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Thread: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

  1. #1

    Default LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Would Philips 1157R led and Sylvania 1157A amber LED be legal for rear red lenses and front clear lenses respectively?
    Canadian Tire carries both the above and from what I've heard the Philips 1157R has a clear difference between low and high power modes.
    No feedback about the Sylvania Zevo.

  2. #2

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Would Philips 1157R led and Sylvania 1157A amber LED be legal for rear red lenses and front clear lenses respectively?
    Not necessarily, and it can't be predicted. The difficulty with all LED bulbs, even the brand-name ones, is that unlike a filament bulb they don't work correctly in every/any lamp designed to take a particular kind of bulb. A filament 1157 works correctly in any/every lamp designed to take 1157 bulbs, but an 1157 LED, from any maker, doesn't necessarily. You can do a crude homespun test in your particular lamps by comparing them, side-by-side, with the original incandescents as described in this post, but that still doesn't tell you if the lamps perform legally/safely because it's a subjective, by-eye kind of guess, but the go/no-go standards for safe and legal performance are objectively specified and measured.

    from what I've heard the Philips 1157R has a clear difference between low and high power modes.
    Yes, but that's not anywhere near enough to mean it's safe, effective, and legal.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    I don't have a light meter, so I did the "walk around" test with a new incandescent 1157 vs the Philips 1157R LED here - https://www.amazon.ca/Philips-1157-I.../dp/B00P2D415KThey seem very similar, seen through cleaned but 26 year old tail lamp lenses. Reflection & brightness appeared to be the same, and the difference between low wattage & high wattage was as clearly differentiated with the LED as it was with the 1157 incandescent.The difference was the "response time" of the LED - was instant & bright.Will stepping up from the 1157 incandescent to the 2357 incandescent, despite the shorter service life, gain me any useful brightness?The ones I'd like to test on the front are these amber bulbs - http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...ngeSearch=true
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    The difference was the "response time" of the LED - was instant & bright.Will stepping up from the 1157 incandescent to the 2357 incandescent, despite the shorter service life, gain me any useful brightness?
    You'll lose that rise time-- the rise time is longer for the 2357 vs. the 1157. And if you have any voltage sag at all, that rise time goes up and the intensity goes down. I think the LED is way to go.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    So LED, 1157, 2357 in that order would be preferred, assuming the 1157 amber Sylvania are on par with the Philips 1157R ?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What I found on the shelf today in a major auto parts store

    Upgrade path for front lights depends on what kind of car you're working on. I usually skip 2357 and go directly to 3496 (the real Stanley ones from Honda, not the junk sold at the parts stores), because it's brighter and longer-lasting than 2357. Whether LED would be an OK option in front depends (also) on what kind of car you're working on. It might be a "no go" right from the start, and if it's not, you'd have to do the side-by-side test again up front.

  7. #7

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    These ring a bell, I believe I had them on an older Dodge truck in place of 1157 on all 4 corners.

    They don't make an amber 3496 do they?

    The 1157A and 1157R are for a 91.5 Dodge W250
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What I found on the shelf today in a major auto parts store

    The Zevo 1157A will probably work in that truck's front lights, and the red ones or the Philips Xtremes will probably work better in the brake lights than the lower-output Philips ones you probably tried. The white Philips bulbs will work well in the reversing (back-up) lights.

  9. #9

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Virgil - thx. Just ordered the amber Sylvania Zevo after reading your reply.

    Funnily enough, the Philips Extreme red is what I bought for the rear.

    I see the Zevo is rated .4/1.5 but the Philips doesn't publish wattage (I garbaged the package).

    I'm tempted to pick up the red Zevo to compare, unless you think I'm splitting atoms.

    I use the Philips Extreme white LED you linked to in my backup sockets along with a Philips 921 Extreme in the cargo lamp, these I picked up and installed last spring/summer, no complaints at all.

    Got to protect the BK/YL wiring integrity and the old Dodge headlamp switch :-)

    No strange flashing speeds with the existing Tridon EM flasher relay btw - hope it stays the same after the Zevo front ambers.

    I kept the side flashers incandescents - but replaced their 194s as well as the cab clearance 194s with 168 incandescents.

    I've been running Trucklite phase 7s these past 3 years or so - picked up a set of RHT ECE Trucklites a couple months back so I could wire the city lamps to the ignition circuit. The ECE beams seem slightly less white (I find this good) than the US spec, but the high beam doesn't seem quite as punchy.

