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Thread: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Hey Guys and Gals.
    After a lot of blood sweat and tears I have finally come to the last part of building my website.

    Feedback on my website:
    If you`d like, please have a look I`d like to receive some feedback on my new website eneloop101.com.(link is external)
    It took me probably close to 100 hours from February till today to get this thing up and running. A lot has been going into research to find pictures, pdf files, background info etc. You can`t imagine how long I had to dig for certain PDF files
    And a lot into messing around with Wordpress.....


    Help me please:
    Although I have been digging around so much and for so long, I still have a few things I couldn`t find.
    So I`d like to ask you guys for some help if possible.

    • The first thing that comes to mind is a Picture of a graph that shows that the cycle life of eneloops is calculated to 60% of its capacity. So if after X amount of cycles the capacity has dropped to 60% they call it a day. I have seen this graph with explanation before but can`t find it anywhere. Answered! Thanks!
    • Also, I`d like to know if you would like some questions to be answered about eneloops. Possibly for the FAQ page.
    • Ideas about what pages/info you would like to see added in the future.
    • PDF eneloop catalog 2013-2014 which i can't seem to find.
    • fake eneloops , especially Panasonic branded ones. To show the difference between real and fake.
    • Self Discharge Tests, especially tests longer than 1 year



    Facebook:

    I opened a facebook page for some discussions and if you like it, please give me a thumbsup on facebook as well: https://www.facebook.com/eneloop101(link is external)
    Whether you want to discuss about eneloops, or just hang around and chat away, feel free to drop by!


    Coming soon:

    A few more pages I am about to post in the next few weeks/months. .

    1. More information on charging and chargers. Especially about chargers like the Opus BC 3100 and SkyRay MC3000 etc.
    2. a page about Rewrapped eneloops (Harmolattice, ikea, amazonbasics, duraloops etc)
    3. Overview of different battery tests from the internet, and possibly adding some of my feedback on those tests.
    Last edited by ChibiM; 06-01-2017 at 02:29 PM.
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


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    Exclamation Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    ENELP heaven !
    Last edited by LeanBurn; 05-11-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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    XTARVC4, LCTBC500, Amaloops, 1999MAG-LITE 2D Incandescent(glass lens)

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    Flashaholic* PapaLumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Superb! Who knew there was so much eneloop stuff out there. Drinks cans, solar chargers, MASSIVE charging station! etc.

    Cant help with your graph im afraid, im sure someone will know where to find it.

    Thanks for all your work. Whenever I buy new loops im searching around for which model I need, now I'll just go to your site

    Good work.

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    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by LeanBurn View Post
    ENELP heaven !
    LOL

    I imagine there is still a lot more to say about eneloops though
    Thanks for checking out my website. If there is anything that you'd like to ask or advise let me know.
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


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    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaLumen View Post
    Superb! Who knew there was so much eneloop stuff out there. Drinks cans, solar chargers, MASSIVE charging station! etc.

    Cant help with your graph im afraid, im sure someone will know where to find it.

    Thanks for all your work. Whenever I buy new loops im searching around for which model I need, now I'll just go to your site

    Good work.
    Well it did take me a bit of time to find all that though

    Even tonight I found an eneloop T-shirt I had never seen before. Still digging
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


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    Flashaholic tjh's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    I really thought it was going to be a pretty lame website.

    How wrong was I???

    Nice work, very interesting!

  7. #7
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    This is just excellent. An amazing effort and you deserve many kudos.

    And from what I can see, objective and an excellent reference,

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* aginthelaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    I like it!!! I thought I was obsessed but you've got more details about batteries than hkj, relatively speaking, since there's technically only one battery on your site. Eneloops forever!!! Maybe someone will throw you some free ones if you post links pointing to the best places to buy them.
    a single sunbeam is enough to drive away many shadows- St. Francis of Assissi

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Thanks guys. I'm currently working on rewraps. It took me a few hours last night to find pictures and more indepth info on only 2 batteries. So some info I keep rather short because of the research time.
    If you guys have any recommendations or questions feel free to ask.
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


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    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post



    Help me please:
    Although I have been digging around so much and for so long, I still have a few things I couldn`t find.
    So I`d like to ask you guys for some help if possible.

