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Thread: Opus BT-C3100 2.2-Comparison-New and Exchanged.

  1. #31
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    @Capolini I presumed from your remark about longevity that you might be interested in the studies. If not then, as you note, often you can still get reasonable life even without paying any attention to such.

    When, as above, I supply links to the literature, they are not meant to be "challenging" but, rather, informative. There is much misinformation on the web about Li-ion technology, and part of the reason that I volunteer here and elsewhere is to help guide readers to more accurate information. Of course I do realize that not everyone is interested in more technical matters, but many of us do enjoy such - not only for optimizing Li-ion life etc, but also due to genuine curiosity about the underlying science (which can be quite enjoyable)

  2. #32
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    ^^^^

    Guess what Gauss163. I am not as technical as you!! I enjoy my hobby!

    According to you, for "having the worst possible management strategy" they sure have lasted long and are still doing well.

    80% of my lights are MODDED. When the batteries start getting weaker, for whatever reason, I am not worried about a few extra cycles,,,,,,,I just buy new batteries which are not that much these days!

    It is quite apparent that you like challenging people,,,even HKJ!

    I do not claim to have all this knowledge and am NOT interested in getting every spec out of a battery. I enjoy my hobby and am not going to let someone like you take the joy out of it!
    Yep, he sure likes challenging people and trying to sound like an expert. Don't let him stress you out Cap.

    Thanks for publishing your test results by the way Capolini, I appreciate your efforts.
    Last edited by Tachead; 03-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Cells and batteries are cheap and considered consumables. While I don't want to trash them sooner than I might, they don't cost a lot of money in the long run.

    It's like people cutting down a beer can and licking out the last few drops.

    Life's too short to be analyzing over some of this stuff, IMO.

    Chris
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachead View Post
    Worst possible strategy or not, look at the life he has got out of the cells. Over 4 years and 400+ cycles and only around a 5% drop in capacity. [...]
    It is impossible that they lost only 5% capacity in 400+ cycles over 4 years.

    In any case, as I remarked above, even if you ignore optimizations you can still get halfway-decent cycle/calendar life. Whether or not that suffices will be a very subjective decision - highly dependent on context (a matter orthogonal to my reply above).

    Though it appears that you are not interested in optimizations that could yield 50% increases in lifetime, many hobbyists do have an interest in such matters. Moreover, learning about the underlying science helps one to understand not only these matters but also diverse aspects of Li-ion batteries (e.g. safety issues), so it is quite a worthwhile endeavor.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-03-2017 at 02:57 PM.

  5. #35
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachead View Post
    Yep, he sure likes challenging people and trying to sound like an expert. Don't let him stress you out Cap.

    Thanks for publishing your test results by the way Capolini, I appreciate your efforts.
    My pleasure Tachead,,,,here are a few more simple minded tests for POST #5000!

    SOME OF MY 18350 IMR FROM OLDEST TO NEWEST:

    ALL WERE DISCHARGED @ 500mAh

    AW IMR 18350/5.1.2015/179 CYCLES/622mAh -Rated 800mAh

    EFEST IMR 18350/5.22.2015/#1-167 CYCLES-589mAh, #2-181 CYCLES-560mAh -Rated 700mAh -HKJ GOT 710mAh @500mAh

    KEEPPOWER IMR 18350/2.10.2017/#1-7 CYCLES -726mAh, #2-7 CYCLES-739mAh- Rated 750mAh-​HKJ GOT 711mAh @500mAh
    Last edited by Capolini; 03-04-2017 at 07:57 PM.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  6. #36
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGarrett View Post
    Cells and batteries are cheap and considered consumables. While I don't want to trash them sooner than I might, they don't cost a lot of money in the long run.

    It's like people cutting down a beer can and licking out the last few drops.

    Life's too short to be analyzing over some of this stuff, IMO.

    Chris

    +1
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    My pleasure Tachead,,,,here are a few more simple minded tests for POST #5000!

    SOME OF MY 18350 IMR FROM OLDEST TO NEWEST:

    ALL WERE DISCHARGED @ 500mAh

    AW IMR 18350/5.1.2015/179 CYCLES/622mAh -Rated 800mAh

    EFEST IMR 18350/5.22.2015/#1-167 CYCLES-589mAh, #2-181 CYCLES-560mAh -Rated 700mAh

    KEEPPOWER IMR 18350/2.10.2017/#1-7 CYCLES -726mAh, #2-7 CYCLES-739mAh- Rated 750mAh

    Thanks

  8. #38
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    +1

    +2

  9. #39
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    VTC5-6.7.2015-127 CYCLES-2598mAh TESTED AT 1 AMP. HKJ GOT 2575 @1 AMP .....almost identical readings!





