legal aftermarket headlamps? police officers, state inspection officials please help

razrburn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
5
I have a 2011 jeep wrangler, lifted with lots of modifications. My stock h13 halogen headlamps are covered in a haze of cracks in the plastic lens from old age. every few months of night driving another car doesn't see my black jeep and nearly side swipes or pulls out on top of me. yes I can goto the dealer and get a replacement headlamp but its oem quality is so terrible. I'd prefer install non oem I'm having issues identifying what constitutes as legal, how do I identify what a legal headlamp is. from what I understand sae or dot markings are not worth a grain of salt. I'm not looking to add hids or leds. I need to replace the aim adjustment bracket, so now is a good time for me to replace the headlights. I'm not looking for any kind of crazy brightness I have 5 offroad lights that light trails up so much it makes the headlights look like parking lights. any suggestions please, my state has a annual inspection, I dont want to fiddle with something once a year and get tickets the rest. i'm looking at hella #70477, i'd need to convert my oem h13 wiring to h4 but so far thats my closest match i've found, they say 50 state legal all over the box. any one have any input?
 

GaryM

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Warrenton, MO
Not a Jeep owner, but I'm going to guess that Virgil would recommend something from JW Speaker.
 

-Virgil-

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
7,802
There is a ton of illegal/unsafe junk that will fit in place of the original headlamps on your Wrangler. Of course, all of it is hawked in terms of being an "upgrade". Not the seller's problem when you run into legal problems. But you don't have to concern yourself with that junk, except to be careful to avoid it. There is a big variety of headlamps that will fit your Jeep and won't cause legal problems for you. Which ones to get depends on how much money you want to spend in exchange for how much headlight performance you get. Also, "legal" means different things in different places, and the meaning is not necessarily as obvious as it might seem (in either direction). What matters is what's legal in whatever state (or province, etc) is named on your license plates. The Hella 70477 is the best of the 7" round Hella headlamps, but you can get much better performance, in a legal headlamp, than the Hella 70477 offers.

If I were in your shoes I'd send an email to Daniel Stern and give him your particulars (how high the Jeep is lifted, where it's registered, where/how it's driven in what weather on what kinds of roads/trails, how much money is in the piggy bank for new lights, etc) and see what he recommends...then once that has trimmed down the options for you, if you're still in doubt, ask again in this thread.
 

-Virgil-

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
7,802
I have found,and I think the mods will agree, OEM headlight housings ARE superior to the aftermarket items.

I don't agree. The Jeep "JK" Wrangler original-equipment headlamps are cheap, low-po junk. They're legal, but that's about all that can be said in their favor.
 

Alaric Darconville

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 2, 2001
Messages
5,377
Location
Stillwater, America
My stock h13 halogen headlamps are covered in a haze of cracks in the plastic lens from old age. every few months of night driving another car doesn't see my black jeep and nearly side swipes or pulls out on top of me.

Those lamps must be starved for voltage-- it takes quite a bit of lens degradation to reduce your vehicle's conspicuity. Also, are your position lamps and sidemarker lamps still functioning? Unobscured by push bumpers/brush guards and the like? Or even auxiliary lamps bolted on in such a way that they block view of your position lamps?
 

razrburn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
5
Those lamps must be starved for voltage-- it takes quite a bit of lens degradation to reduce your vehicle's conspicuity. Also, are your position lamps and sidemarker lamps still functioning? Unobscured by push bumpers/brush guards and the like? Or even auxiliary lamps bolted on in such a way that they block view of your position lamps?

All my offroad lights are top of hood up all mounted to the a pillars, and the front bumper is a Ranchhand BTJ071BLR, while it doesnt block all the lights at any given angle and never whole light at once it might be part of the issue, but I could be a motorcycle just as easily, as no matter what I have one unobstructed light from whatever angle. My side marker light setup is 100% stock, 100% no interference there

On a stock 2011 Jeep Wrangler, Chrysler has force fed the h13's halogens with a pulse width modulated square wave, I've heard they only get about 8v in you measure with a meter. I'd say they seem starved, but I'm not a expert in automotive lighting to say if undervolting is to counter better modern reflectors. but these "superior jeep headlamps" cant seem to handle the heat of a voltage starved halogen bulb. and I don't have day time running lights, I'm sure some people had this worse. seems like a recall is needed.

