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Thread: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

  1. #1
    HKJ's Avatar
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    Default Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)



    Official specifications:
    • Standard discharge capacity: min. 3000mAh (1.5A charge 0.1A cut-off, 0.6A discharge, 2.5V cut-off)
    • Rated discharge capacity: min. 2650mAh (4A charge 0.1A cut-off, 10A discharge, 2.5V cut-off)
    • Nominal voltage: 3.6V
    • Charge voltage: 4.2V
    • Standard charge: 1.5A charge 0.1A cut-off
    • Rated charge: 4A charge 0.1A cut-off
    • Max. continuoys discharge: 35A at 25C
    • Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.5V
    • Cycle life: 250 cycles to 60% at 35A discharge.
    • Cell weight: 69.0g max
    • Cell dimension: Height: Max: 70.40mm, Diamter: max. 21.22mm
    • Operating temperature (surface): Charge 0C ~ 50C (Recommended <45C), Discharge -20C ~ 80C (Recommended <60C)
    • Storage temperature: 1 month: -20C ~ 60C, 3 months: -20C ~ 45C, 1 year: -20C ~ 25C




    This is the new battery size that is slightly larger than 18650 cells. This cell is a high current cell with moderate capacity.










    This battery can easily handle 30A and more with constant capacity and perfect tracking between the cells.
    I did try a 50A discharge, but my battery holder melted before I was finished with the first trace.





    The battery gets warm at 30A, but not too warm.



    In this discharge the battery is in free air, i.e. it has better cooling.















    Conclusion

    This battery is a very good battery and the best high current cell I have tested to date. At lower current there is no reason to use this cell, only when the current is above 10A is this cell interesting.



    Notes and links

    The batteries was supplied by ENERDan for review.

    My test stations is only equipped to handle up to 30A, this means higher current must be done on other equipment.

    How is the test done and how to read the charts
    How is a protected LiIon battery constructed
    More about button top and flat top batteries
    Compare to 18650 and other batteries
    Compare to 26650 and other batteries
    Last edited by HKJ; 03-24-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Interesting, thanks. I will be playing with your comparator.

    Any significance to the wrapper color? Your batteries have a grey wrapper, and the one from the "other" test (purchased from enercig.com) has a blue wrapper.

    http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=673

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    Any significance to the wrapper color? Your batteries have a grey wrapper, and the one from the "other" test (purchased from enercig.com) has a blue wrapper.

    http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=673
    I do not know, it looks like they are from the same supplier.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Also the 30A discharge curves appear to be a bit different - esp. in the first half. It would be interesting to superimpose them. Possibly they are still tweaking the chemistry.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Some temperature data from the test of the blue INR21700-30T at dampfakkus.de

    Temperatures at end of discharge test:

    20A: 53 degC
    30A: 68 degC
    35A: 75 degC

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Wow... only a matter of time til the 2170 format takes over
    Thanks much as always for the awesome service you provide HKJ !!

    Some of my Solarforce hosts are so over bored that I may be able to shave a bit more out of them to fit one of these

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by psychbeat View Post
    Wow... only a matter of time til the 2170 format takes over
    Due to the larger volume the 21700 format will be better than 18650 in performance, but some people do not have performance as top priority, size and weight may be more important!
    Me? I have a large pile of 18650 flashlights and a few 26650, but if I find some interesting 21700 lights I will probably try them.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    The 26650 size seems to be topped out at 5200mAh, with apparently no one working on improving capacity further. Samsung allegedly has a 5300mAh mid-power 21700-53G cell planned for future production, which could make the 26650 an oversized and obsolete form factor.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    The 26650 size seems to be topped out at 5200mAh, with apparently no one working on improving capacity further. Samsung allegedly has a 5300mAh mid-power 21700-53G cell planned for future production, which could make the 26650 an oversized and obsolete form factor.
    The size is not topped out, but because no first tier manufacturer do a top of the line cell in that form factor, you do not get the best cells in that size.

    And my comment about a melted battery holder in the review, before and after 50A test:


    The before is a original battery holder, before I use them I replace the wires.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
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    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Worth emphasis: the increase in current handling ability has little to do with the small increase in volume. Rather, it has to do with improvements that could also have been made in 18650 cells too if there had been sufficient market demand for such at the time.

    For example, one of the major improvements is in tab design - which can greatly decrease internal resistance. The tabs are what connect the terminals to the current collectors. Most 18650 cells use only one (or two) tabs per terminal. Newer high-current cells use many more tabs whose number, thickness and layout are carefully optimized using sophisticated modeling software, e.g. see Spotnitz et al, Design and Simulation of Spirally-Wound, Lithium-Ion Cells

    The details are of course proprietary, but one get a general idea from perusing patents, e.g. below is excerpted from A123's patent
    Battery tab location design and method of construction US 8084158 B2


    Quote Originally Posted by A123
    The internally active material of the cell includes two electrodes, a cathode and an anode. One contributor to the impedance of a battery cell is the lack of current carrying paths between the active cell materials (anode and cathode) and the external cell terminals. It has been surprisingly discovered that overall cell impedance can be significantly lowered by using more current carriers, or tabs, than conventional cylindrical (wound assembly) cells, whose designs call for one or two tabs per electrode. In one or more embodiments of the invention, a plurality of tabs are joined at a larger current collector on either side of the cell called an extension tab, which then makes the connection with each of the battery terminals of the cell. In one or more embodiments, the electrode can include about 4 to about 12 tabs, and for example, may include four tabs. In other embodiments, the electrode includes one tab per 200 cm2 area of electrode. High power battery cells will require a higher density of tabs than low power cells [...]
    Follow the links to learn more. It would be very interesting to teardown one of the above cells to observe the tab design employed. Volunteers?