    THIS SIMPLETON TESTING IS FUN!! LOL!
    Last edited by Capolini; 03-04-2017 at 07:48 PM.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    VTC5-6.7.2015-127 CYCLES-2598mAh





    THIS SIMPLETON TESTING IS FUN!! LOL!
    Thanks Capolini for posting real user tests

    Notice everything posted from Gauss163 is not from personal experience but a Cut and Paste.

  11. #41
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by swan View Post
    Thanks Capolini for posting real user tests

    Notice everything posted from Gauss163 is not from personal experience but a Cut and Paste.
    Thanks swan

    hmmm,, I never noticed that because I Gauss, I mean I Guess I never paid attention to his posts!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  12. #42
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    how you liking that little opus so far cappy ?
    its a nifty little deal aint it?
    i tried nitecore, xtar, and they didnt do the job as well as the opus
    sent them back and kept the opus
    still use mine often, alongside of the rc3000

  13. #43
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hahoo View Post
    how you liking that little opus so far cappy ?
    its a nifty little deal aint it?
    i tried nitecore, xtar, and they didnt do the job as well as the opus
    sent them back and kept the opus
    still use mine often, alongside of the rc3000
    I love it!! It is fun to do the discharge/capacity tests! Even if it is 5 or 10% off. Right now I am doing my V'POWER IMR 26650 4200. It just passed that rated capacity @ 3.40v mark.

    I will post those results when I am done,,,,,,then I am doing Efest 10440, then 4 year old NCR18650B AND 4 year old Orbtronic[NCR18650B]!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  14. #44
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    VAPPOWER IMR 26650 4200mAh-9.24.2016-47 CYCLES EACH

    BOTH DISCHARGED TO EXACTLY 2.80V @ 1A DISCHARGE RATE. I USE THESE IN MY U21vn. THEY WORK WELL!


    HKJ GOT 4336mAh @1Amp

    IT MAY BE A FEW mA high, HOWEVER,,,,,IIRC THIS CELL WAS UNDER RATED IN CAPACITY.I ACTUALLY USE THEM A MAX OF 20 MINUTES AND THEN PUT IN A FRESH CELL, BECUASE I LOVE MAX OUTPUT! WHEN I GET HOME THEY ARE ~ 3.88/3.90V!
    Last edited by Capolini; 03-04-2017 at 07:45 PM. Reason: ESSENTIAL INFO.!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!


    TWO OLDIES BY GOODIES! BOTH BATTERIES WERE DISCHARGED DOWN TO 2.80V. RATE: 1AMP

    ON LEFT: 2 X ORBTRONIC 18650 3400mAh/12.21.2012/271 CYCLES

    ON RIGHT: 2 X NCR18650B 3400mAh/2.15.2013/177 CYCLES



    I AM SORRY TO INFORM MY FANS THAT THERE WILL ONLY BE A FEW MORE TESTS UNTIL I NEED NEW BATTERIES!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  16. #46
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post

    ON RIGHT: 2 X NCR18650B 3400mAh/2.15.2013/177 CYCLES [3311mAh, 3368mAh]
    Given that HKJ got 3162mAh for new NCR18650B cells at 1A, it is likely that your Opus is reporting higher than true capacities (probably 5-10% high). But that's within the expected accuracy range for the Opus BT-C3100. To find out just how high it is you could test a new cell that others have tested on more accurate/precise devices.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-04-2017 at 04:23 PM.

  17. #47
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    ^^^^

    I understand what you are suggesting.

    For me it would not be worth it to buy a brand new cell that I DON'T need just for a capacity comparison for One test.

    I updated my posts. My comparisons to HKJ with the VTC5[me-2598mAh,HKJ-2575mAh] and VTC6 and a few other cells are pretty close.

    That tells me the accuracy of my Opus varies depending on the cells.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  18. #48
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    Default Re: BACK TO BASICS-SIMPLE,EFFICIENT AND DURABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Not true. Doing all your discharges in the highest possible voltage range and unbalanced around 50% SOC is not good. In fact it is the worst possible management strategy when it comes to maximizing health (esp. cycle life). For example if instead you balanced your capacity use around 50% by using capacity only in the range 75%-25% (vs. 100%-50%) then studies show that you may gain close to 50% cycle life, e.g. you might get 600 equivalent full cycles instead of 400 cycles before your cells degrade to 80% of their original capacity. For details see my post here, esp. the final graph.
    Gauss - I think you've missed the point of what flashlights are for! If people keep their cells between 25-75% charge, then they are usually missing out on the highest possible output from the flashlight, and will have less runtime available. Charging back up to 100% after use is probably the most sensible and practical management of flashlight cells, and if shortens the cells life, then just replace with the latest and greatest!