    • The first thing that comes to mind is a Picture of a graph that shows that the cycle life of eneloops is calculated to 60% of its capacity. So if after X amount of cycles the capacity has dropped to 60% they call it a day. I have seen this graph with explanation before but can`t find it anywhere.
    I also remember having seen it. It was a japanese site, and they were refering to jis (Japanese Industrial Standards). Unfortunately I can't fine the site. Almost everything was in japaneese exept for the graph and the reference to JIS.

    But I can confirm the 60 percent number, And also add that Jis is a member of the IEC in Switzerland (International Electrotechnical Commission), like many other national industrial standards. Here in Denmark ”Danish Standards” are also a member of IEC.

    According to IEC standards, cyclelife is also stoped at 60 percent. I once compared JIC and IEC standards for cycle life/endurance test using google translate.
    Though it is very difficult to translate japanese with google translate, it can be done if you only translate a couple of words at time. I discovered the cycle life tests were completely the same. Which isn't so strange, since I think one of the purposes of the IEC is to harmonize standards.

    Harmonization of JIS with international standards
    Japan has stepped up efforts to harmonize JIS with international standards since the World Trade Organization (WTO)/Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT) came into force in January 1995.

    https://www.jisc.go.jp/eng/jis-act/
    As an active memberof ISO since 1952, JISC is a permanent member of the ISO Council and the Technical Management Board (TMB), playing a key role in policy making. In 2016, JISC made 103 new proposals for international standards. JISC joined the IEC in 1953. At the IEC, JISC participates as a permanent member of the Council Board (CB), as well as the Standardization Management Board (SMB) and Conformity Assessment Board (CAB), helping to shape policy.

    https://www.jisc.go.jp/eng/iso-iec/index.html
    JISC stands for Japanese Industrial Standards Committee, and establishes and maintains the Japanese Industrial Standards.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japane...ards_Committee

    Great work you have done by the way
    Last edited by Viking; 05-21-2017 at 04:35 AM.

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    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    That is good to know. I actually thought it was in English. So now I can dig through some Japanese websites. Thanks for the heads up.
    If you ever see it again, let me know!

    I have never compared the 2 standards, but that could be interesting as well. All I know that from 2015 they used a different standard again for their testing. Shouldnt be a great difference with previous testing standards, but they are used nonetheless.
    Thanks for your help.
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  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    I hope you have better luck finding it than I had. I have spent about an hour or so surfing the net for the graph or a similar one.
    Actually I initially thought I could help you, because I had bookmarked the site with that graph, and haved linked to it a couple of times on CPF. unfortunately, the site seems to be gone now. It was this link below, if it was the same site you remembered having seen.

    http://csknowledge.panasonic.co.jp/app/answers/detail/a_id/18109/~/%E5%85%85%E9%9B%BB%E6%B1%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%80%8C%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8A%E8%B F%94%E3%81%97%E4%BD%BF%E3%81%88%E3%82%8B%E5%9B%9E%E6%95%B0%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF%EF%BC%9F-pz18109
    Last edited by Viking; 05-22-2017 at 12:40 AM.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Thanks for helping out. I appreciate that.
    I have been trying to find a cached page for that, but couldn`t find anything. What I will be trying next is to go through some PDF files I have on my HD to see if there is anything related to that. I think it should be from the time of the 2nd gen eneloop std batteries. Ill update once I find anything.
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  14. #14
    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    ChibiM I believe JIS are still using the IEC standards.

    Also IEC from time to time change paragraph / section numbers, in which their rules are listed under.

    The JIS numbers: 7.4.1.1 (2007) and 7.3.2 (2013) are both suchs paragraphs.
    In the IEC 2003 release, the cycle test were also listed under section 7.4.1.1. Just like in the JIS version from 2007 you refer to on your website. Take a look on the link below.

    Cycle life: IEC61951-2(2003) 7.4.1.1
    http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-spe...0%5B1%5D_1.pdf
    However, also IEC does not lists the cycle test under this section in their new releases anymore. For instance, in the 2011 edition, they had changed the paragraph number for cycle test to 7.5.1.2. And using google translate, I see JIS in their 2013 release you refer to, are still referring to IEC standards (see quote below).
    However I haven't compared the rules to each other word by word this time as I once did before, maybe you can/will if you read japanese. If you compare the JIS and IEC version of table 9 section 7.5.1.2, be aware that some of the numbers in the Japanese version are offset, so at first glance the two tables don't look the same, but they really are the same. It took me a little while to figure that out.