I'm pondering getting some sealed beam units and making a new harness and giving them a non pwm signal. The 7in sealed units will mount up without issues and life in hours isnt as good. but i'd have a new lens every time I swap the bulb(unit), and they are commonly found for around 15$ ea at every local auto parts supplier. the older wrangler tj's used them. I saw a box by sylvania h6024 40w/60w, saying 50 state legal for road use. my h13's are 60w/55w but running under volted is probably cutting 30% of the brightness. some people might have concerns to me making a new wiring harness. I'll just mention I built electrical parts in f35's and osprey's, and even rewired boats(and wiring standards are tougher then rv's which you'll find on the road). Its funny how dropping back to headlights designed 40 years ago might get me better and safer results.

there was another product mentioned a few responses back by vigil i'm going to check that out, it could be a better option, i didn't look at it yet. I suppose anything is better the mounting a few dozen candles to the bumper:candle: .

Bill, I appreciate your input. I have a 16 year old truck with original plastic lenses without a crack, the bulbs have no pwm on it so im getting higher temp changes on the truck. some oem's build quality products. jeep wranglers are not quality products for durability, i'd expect my jeep's lenses to 99% structurally fail within 3 years if unchecked, i'm surprised it doesn't have water ingress yet.
bill, if you a jeep jk around the same age without lens cracking issues, it might make me rethink about oem a little there is the possibility of a bad batch, or chemical exposure. I'll also note my fog lights have the same issue, i'm less worried about them cause now they are protected from road debris by the ranchhand bumper.


:hahaha:"Its a jeep thing"
 

razrburn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
5
Those lamps must be starved for voltage-- it takes quite a bit of lens degradation to reduce your vehicle's conspicuity. Also, are your position lamps and sidemarker lamps still functioning? Unobscured by push bumpers/brush guards and the like? Or even auxiliary lamps bolted on in such a way that they block view of your position lamps?
update: I did find a side marker bulb blown, :wave: I'm a idiot! Those hella 70477 seems promising. I think I'll try that, thank you.
 

-Virgil-

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
7,802
On a stock 2011 Jeep Wrangler, Chrysler has force fed the h13's halogens with a pulse width modulated square wave, I've heard they only get about 8v

No, they get steady, clean, soft-start 12.8v. Which means the bulbs produce their rated output (output is rated at 12.8v) and 3.2x their rated lifespan (lifespan is rated at 14.0v).


my h13's are 60w/55w but running under volted is probably cutting 30% of the brightness

If your H13s were getting 8v like you think they are, they'd lose over 80% of their rated intensity. That is, they'd be putting out less than 20% of the light they're supposed to.

some people might have concerns to me making a new wiring harness.

It's not all that hard. Just be aware that it's going to boost your light output a lot less than it's going to shorten the bulb lifespan. With change in voltage, bulb output changes exponentially to the power +3.4, while bulb lifespan changes exponentially to the power -13 (negative 13).
 

Alaric Darconville

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 2, 2001
Messages
5,377
Location
Stillwater, America
On a stock 2011 Jeep Wrangler, Chrysler has force fed the h13's halogens with a pulse width modulated square wave, I've heard they only get about 8v in you measure with a meter.
If that were true, an H13 which is nominally 1100lm on the minor (low beam) filament would produce 223lm, and if they did the same thing on the high beam (they don't) it'd go from 1700lm to just 344lm. (On the other hand, it would theoretically last more than 1400 times as long as originally!
 

razrburn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
5
thanks guys, i'm really loving the idea of the hella's lights, digging into it I hear they have glass lenses and not plastic

virgil, yeah 8v. well "approximately 8v" technically it gets 14v then 0v but it gets 14v so shortly it averages 8v I'll stand by my about 30%, but if it was a constant 8v i'd say your probably right. most light filaments have a coil of filament that might act as a inductor so even when the tipm drops to 0 the magnetic field conversion is slowing the voltage drop at the bulb, similar how a arc welder can keep a weld going after shorting out Sorry, if I wasnt so clear before on the 8v more info here - http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/c...us-pwm-and-flickering-headlights-1054553.html