  19. #49

    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Given that HKJ got 3162mAh for new NCR18650B cells at 1A, it is likely that your Opus is reporting higher than true capacities (probably 5-10% high). But that's within the expected accuracy range for the Opus BT-C3100. To find out just how high it is you could test a new cell that others have tested on more accurate/precise devices.
    HKJ's cell is not the same cell that Capolini tested (of which we don't know how different your cells and the one tested by HKJ had lived its life, etc.) I remember my brand-new Panasonic NCR18650B bowed-out at 3350mah when tested in my BT-C3100.

    I will re-post what I posted in another thread here in CPF:


    Years ago, when I got my Opus BT-C3100 2.1, for the sake of comparison, (not accuracy) I tested its Discharge Capacity reading compared to my iCharger. (The iCharger is a highly-rated hobby charger among the RC forum guys, way up than SkyRC's B6, also in the same category, and the MC3000 was not around then)

    And just to minimize other variables that might influence the results, on both occasions, the charger I used to fully-charge the cell before each Discharge Test was my Xtar VP2.

    I used a brand-new Panasonic NCR18650PD, considered at that time one of the better high-drain 10A, 2900mAh cell around. Take note that I only used this one cell.

    I set the iCharger's Discharge terminal voltage the same with the Opus at 2.8V.

    The resulting difference on both Discharge Capacity test sessions between the 2.1 Opus and my iCharger was 8 mAh. If fact, I have posted these results with photos in the 'other' forum but unfortunately the photos were all erased when I cleaned up my Photobucket gallery.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Good quality 18650"s are $4-$5.
    Charge them fully, use them, then recharge them fully, using a decent charger.
    I even keep some fully charged as spares in case they are needed.
    So what if I don"t get the absolute maximum number of cycles out of them.
    If & when they start to fail I will get new cells which will probably be better than the cells they replace.
    Personally I don"t understand this molly coddling of cells.
    What do people do with their cordless power tool packs ?
    I suspect they charge them fully, use them then re-charge them fully & store them fully charged ready to be used the next time same as with any Li-ion powered appliance.
    It really doesn"t worry me whether I get say 200, 300, 400 cycles etc.
    All that concerns me really is that the cells are good quality & the charger used charges correctly.

  21. #51
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    ^^^^^

    I agree with you.

    I bought this charger to have fun w/ it and I have always liked numbers and statistics!

    With that said I still like the simplicity of my Fenix ARE-C2 and the fact that it charges the fastest and ALWAYS gives a full charge!

    p.s. I know it is NOT my computer! The site has been sloooowww the last several days w/ server errors from time to time!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post

    p.s. I know it is NOT my computer! The site has been sloooowww the last several days w/ server errors from time to time!
    No problems on our iMacs, iPads, or iPhones.

    Everything has loaded quick and no errors.

    You may need to update your network settings. Also if you're using a PC, maybe you have some viruses.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by seery View Post
    No problems on our iMacs, iPads, or iPhones.

    Everything has loaded quick and no errors.

    You may need to update your network settings. Also if you're using a PC, maybe you have some viruses.
    Possible but I doubt it,,,,,everything else opens up fine and instantly.
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  24. #54
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bella-headlight View Post
    Good quality 18650"s are $4-$5.
    Charge them fully, use them, then recharge them fully, using a decent charger.
    I even keep some fully charged as spares in case they are needed.
    So what if I don"t get the absolute maximum number of cycles out of them.
    If & when they start to fail I will get new cells which will probably be better than the cells they replace.
    Personally I don"t understand this molly coddling of cells.
    What do people do with their cordless power tool packs ?
    I suspect they charge them fully, use them then re-charge them fully & store them fully charged ready to be used the next time same as with any Li-ion powered appliance.
    It really doesn"t worry me whether I get say 200, 300, 400 cycles etc.
    All that concerns me really is that the cells are good quality & the charger used charges correctly.
    I will expand a little more on this without too much elaboration!

    I am not concerned if I get 200/300/400 ect. charge cycles. What I expect and have gotten w/ the quality cells that I use is at least 2 years of good performance in my modded lights. Regardless if that is 150 cycles or 400 cycles!

    "Molly coddling"!!,,,,,,,,I looked it up. It was what I expected it to mean!,over protective, to coddle[that's obvious!] or spoil.

    Similar to when my buddy use to say, "He has lived such a sheltered life"!

    So are you an Italian living in the UK or just like the Word "bella"?!....beautiful headlight.

    lastly, I am half Italian and been to Italy 3 times. My G'mom was One of Eight. Six lived b/w 97 and 103 w/ Three living OVER 100!!

    I KNOW THEIR SECRET!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  25. #55
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tatasal View Post
    HKJ's cell is not the same cell that Capolini tested (of which we don't know how different your cells and the one tested by HKJ had lived its life, etc.) I remember my brand-new Panasonic NCR18650B bowed-out at 3350mah when tested in my BT-C3100. [...]
    Of course they are not the exact same cell, but they are both the same model (NCR18650B). The OP's cells were old (177 cycles), and presumably HKJ's were almost new. But HKJ's new cells tested at 3162mAh at 1A, about 6% less than the OP's old cells = 3340mAh at 1A on the Opus BT-C3100.