    Translated from japaneese using google translate (JIS C8708 2013):
    "Introduction This standard is a Japanese Industrial Standard created based on IEC 61951-2 issued as the third edition in 2011"

    序文 この規格は,2011 年に第 3 版として発行された IEC 61951-2 を基に作成した日本工業規格である
    http://kikakurui.com/c8/C8708-2013-01.html
    In the quote above I link to the new JIS version 2013 you reffer to on your website. I believe the cycle test is listed under paragraph 7.5.1.2, just as in the new IEC edition. See table 9 paragraph 7.5.1.2 in both the japaneese and english version. As far as I can tell paragraph 7.3.2 is discharge characteristics, not the cycle/endurance test. When I translate from japanese, I get nothing about a cycle test (paragraph 7.3.2 is also listed in the IEC version).
    Below are the IEC version.... well not exactly but an identical copy from British Standard (it costs money to buy the official one from IEC).
    If you wanna read about it, it is also worth reading section 7.5.1.1, the paragraph just before 7.5.1.2 (and 7.5.1.3 the paragraph right after) as they also deals with the endurance / cycle test.

    This British Standard is the UK implementation of EN 61951-2:2011. It is identical to IEC 61951-2:2011. It supersedes BS EN 61951-2:2003 which will be withdrawn on 29th June 2014.
    http://www.ptl-global.com/Upload/036...6203028481.pdf

    EDIT
    Just found this. Panasonics website also refer to "test 7.5.1.2" when they refer to how the estimated number of repeated use is based on for eneloop batteries (see quote below).
    It is my belief that before 2011, they used the test listed under section 7.4.1.1 (2007), just as you write on your website. But after the release of the new JIS edition, they are using the test listed under section 7.5.1.2.
    The reference to 7.3.2 by a EU Panasonic employee for the endurance/cycle test, I think is based on some kind of misunderstanding.

    Unless you disagree, that leave us with the question whether there are some differences between section 7.4.1.1 (2007) and 7.5.1.2. (2013)
    To this I can say, that about a year or two ago I had that exact conversation with Power ME UP when we discovered the new IEC edition, and compared it to the older one. Back then we had both editions to read, so comparison was easy, and we both agreed the test was the same, just listed under a new paragraph.

    Unfortunately to day I only have a copy of the new one (the one I have linked to from British Standard). The old version that I also linked to (7.4.1.1) is unfortunately just a piece of it. But though some info is missing, you can still see that table 9 is the same, which is the most important information after all.


    Translated from japaneese using google translate.
    "Estimated number of repeated use based on test conditions of JIS C 8708 2013 (7.5.1.2)"

    JIS C8708 2013(7.5.1.2)の試験条件に基づく繰り返し使用回数の目安
    http://panasonic.jp/battery/charge/p-db/BK-3MCC8GL.html


    Last edited by Viking; 05-23-2017 at 03:33 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    here one comment/feedback from my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    Answer A is closest in my opinion also, especially looking at the done tests by several members. Although, new eneloops never come 100% charged, so you'd have to charge them anyway.. So I personally would still call them new, but some people might call them used, as they left the Original sealed package

    The underlined text says max capacity, and earlier in answer A you said minimal capacity. I would probably say Min instead of Max at that point if I wanted to be picky

    Answer B is not correct.
    Feel free to add another FAQ which clearly explains what "70%" means and what it doesn't. The distinction between 'capacity', 'max capacity', and 'charge' should be pointed out in order not to leave any room for confusion or speculation. Opinions are welcome, but a dedicated website should etc

    Otherwise, never mind. I made my point back then. Long time ago. Have moved on since.
    Anyway, the website looks great, congrats!

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    @Viking; I will look into that another time, maybe tonight. I currently have lunch break so I can only be short.

    @Kreisl: where did that comment come from? I'm not sure if this is talking about the 70% charge batteries are shipped with, or 70% charge left after X years? Please let me know. If I made a mistake, I will edit it.
    I have to agree that I probably used the word capacity while I had to use the word charge in the past. They can be confusing. I will try to make it more clear and go through my site to double check how I worded things. I will add that to my FAW, thanks for the tip.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    @Kreisl: where did that comment come from?
    one can click on the icon to get the URL:



    the comment came from this URL:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...18#post4797118

    Thanks for the consideration, appreciated!!

