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Thread: Opus BT-C3100 2.2-Comparison-New and Exchanged.

  1. #91

    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    I am not all surprised with those close results between the Opus and MC3000, as I posted elsewhere, I once tested the Opus versus my iCharger and the difference was 8 mAh, out of the same cell tested, a Panasonic 2900mah.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    I am not all surprised with those close results between the Opus and MC3000, as I posted elsewhere, I once tested the Opus versus my iCharger and the difference was 8 mAh, out of the same cell tested, a Panasonic 2900mah.
    But one should be surprised given that others have reported results that imply their Opus BT-C3100 capacity results are 10% high. It would be interesting to know the primary source of the error, e.g. inconsistent charge levels, imprecise calibration/components of the Opus, etc.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #93

    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    But one should be surprised given that others have reported results that imply the Opus capacity is 10% high. It would be interesting to know the primary source of the error, e.g. inconsistent charge levels, imprecise calibration/components of the Opus, etc.
    cpa and I have reported OUR observations, you cannot argue with that. As admitted, the Opus, and the other chargers here in Cpf, are NOT laboratory-grade nor NASA-approved electronics gadgets so I personally don't expect laboratory-grade specs. Let the others say their piece by posting here too.

    If the others have reported different readings than ours, what's the big hullabaloo?

  4. #94
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    If the others have reported different readings than ours [...]
    As you surely know (being the organizer of an Opus BT-C3100 group buy), just like above, many Opus Bt-C3100 users have reported that the capacity readings are often quite high, up to 10% or more. So when a couple users report otherwise, it would be interesting to know if this is merely a fluke, or if there is something more interesting behind it. Given that the Opus engineer Henry Xu has mentioned 5% figures a couple times, I would suspect that the larger capacity errors are to be expected (though one might get luckier in rare cases).
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 08:12 AM.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Opus do pwm discharge with about 3A current and terminates at 2.8V or 3.xV (Sorry I cannot remember the voltage) depending on model.
    SkyRC discharges with constant current at selected level and stops at selected voltage.

    In some cases they will show the same value, in other there will be huge differences.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  6. #96
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    Opus do pwm discharge with about 3A current and terminates at 2.8V or 3.xV (Sorry I cannot remember the voltage) depending on model.
    SkyRC discharges with constant current at selected level and stops at selected voltage.

    In some cases they will show the same value, in other there will be huge differences.
    No doubt the pwm (vs CC) charging will introduce some error. But it is not clear that this is the primary source of the error. Another possibility is that (under certain conditions) the Opus is charging the cells more fully (in which case its capacity readings are not necessarily erroneous). Unless someone does a carefully controlled test we can only speculate.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 08:31 AM.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    I keep it simple. Mine has been as close as 1% to 3%[VTC5/VTC6] off HKJ numbers. Other ~ 10% high.

    When they seem high I just estimate ~ 7% off.

    I have said this many times. It is NOT hard at all to tell when the battery is getting weaker. My Run times decline and when I check voltages after a charge and especially after it rests several hours later, a 4.08v/09v ect is a good enough indication for me.Actually it is a better indication than the capacity tests the Opus does. The Opus tests are fun and give a general analysis.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  8. #98
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    No doubt the pwm (vs CC) charging will introduce some error. But it is not clear at all that this is the primary source of the error. Another possibility is that the Opus is charging the cells more fully (in which case its capacity readings are not necessarily erroneous). Unless someone does a carefully controlled test we can only speculate.

    I was not talking about charging, but about discharging.
    The way the two chargers discharge will affect the result, especially with older batteries (With high internal resistance the voltage will drop much more at each discharge pulse).

    If the tested 2200mAh battery was 2200mAh, that is about the best battery to compare with. Capacity will be at a fairly high voltage, i.e. differences in termination voltage and drops due to 3A current is not very significant for the result.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    I was not talking about charging, but about discharging [...]
    Of course. But it is important to emphasize that charging plays an essential role too. If the Opus is charging to higher capacity than the MC3000, then its discharge test will report higher capacity. In controlled tests one can eliminate possible charging differences by performing all charges on the same device (and slot) - preferably the most precise / consistent one available.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Of course. But it is important to emphasize that charging plays an essential role too. If the Opus is charging to higher capacity than the MC3000, then its discharge test will report higher capacity. In controlled tests one can eliminate possible charging differences by performing all charges on the same device (and slot) - preferably the most precise / consistent one available.
    My Opus charges ALL batteries to 4.15v. I already DID the slot test with Two different batteries[your suggestion] and no comment by you!! lol!