    Could just be a lamp alignment issue - I must be one if the rare few that find ECE lamps hard to adjust despite following Stern's instructions.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Funnily enough, the Philips Extreme red is what I bought for the rear.
    Then you should be good to go.

    I'm tempted to pick up the red Zevo to compare, unless you think I'm splitting atoms.
    It'll probably perform about the same overall, but with a dark spot in the middle instead of a dark band across the reflector. But if you're curious enough to try it, go for it and share what you see!

    Got to protect the BK/YL wiring integrity and the old Dodge headlamp switch :-)
    BK/YL? If I were reading a wiring diagram I would interpret that as "Black/Yellow", but I'm not sure how it fits here.

    I kept the side flashers incandescents - but replaced their 194s as well as the cab clearance 194s with 168 incandescents.
    The cab clearance lights would be best off with these. The side marker lights would be best with 2886X (85 lumens) or 3652 (75 lumens) instead of 168 (45 lumens) or 194 (30 lumens). Those side markers are wired into the turn signal circuit, if I remember correctly, so the extra-bright 2886X or 3652 would make the side flashing function valuable in bright daylight, too, not just at night.

    picked up a set of RHT ECE Trucklites a couple months back so I could wire the city lamps to the ignition circuit.
    That's really not a correct way to do it. They're not daytime running lights, they're parking lights, far too dim to be effective (or legal) as a DRL. If you want a DRL function, put in a DRL module.

    The ECE beams seem slightly less white (I find this good) than the US spec
    Odd, should be same.

    but the high beam doesn't seem quite as punchy.
    Definitely odd. The high beam is identical on the US and ECE versions of the Truck-Lite LED headlamps.

    Could just be a lamp alignment issue - I must be one if the rare few that find ECE lamps hard to adjust despite following Stern's instructions.
    For use on US roads they should be set to the "VOL" specs, not to the lower European specs. And it really should be done with an optical headlamp aiming machine, not a shine-on-wall guesswork attempt.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  11. #11
    kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    The cab clearance lights would be best off with these. The side marker lights would be best with 2886X (85 lumens) or 3652 (75 lumens) instead of 168 (45 lumens) or 194 (30 lumens).
    Thanks for posting these figures; helps with the decision making process, but I think I'll wait for it to stop raining before I get started.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  12. #12

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Ah. BK/YL is the power feed wire to all exterior lamps that usually melts or burns out the headlamp switch in the 88-93 Dodge trucks.

    I tried amber LED bulbs in the cab clearance lamps, but they looked yellow rather than orange...wouldn't want to be mistaken for a newer Ford with LEDZ everythang.

    If I could find LEDs in 194, 3652 and 1157 that all outputted the same hue of orange, I would go that route for cab, side marker (both amber lenses) & front signal lamps (clear lenses).

    Duly noted about the DRL module.

    Yes, the ECE Trucklites are a softer shade of white than I prefer. Perhaps the difference between 2 month old versions & my 3 year old US Trucklites? Another member on here noticed the difference with his ECE Trucklites as well.

    I'm fairly certain I need to re-align the headlamps. I'll recheck the VOL settings, and try to find someone with an optical aiming machine.

    If the Zevo amber 1157s are the wrong hue, whats the best alternative to the 1157NA incandescent for the front signal lamps? 3496 Honda available in amber?

    Now I'm off to try & find a couple 3652 bulbs for the side markers....
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    I tried amber LED bulbs in the cab clearance lamps, but they looked yellow rather than orange...wouldn't want to be mistaken for a newer Ford with LEDZ everythang.
    Up to you, but the color was perfectly fine (functionally and legally) with the LEDs.

    If I could find LEDs in 194, 3652 and 1157 that all outputted the same hue of orange
    I can't think why this matters unless you spend much time staring at your truck with its lights on and have OCD or some other condition that makes it extremely important to you that all amber lights on the truck are exactly the same shade of amber.

    I would go that route for cab, side marker (both amber lenses)
    If you put LEDs in your side markers, you will have problems. The side markers are wired across front position (parking) light and turn signal feeds so they provide steady light whenever the position lights are on, and also flash with the turn signals. This depends on current flowing equally both directions through the side marker bulb (and, come to think of it, through the front position light filament). This is fine with filaments, which work no matter which way current flows. LED stands for light emitting DIODE, and a diode passes current only one direction. To keep everything working correctly, you will need to change the side marker wiring: find the wire that's presently connected to the turn signal feed, cut it, and connect the "socket" end of that wire to ground. Tape off the "truck" end of the cut wire. Then LED front turn signals and/or side markers will work without problems, but the side markers will no longer flash with the turn signals. That's not legally required, but it is a good crash-avoidance feature; you can reinstate it by using a logic module as described here.