i'd like to avoid xenon cause I dont wanted to be hassled over the questionable legal lights especially if i'm traveling out of state it not like i'll drive back to try and prove in court. also seeing photos of the bumper, it is a great reminder how terrible a hid setup really can be for a jeep, ranch hands photo angle is about perfect in demonstrating the ability of a hidden hid projector. also hassle with my yearly state inspection. my limited knowledge wranglers never came with xenon in the usa, I suspect they had plans that never smoothed out(my door sticker say maybe factory equipped with xenon)they might have made a special edition equipped with them but a limited number might exist. i've heard of someone getting a used one with factory hids and he had issues that the dealer couldnt sort out. the car was a test car made by jeep to show at car shows, just before that model year went into full production. the dealer couldnt sort it out and customer had them switched to halogen. my very very limited understanding is xenon is a highly complicated animal to be street legal. I dont remember the exact details but I seem to remember its the motorized leveling. as cargo/or trailer is added it designed to prevent blinding on coming traffic, if your only adding a projector assembly, ballast ect, and drive up or down a hill how will it light the road properly or comply with law if it cant detect the angle the car is to the road, its mounting position can only tell it which way is down which isn't part of the equation unless your on a level road

About leds, a majority of the best offroad trails are in the mountains I'll point out 2017 wranglers have led lighting so there are official jeep parts for led's and with the less complexity then the requirements of xenon id suspect legal aftermarket options exist for leds. In my case where I'll find mountains i'll find snow a majority of the time, and many led headlamps have light illuminating from a smaller area then the whole reflector.


I'm going to order some hella lights, maybe i'll bust the oscilloscope out when I get a bit of time at installing them, and then we could get a real calculation going on how bad oem lights can be :). (thanks jeep, yeah the same company that discovered that the (Totally Integrated Power Module or TIPM) design was faulty, but kept installing them unmodified for several years. if by me changing headlight bulbs three times as often equals my armored black wrangler not driving over prius. It might also save me from, high insurance rates, paint damage to my skid plates:), and a future depressing life of alcoholism as I'd remember the worst day anyone can have when everyone cant walk away.
 

-Virgil-

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
7,802
thanks guys, i'm really loving the idea of the hella's lights, digging into it I hear they have glass lenses and not plastic

That is correct, they have glass lenses. Make sure you buy the correct ones; Hella makes several different lamps in this size, and the only one that is certified as DOT-legal is this one. They come with rather weak bulbs, so also buy a pair of these bulbs to go in them. And you will need wiring adaptors to plug the new lamps into your Jeep's wiring, that's these. These Hella lamps are not the best headlamps you can put in your Jeep, and they put out about the same amount of light as (new) factory headlamps, but you will probably find the light is distributed in a more useful pattern. And of course the lenses will be new instead of old.

virgil, yeah 8v.

No, it's not 8v by any measure. It's 12.8v, applied by means of pulse width modulation.

i'd like to avoid xenon cause I dont wanted to be hassled over the questionable legal lights

That's a reason to avoid illegal lights, not a reason to avoid Xenon lights. There are fully DOT-certified Xenon headlamps that fit your Jeep, unquestionably legal throughout the US, Canada, and Mexico.

i've heard of someone getting a used one with factory hids

Maybe you heard that, but it didn't actually happen. There are no Wranglers with factory HIDs in this or any other country.

understanding is xenon is a highly complicated animal to be street legal. I dont remember the exact details but I seem to remember its the motorized leveling

That is not correct. Levelling and lens cleaning systems are required on Xenon headlamps in Europe, but not in the USA.

2017 wranglers have led lighting

Available LED headlamps and fog lamps, yes.

id suspect legal aftermarket options exist for leds.

Yes, lots of good ones, including ones that have heated lenses to shed snow and ice (the available factory LED headlamps do not have heated lenses, which is probably going to be a problem.)
 

Sadden

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
262
All of the reccomendations in here are oegal when installed and aimed correctly
 

Magio

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
250
There are fully DOT-certified Xenon headlamps that fit your Jeep

Virgil, I dont want to nit-pick but I thought we had established DOT didnt certify headlamps.....or am I missing something here?
 

razrburn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
5
okay, lots of good info here. I learned something new on xenon's today. while they don't fit my application best, as that pesky metal bumper's bull bar might have a easier time hiding a xenon projector verse's the whole reflector that fraction of a second at the right angle if I stay with halogen technology. but its good info for anyone else as unaware as me. When I get around to this upgrade i'll snag the scope out and post the photo up, it should clarify whats happening, no doubt it benefits the bulbs life, pwm can be a variety of speeds and not always 50/50 so without knowing the exact numbers when and how long we can only spit ball at the very moment.
 