    Your comments are contradictory to EVERYONE! That says a lot right there!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  11. #101
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    My Opus charges ALL batteries to 4.15v. I already DID the slot test with Two different batteries[your suggestion] and no comment by you!! lol!
    What "comments" did you expect? You ran the tests I suggested and obtained the results that I expected you would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    Your comments are contradictory
    How can nonexistent comments be "contradictory"? Please be more precise. What do you believe is "contradictory"?
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 10:11 AM.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    What "comments" did you expect? You ran the tests I suggested and obtained the results that I expected you would.



    Vague comments like that are not constructive. Precisely what do you believe is "contradictory"?
    Keep it simple Gauss!

    Look at your history on here and BLF. Maybe I should of added a few more words like argumentative,combative and challenging,,,to EVERYONE that is willing to debate you!

    I have observed this and witnessed this as many others have.

    I do not say these things because I want to put someone down. I say them because I[and others] have witnessed this many times and I am very observant, open, honest and DIRECT!

    I am your average Joe when it comes to Flashlight/battery knowledge.

    I excel in Human behavior and detecting the defects of character that can be associated with that.

    With that said it does not take a rocket scientist to see the patterns[so predicable] that develop between you and just about everyone you encounter.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  13. #103
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    @Gauss,

    Sorry if I was vague. Here is a precise example.

    Look at post # 28 and your comments.

    It is NOT what you say it is How you say it!

    You criticize and pick apart what has been and still is a SUCCESSFUL way of charging and maintaining my batteries. You will find any detail in YOUR mind that will contradict or belittle someone else's experiences.

    You are a master at justifying and rationalizing something into your way of thinking which you think is absolute!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  14. #104
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    Keep it simple Gauss!
    Some matters (e.g. battery electrochemistry) are, alas, innately complex. If you're not interested in more technical posts then you can simply ignore them (which will yield longer calendar and cycle life for your CAPS key!)

    In any case when, as in post #28, someone informs you that something you guessed was wrong, it would be more constructive to interpret that feedback in the positive way that it was intended - to give you useful information that can improve your Li-ion experience - rather than construing it in the most negative way that you can possibly imagine.

    There is much misinformation on the web about Li-ion tech. The more we can help to educate each other the more we can work around that. If we were afraid to correct misinformation for fear it might offend someone we'd all probably be cluelessly happily using 100000mAh Ultrafire cells. Thankfully we're not.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 12:20 PM.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Like I said: You are a master at justifying and rationalizing something into your way of thinking which you think is absolute!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  16. #106
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    @Gauss163

    Final thoughts on this.

    You ONLY respond to what you WANT to respond to[Control]. Typical behavior of those who are in denial of their actions.

    ,,,,Moving forward
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  17. #107
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Happy battery charging Wednesday too all

  18. #108
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Offgridled View Post
    Happy battery charging Wednesday too all
    How do you charge your batteries? Are you doing it correctly and according to standards?!

    Whose standards? What standards? Can we have our own standards and still be happy and have fun?!!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  19. #109
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    SLOT COMPARISON ANALYSIS-DISCHARGE/CAPACITY RESULTS

    Device: Opus BT-C3100 2.2

    Battery:Keeppower 18650 3400mAh Protected

    Purchased:January 20,2015

    Discharged @ 1amp

    Cycles:152


    Slot #1-3196mAh
    Slot #2-3304mAh
    Slot #3-3288mAh
    Slot #4-3271mAh

    Largest margin between slots: 108mAh-slots #1 and #2.


    Slot Median:3264mAh

    HKJ: 1AMP DISCHARGE=3211mAh


    My Slot Median is 1.7% higher than HKJ. Keep in mind my batteries are 2 years old w/ 152 cycles.


    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  20. #110
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    How do you charge your batteries? Are you doing it correctly and according to standards?!

    Whose standards? What standards? Can we have our own standards and still be happy and have fun?!!
    My standards are extremely high. I spent 5 years in college on the correct charging process.

    I really appreciate your going thru this for us!!

  21. #111

    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Hey, I just went to bed and missed the excitement.

    Anyway, has anyone tried this? Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?

    I accidentally did it and was surprised there was some more mAh (about 80mah, IIRC) left before it goes 'done'. I know this capacity left (and even the 5% differences) won't matter much in real flashlight use (as these numerical differences are completely wiped out a few seconds after flashlight turn-on), but for some members who are into this game, what then is the real discharge capacity, the first one or should we add the second result?