    Yes, the ECE Trucklites are a softer shade of white than I prefer
    Household light bulb packaging notwithstanding, there is no such thing as "soft" (or crisp, or smelly, or delicious, or melodious, or unctuous, or creamy...) white light. Also, I'm confused; in post #105 you say you like the warmer white, but here you say you don't.

    If the Zevo amber 1157s are the wrong hue
    They aren't. They're the right hue.

    whats the best alternative to the 1157NA incandescent for the front signal lamps? 3496 Honda available in amber?
    No, it is not. At that point you'd be looking at something like a 2357A or 2357NA. Brighter, but short life and rapid blackening, and way too short a life to be compatible with DRL operation.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Hue/color/OCD aside, whats your take on 796 35w bulbs? More useful light throw/pattern than the Philips white LED 1156?

    This should read - "Yes, the ECE Trucklites are a softer shade of white, THAT I prefer".

    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: What I found on the shelf today in a major auto parts store

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    Hue/color/OCD aside, whats your take on 796 35w bulbs? More useful light throw/pattern than the Philips white LED 1156?
    Depends on the lamps and wiring. Try and see.

  16. #16

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    All wiring upgraded to 12ga, 91 Dodge truck taillamp lenses (NOS).
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  17. #17
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    All wiring upgraded to 12ga, 91 Dodge truck taillamp lenses (NOS).
    Upgrading wiring is great, so long as you're getting decent voltage. Assuming you're getting about 13.5V on a loaded circuit, the 35W 796 will probably outperform the LED for the simple reason that its "bare" output is identical to an 1156, except a lot higher intensity (it's a nominal 780lm vs the 1156's 402lm.). The LED devices sometimes make their own shadows, so to speak, and don't always work so well in some fixtures; the 796 is free of those concerns.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Thx! Just picked 4 up a few minutes back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Upgrading wiring is great, so long as you're getting decent voltage. Assuming you're getting about 13.5V on a loaded circuit, the 35W 796 will probably outperform the LED for the simple reason that its "bare" output is identical to an 1156, except a lot higher intensity (it's a nominal 780lm vs the 1156's 402lm.). The LED devices sometimes make their own shadows, so to speak, and don't always work so well in some fixtures; the 796 is free of those concerns.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    So I installed Evolution 8900s a couple hours back...level surface, 25', half tank/4 corners bounced etc, visually aimed (they say VOR on the lenses).

    3" below headlamp centerline (my headlamp centers are 45" off the floor) - but do I consider the headlamp centers as "the center of the top half" since thats where the low beam LED is located? Or would the headlamp center be the "true center" of the headlamp face?

    Off hand, the low beams seem as useful as the ECE Trucklite, and the high beams seem on par with the US Trucklites - quite pleased.

    After aligning the low beams, the high beams seem way too high (on the aiming wall, at least). Wonder if thats deceptive and whether that translates into correct high beam pattern on the road.

    Despite being higher amp units, the JWS wires are quite a bit smaller gauge than the Trucklites....
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofelas View Post
    So I installed Evolution 8900s a couple hours back...level surface, 25', half tank/4 corners bounced etc, visually aimed (they say VOR on the lenses).
    I've never figured out why JW Speaker considers this a VOR headlamp, but that's their choice. You get a compliant beam out of these whether you aim it VOL or VOR, but the resultant aim isn't the same. If you're not completely pleased with how the VOR aim worked out, you might try the VOL, remembering you have to aim with respect to the left-side cutoff for VOL (right-side cutoff for VOR).

    but do I consider the headlamp centers as "the center of the top half" since thats where the low beam LED is located? Or would the headlamp center be the "true center" of the headlamp face?
    It's the optical axis mark, which is the round spot directly below the upper projector lens.

    After aligning the low beams, the high beams seem way too high (on the aiming wall, at least)
    You shouldn't be using an "aiming wall", you should be using [a shop that has] an optical aiming machine.

    Despite being higher amp units, the JWS wires are quite a bit smaller gauge than the Trucklites....
    2.6A on high beam, 2.2A on low beam...that's about 34w max, doesn't need much wire.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    ...you should be using [a shop that has] an optical aiming machine...
    And then you need to find a tech who knows how to use the machine, and will take the time to do a proper job.