-Virgil-

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
7,802
Virgil, I dont want to nit-pick but I thought we had established DOT didnt certify headlamps.....or am I missing something here?

DOT does not approve items of vehicle equipment. There's no such thing as "DOT approved". Under the US system, the manufacturer or importer of vehicle equipment certifies that the equipment complies with the regulations. The "DOT" mark on a headlamp signifies the maker's certification.
 

Magio

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
250
DOT does not approve items of vehicle equipment. There's no such thing as "DOT approved". Under the US system, the manufacturer or importer of vehicle equipment certifies that the equipment complies with the regulations. The "DOT" mark on a headlamp signifies the maker's certification.

Ah gotcha. There's a difference between approved, and certified I see.
 

Charley3

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
26
I am a 99 Jeep Cherokee XJ owner. If you want general headlight advice this forum is great. If you want Jeep specific advice I suggest you PM Mschi77something at this forum or at Jeepforum.com or Cherokeeforum.com because he knows a lot specifically about Jeep headlights.

Having said the above, I'll give you my thoughts below.

All the housings I mention below are glass (no plastic).

DOT rated housings are legal in USA and decent, but not great. ECE rated housings are legal in Europe and most of the world. IMO ECE are much better for focusing the low and high beam, especially the high-beam.

IME with Hella DOT housings the low beam was focused adequately. I was satisfied with DOT spec Hella lamp housing's low-beam (with the excellent Philips XtremeVision +100 bulbs), but I was NOT happy with the poorly focused high-beam that was weak because it wasn't possible to focus/aim it very well.

Hella also makes Hella ECE housings, but I never tried them. So I don't know how good they are. I do know they are hella expensive. Cibie ECE are expensive too, but less costly than Hella ECE (at least that I've seen). I think Cibie is just as good (perhaps better).

So I got Cibie ECE rated housings. The low and high beams are both much better focused. The improvement in low beam focus doesn't matter much to me since I can see fine on low-beams with DOT or ECE housings, but the ECE low-beam pattern is much kinder to oncoming drivers. The ECE high-beam is much better because it's better focused and where I need it. It's possible to aim headlights very well with ECE housings.

Cibie makes very good ECE housings and I recommend them. Make sure you get housings for right hand traffic. That means for driving on right hand side of the road (like we do in North America). I'm assuming you live in North America.

For a good bulb, IMO the Philips XtremeVision +100 is the best there is for stock wattage (stock wiring) and arguably the best even with upgraded wiring. That's my opinion based on research and experience. I have tried Philps XtremeVision Plus +130 and don't like them as well because their color is whiter than I prefer for wet weather, and it's high beam doesn't seem to me any brighter than the +100.

When buying PXV+100 bulbs, buy from a reputable source (typically not Amazon or Ebay) so you get the real thing, and not some counterfeit Chinese junk. I buy from Daniel Stern Lighting or from CandlePowerInc (no relation to this forum). I've been ripped on on Ebay and Amazon and don't trust either of them.

Many other CandlePower forum members here are more experienced than I am and probably know of many reputable sources for good legitimate light housings and bulbs. Hopefully they will suggest to you where to buy from. I will be interested in reading their suggestions.

P.S. - ECE housings are preferable (over DOT) for their better beam focus, if your state won't be inspecting and griping about using ECE housings. I don't know how inspections are in other states. I'm in Washington and we don't have inspections in WA or OR. So I use ECE and don't have to think about inspections.
 
Last edited:

Charley3

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
26
I have found,and I think the mods will agree, OEM headlight housings ARE superior to the aftermarket items.

Not on Jeeps 2006 and older. They came with sealed beam headlights. At least that's true for Wranglers and Cherokees. Not sure about the other models.

I don't know what 2007+ Jeeps came with. Maybe Jeep finally modernized the headlights and stopped using sealed beam?
 
Top