    Alas, this is just a sound-off from me and I actually don't really care about these numbers as much as I used to, of which it was during my first foray into this hobby years ago and acquired my iCharger and started breaking laptop packs. Man, that was the real exciting part. With brand-new cells, not much suspense anymore.

  22. #112
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    Hey, I just went to bed and missed the excitement.

    Anyway, has anyone tried this? Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?

    I accidentally did it and was surprised there was some more mAh (about 80mah, IIRC) left before it goes 'done'. I know this capacity left (and even the 5% differences) won't matter much in real flashlight use (as these numerical differences are completely wiped out a few seconds after flashlight turn-on), but for some members who are into this game, what then is the real discharge capacity, the first one or should we add the second result?

    Alas, this is just a sound-off from me and I actually don't really care about these numbers as much as I used to, of which it was during my first foray into this hobby years ago and acquired my iCharger and started breaking laptop packs. Man, that was the real exciting part. With brand-new cells, not much suspense anymore.

    I guess you can say that when I did my slot to slot comparison w/ the same cell. Starting with post #71[LGHG2] and then post # 80 w/ NCR18650B.

    They rested over night.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  23. #113

    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    I guess you can say that when I did my slot to slot comparison w/ the same cell. Starting with post #71[LGHG2] and then post # 80 w/ NCR18650B.

    They rested over night.
    You might have misread my post. I was saying that "Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?" , etc.

    I mean, I accidentally put a Discharged cell that has rested overnight for another discharge test.
    Last edited by tatasal; 03-15-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  24. #114
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    Anyway, has anyone tried this? Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?

    I accidentally did it and was surprised there was some more mAh (about 80mah, IIRC) left before it goes 'done'. I know this capacity left (and even the 5% differences) won't matter much in real flashlight use (as these numerical differences are completely wiped out a few seconds after flashlight turn-on), but for some members who are into this game, what then is the real discharge capacity, the first one or should we add the second result?
    Yes, there will usually be some residual capacity that was not accessible due to voltage drop from internal resistance/impedance. It will be minimal except at very high rates and/or very high IR. It is not counted in standard discharge tests (which by convention are terminated once the discharge reaches the termination voltage, even if there is much capacity remaining).

    For example, the 20A discharge below (lowest white curve) only drained about 67% capacity before it hit termination voltage = 2.8V. You can access the residual 33% using lower rate discharges (it would take many cycles to access most of it at the same high rate).



    Graph excerpted from here.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-15-2017 at 06:12 PM.

  25. #115
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    You might have misread my post. I was saying that "Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?" , etc.

    I mean, I accidentally put a Discharged cell that has rested overnight for another discharge test.
    Yes,,I stand corrected[misread],,,,,,I have not done that.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  26. #116

    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Yes, there will usually be some residual capacity that was not accessible due to voltage drop from internal resistance/impedance. It will be minimal except at very high rates and/or very high IR. It is not counted in standard discharge tests (which by convention are terminated once the discharge reaches the termination voltage, even if there is much capacity remaining).

    For example, the 20A discharge below (lowest white curve) only drained about 67% capacity before it hit termination voltage = 2.8V. You can access the residual 33% using lower rate discharges (it would take many cycles to access most of it at the same high rate).



    Graph excerpted from here.
    Ok, this means that unless a discharge rate is specified, then there is little to argue about discharge capacities.

  27. #117
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    Ok, this means that unless a discharge rate is specified, then there is little to argue about discharge capacities.
    But the OP specified the discharge rates, and correctly made comparisons at the same rates, so it is not clear what your point is.

  28. #118

    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    But the OP specified the discharge rates, and correctly made comparisons at the same rates, so it is not clear what your point is.
    I don't mean the op (and I know what the op means), but in general, discharge capacity topics. Sorry for not being specific enough, like a discharge rate I just mentioned , haha!
    Last edited by tatasal; 03-15-2017 at 08:23 PM.

  29. #119
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    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    You might have misread my post. I was saying that "Have you tried discharging AGAIN after a discharge test a cell that has rested overnight?" , etc.

    I mean, I accidentally put a Discharged cell that has rested overnight for another discharge test.
    lol!! I thought about this again!

    This is what I did, it just was NOT done accidentally. I discharged the SAME cell 4 X after resting over night. It was just done in different slots to see the comparison for consistency.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  30. #120

    Default Re: OPUS BT-C3100 2.2 CAPACITY/TEST RESULTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    lol!! I thought about this again!

    This is what I did, it just was NOT done accidentally. I discharged the SAME cell 4 X after resting over night. It was just done in different slots to see the comparison for consistency.
    Try lowering the discharge rates to 200ma and you will get higher mahs.

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