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    HKJ, have you been able to find and purchase a Sanyo NCR20700A (30A and 3.1Ah)? That cell would be interesting to compare to the 30T.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    HKJ, have you been able to find and purchase a Sanyo NCR20700A (30A and 3.1Ah)? That cell would be interesting to compare to the 30T.
    Yes, I am testing it at the current time. I will probably publish the review in a week or two.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    Any significance to the wrapper color? Your batteries have a grey wrapper, and the one from the "other" test (purchased from enercig.com) has a blue wrapper.

    http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=673
    If you have a wide gamut monitor (wider than srgb), those pictures do look indeed bluish in a non color space aware software such as a browser, but opening them in Photoshop reveals that they are in fact grey, albeit with a slightly too cool white balance.

    Last edited by maukka; 03-24-2017 at 03:55 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    I think I will stick with Sanyo the best batteries makers on the planet! I don't need a time bomb in my pocket!

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    I think I will stick with Sanyo the best batteries makers on the planet! I don't need a time bomb in my pocket!
    Sanyo certainly makes good cells. But I don't know that they are the best on the planet. And that certainly doesn't make Samsung cells (or any other top tier offerings) 'time bombs in your pocket'. The fact is that ALL Sanyo/Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and Sony cells are of good quality. Some makes might produce a better variant of certain cells than others (like Sanyo seems to make the best 3500mAH cell, LG the best 3000mAH 4.35V cell, Sony the best 3000mAH high current cell, etc). But all of the top tier cells are of good quality, and there is certainly nothing to fear from a Samsung cell.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Thanks for the detailed review as always HKJ, always above and beyond for our benefit

    I kind of have mixed feelings, so many 18650 lights so i dont want that fuel type going anywhere soon! (not that they will). I do wonder around a nice 21700 host, if anything the benefits to vapers may be more appreciated(size/performance). I would be tempted for a 21700 fed ecig variable voltage mod for sure...........

    I also can not help think of the benefits of 8 of these cells in a handle, feeding a crazy v54 project Suddenly that 100k lm becomes a little more and for longer!! Its all progress, little steps add up to a large step after a while

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by ven View Post
    I kind of have mixed feelings, so many 18650 lights so i dont want that fuel type going anywhere soon! (not that they will). I do wonder around a nice 21700 host, if anything the benefits to vapers may be more appreciated(size/performance). I would be tempted for a 21700 fed ecig variable voltage mod for sure...........
    I see what you are saying about 18650 lights. But I certainly welcome 21700 lights. Let's face it. 18650s have ALWAYS been short on capacity, particularly when it comes to sustained high power operation. Your typical 18650 light can't even muster two hours of opertion in the 700 lumen range. This means that, if you start with fresh batteries, you can't get through much of a night hike unless you run your light at relatively low output. A high capacity 21700 would be most up to the task while also being able to provide more current. Plus, a 21700 light wouldn't be too much larger than an 18650 light.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Those are good points, not too sure how long we will be off for readily available 21700 cells with(for me it would have to be) over 4000mah. Even then for me, the extra 500 or so mah is not critical for my uses. Very rare do i see a cell bellow 3.5v in a day of on/off use in work as an example. Not high output as not needed(sub 300lm usually closer to 150lm). When i need 700+lm i tend to go BIG, simply because of heat and run time available with multi cell lights. However it is not always convenient to wield a big light..........If i am out for a walk/explore/fun then size restrictions are n/a for me. Thats why i like options/variety............call it having a light for every occasion.

    I am interested in a 21700 host, that way if p60 compatible it is only a case of host and cell. The expensive part(variable) is in the engine, so a nice 21700 host would be welcomed by me..................i may be on my own there

    For still a compact light, the 26650 fed lights work for me, if anything i actually prefer the form factor over 18650 fed ones. Just more natural/comfy in hand for me, also 5000mah in the tank is not to be sniffed at. These 21700 kind of fit in between the said.................so that is why i have mixed feelings with flashlight use. I am not sure right now if it is worth it(personal opinion).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    Quote Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
    Your typical 18650 light can't even muster two hours of opertion in the 700 lumen range. This means that, if you start with fresh batteries, you can't get through much of a night hike unless you run your light at relatively low output.
    IMO, for a headlamp, a Zebralight H600 running at 350 lumen for 4 hours is just about perfect. I wouldn't want any more weight for comfort reasons and brightness is more than enough. These 21700s are a lot heavier and the flashlight will be heavier as well.

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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    I just hope 18650 tech keeps improving slightly

    Some of my cheap18650 p60 hosts feel like they're already bored to 20mm.
    So a bit sandpaper n drill could get me to 21 in a few mins.

    For my headlamps I agree that weight considerations would keep me choosing 18650

    Cool times ahead!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    China 26650's already hit 5800mAh @ 10A discharge.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    "Mooch" has also tested this cell, from the perspective of vaping use.
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...attery.798683/

    This is a 21700 cell (21mm diameter x 70mm length) that is an incredible performer, running over 20% longer at 30A continuous than the Sanyo NCR20700A thanks to its incredibly low internal resistance of 10-12mOhms. This low internal resistance reduces voltage sag, letting the 30T run for longer before the voltage drops too far.

    As is typical for a Samsung cell, I consider it to be underrated due to it running cooler than others at its factory rating. I am rating this Samsung 30T at 40A and 3100mAh. Its maximum vaping amps (MVA) rating is 60A, limited by temperature.
    According to the data sheet, running this cell at 35A for 250 cycles will leave you with 60% capacity.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    ^^^ Do you know if Mooch is truly measuring DC internal resistance, since he reports about half the value that HKJ reports.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Test/review of Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh (Gray)

    I have not seen Mooch's protocol for testing IR.

    Here is his test equipment and setup:

    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nd-setup.7431/

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