    How else do you propose to explain that 6% difference (probably much higher given the huge age difference) other than inaccuracy of the Opus? We know HKJ is using equipment much more accurate and precise than the Opus, so the error is surely with the Opus, not HKJ's equipment. Iirc, Opus engineer Henry Xu claimed that they are not using high precision components or very accurate calibration, so 5-10% worst-case error for the Opus should not be too surprising. Note also the charge process can also play a role in the discharge results (e.g. the Opus could be overcharging them, so the OP's cells could be starting with higher capacity then HKJ's cells).

    In any case, all factors considered, you shouldn't expect much better for any budget analyzing charger. If you want greater accuracy/precision you'll need to pay more, e.g. the SkyRC MC3000. But most users do not need such, esp. if they are only using the analyzing feature to track the health of cells, since then all that matters is the relative difference in capacity, not the absolute values. And the relative differences should be more accurate (at least if you always use the same slot to avoid slot inconsistencies).
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-05-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    Hi Capolini my remark about "molly coddling" wasn"t aimed at you rather that there are often threads about how to get the most cycles from a cell & only charging to a certain voltage & only charging to a certain voltage.
    As good quality cells are so cheap & people don"t "molly coddle" other Li-ion powered things I personally cannot see the point where flashlight Li-ions are concerned.
    "So are you an Italian living in the UK or just like the Word "bella"?!....beautiful headlight."
    Neither, I tried to register as headlight, which is the user name I use on some other forums, but it wouldn"t let me as the name was already taken.
    Bella was the name of my old dog so I just put that with headlight.
    BTW I don"t think the forum problems I am encountering have anything to do with my end either.
    Non of the other forums I use have a problem, they are all lightening quick, it is just this one.
    Last edited by bella-headlight; 03-05-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  27. #57
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!


    This is a test of Four[4] Keeppower 18500 1700mAh cells[SANYO]. I bought the Light from another CPF member[jmpaul320]. The Four batteries came with it.

    I BOUGHT IT ON JULY 15TH, 2015. JUSTIN BOUGHT THE BATTERIES IN JULY OF 2014.THE BATTERIES IN SLOTS THREE[3] AND FOUR[4] WERE ONLY USED A FEW TIMES AND BASICALLY HAVE BEEN IN STORAGE[3.60V] FOR ALMOST TWO[2] YEARS.

    SLOTS #1 AND #2 ARE THE ONLY ONES I USED.

    SLOTS THREE[3] AND FOUR[4] REMAINED IN STORAGE UNTIL TODAY.

    I DID THE TEST TWICE BECAUSE SLOT #1 "READ" NULL @ 3.30V . SO IN MY SECOND TEST SLOTS ONE[1] AND THREE[3] READ NULL NEAR THE END OF THE TEST!! I REMOVED THE BATTERY IN #1 AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PHOTO.

    FOR WHATEVER REASON I BELIEVE THE "PROTECTION" TRIPPED. THE BATTERIES DID NOT REGISTER ON MY DMM AFTER SEVERAL TRIES, PUT IT IN MY FENIX ARE-C2 AND THEY CAME BACK TO LIFE!

    HKJ GOT 1619mAh @ 1amp. I ALSO DISCHARGED THEM AT 1 AMP.

    FINALLY!!! AT LEAST WE GOT TO SEE ONE USED FOR 20 MONTHS [SLOT #2] AND ONE TAKEN OUT OF HIBERNATION FOR THE LAST 32 MONTHS[SLOT #4]

    I ALWAYS LIKE TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A SIMPLE TEST!

    I DO IT FOR MY ENJOYMENT AND IF ANYONE ELSE GETS ANYTHING OUT OF IT THAT IS A BONUS.





    ​HKJ-1619mAh @ 1amp
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  28. #58
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    You might want to try swapping the cells between slots 2 and 4 and repeat. It's possible that only some of the slots are reading high (iirc some users have reported such).

  29. #59
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    ^^^^ Do not know what you mean? What does that have to do w/ the "NULL" message?

    Also slot 4 should have more capacity,,,it was never used and in storage!!!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    Default Re: FENIX AND OPUS:UNIFICATION, DEDICATION AND EDIFICATION!!!

    If you test the same cell in different slots then you can determine if only some of the slots are reading high (vs. HKJ), or all of them. And you can see how consistent they are.

    As for the NULLs, one of the recent changes in the BT-C3400 firmware was to raise the discharge termination voltage to avoid falsely tripping undervoltage protection. If you have an earlier version then that is likely the cause.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 03-05-2017 at 02:13 PM.

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