    You face a similar challenge getting new replacement tires properly match-mounted and properly balanced.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post


    . . . there is no such thing as unctuous white light.
    I would TOTALLY buy unctuous white light bulbs!
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    After aiming them as per the true headlamp centers, VOL, its a totally different headlamp.

    I like these so much that I picked up a second pair a few days back for another truck, but my neighbor/buddy wanted that truck & finally grabbed it.

    Boxed Evo 8900's with 30 minutes of aim/align time on them anyone?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    So - DRL-1 module questions.

    Right now , each side's front turn signal flashes alternate with the same side fender marker.

    If I install a DRL-1, would this continue or would the front turn signal and side marker for a given side flash together ?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    That depends on what you're trying to do with the DRL-1 module. Are you trying to put DRLs on the car, or trying to change the way the side lights operate? It's either/or, depending on how you hook it up.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: What I found on the shelf today in a major auto parts store

    To put DRLs on the vehicle.

    Would like to keep the flashing sequence stock.

    I don't know the technical terms for how they flash, is there a benefit to having the front flash at the same time as the side marker as opposed to front alternating with side?

  27. #27

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    All you have to do is hook up the module in a manner so it doesn't interfere with the sidemarkers. If you get it wrong, it will just mean the sidemarkers run full time together with the DRLs. The module has left and right "turn signal in" and "turn signal out" wires. On each side you cut the car's turn signal wire, then the "bulb" end of the cut wire connects to the module's "turn signal out" wire and the "car" end of the cut wire connects to the module's "turn signal in" wire. Just make sure you make that cut "below" the existing tap-in where the sidemarker wire connects to the turn signal wire. That is, as you follow the turn signal wire from the dashboard forward, you should first encounter the sidemarker tap-in, then the cut for the module install.

    As far as the alternate-flashing sidemarker: it's legal in North America, but pretty much everywhere else all turn signals (front, side, rear) have to flash in sync with each other, alternate-flash isn't allowed. The idea behind this is a reasonable one: with alternate-flash, from certain angles the turn signal is harder or impossible to see if the sidemarker is close to the turn signal. I'm thinking of the GM Safari/Astro vans as one example. Also, even if that's not the case, on/off flashing means "turn signal". Wig-wag flashing (as the alternating lamps appear from some angles) means "??????". It doesn't matter at angles where you can see only the front turn signal or only the sidemarker, but where you can see both, it makes at least theoretical issues.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Understood, so hook up near front turn signal before the bumper side Y going to side markers, unless you suggest the side markers run with DRLs.

    Next - which one do you suggest -

    http://www.rigidindustries.com/led-lighting/50481

    or

    http://www.jwspeaker.com/products/le...ts-model-6048/

    Seem to be somewhat comparable in output.

    These are higher, but is that necessarily "better" for fogs - http://www.rigidindustries.com/led-lighting/106612

    I do prefer the 5k color temp of the JWS over the 6k(?) temp of the Trucklite/Rigids, but I can live with a smaller hole to pop the rigid 50481 in ala frenched LOL.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    No, the sidemarkers should not run with the DRLs.

    Next - which one do you suggest
    If it's between those two, definitely the JW Speaker. But are you really sure you need fog lamps? Most drivers really don't.

    These are higher, but is that necessarily "better" for fogs - http://www.rigidindustries.com/led-lighting/106612
    Those aren't fog lamps, they're "driving" (aux high beam) lamps.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 03-14-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: LED or other upgrades for '91 Dodge Pickup

    Ok.

    1/ So splice DRL-1 close to the front signal lamps bumper side before the Y to side markers. Weatherproof mini box under battery tray for the module.

    2/ I found I don't "need" fog lamps with either TL or JWS headlamps, both with a healthy dose of carrots, but I gotz to keep up with the kool kidz. SAE "approved", of course.

    I already frenched in Rigid Dually ambers into the front bumper last year, so swapping them with the Rigid 50481 is a 15 minute bolt in to my MIG'd hidden bracketry + the same Deutsch plugs. The JSW fogs would require a horizontal bumper expansion cut, new plugs (the cheapskates only supply with bare wires) & new bracketry, and its all frozen permafrost out now).

    I figure some kind of SAE marking would preemptively placate the onroad enforcers, as this particular vehicle will be driven thus way more this year.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 03-13-2017 at 07:30 AM.

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