recent years...

The ones I see most doing this are Saturns, and the Chevrolet/GMC GMT platform truck/SUVs.

Re: Silverado light upgrade

There have been others from Ford and Chrysler, and perhaps from other makers as well.