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    I just checked and added the question to the FAQ. The interesting thing is that Panasonic themselves use the 2 terms interchangeably. 70% charge and 70% capacity. Definitely a useful question.
    I like this explanation: (from a PDF of web.mit.edu).
    State of Charge (SOC)(%) – An expression of the present battery capacity as apercentage of maximum capacity. SOC is generally calculated using current integration todetermine the change in battery capacity over time.
    I just dont want to add another terminology.
    Last edited by ChibiM; 05-24-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    @Viking:
    Phew. I just read everything and checked all your links. Thanks a lot for your help! Really appreciate that.
    I`m pretty tired so I hope I won`t say anything strange

    I remember searching for the JIS documents a long time ago. I only found a txt document, the Japanese one. I never found an English version (as I thought they were 2 different things), so thanks a lot for the English version of the IEC. It`s now clear to me they use the same testing specs. Do you know by any chance the link of the one that is now offline?
    The Japanese 2013 version you linked to says its corresponding with IEC 61951-2-2011. Im curious how much they cost to get. I`ve seen them for sale the time I was searching but can`t remember the price they asked. (edit: I just checked and saw one at webstore IEC for 230usd ouch!)

    I personally have the JIS 8708 2007 Japanese tekst version if you`d like to get it, send me a PM please.

    So a short conclusion the JIS 8708 2013 refers to the IEC 61951-2:2011
    The JIS 8708 2007 refers to the IEC 61951-2:2003....
    Now Im awfully tired.. going to bed now
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  20. #20
    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    Phew. I just read everything and checked all your links. Thanks a lot for your help! Really appreciate that.

    You're welcome, I'm only happy to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post

    I remember searching for the JIS documents a long time ago. I only found a txt document, the Japanese one. I never found an English version (as I thought they were 2 different things)
    I did too for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    Do you know by any chance the link of the one that is now offline?
    If you mean the old 2003 IEC release I was about to say no, since the site I had bookmarked no longer works.
    But after a long internet search I just found another site with the original 2003 release from IEC.
    Only annoying thing is it constantly alternates between english and french, so you will have to scroll over the french parts, unless you speak the language. Not a big issue though.

    As you can see the 2003 and 2011 IEC editions are completely identical for the cycle/endurance test.
    But be aware that every other page is in French, and every other page is in English.
    All even pages are in french (page 2,4,6,8 and so on), while all odd pages are in english (page 3,5,7,9 and so on). This is a little confusing and annoying, and mean you have to scroll over the French pages all the time.

    The cycle/Endurance test in english starts in the middle of page 31 and ends at the top of page 33 (remember page 32 is on french, so scroll over that page).


    http://www.spowerking.com/download_f...1221434442.pdf


    While searching for the old IEC version I also found two old Sanyo Eneloop guide books for 1. and 2. generation eneloop.
    It states that also the old tests (7.4.1.1 (2007)) was indeed IEC standards (see page 4 and 11 on the links below the quotes). Now you have documentation for how the old test was done too if you are interested.


    eneloop can be recharged 1,000 times, which represents a huge economic advantage
    *1: A guide-line for battery life based on IEC61951-2 : 2003 (7.4.1.1)
    Can eneloop be charged up to 1,000 times?

    This is an estimate based on test results for battery life according to IEC standards (number of times after charging/discharging). The number may vary, however, depending on how the batteries were used. The number of times a battery may be used decreases as battery life draws to an end.
    https://www.master-instruments.com.a...%20Enebook.pdf
    (1.generation eneloop, see page 4 and 11)

    http://www.energy4people.ru/upload/instr_file1371.pdf
    (2. generation eneloop, see page 4 and 11)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    I personally have the JIS 8708 2007 Japanese tekst version if you`d like to get it, send me a PM please.
    No thank you, only if you find discrepancy between the two versions.
    After the quotes from the old Sanyo Eneloop guide book above, I think that also the old JIS version was Identical to IEC, although I haven't checked that edition. But everything indicates it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    So a short conclusion the JIS 8708 2013 refers to the IEC 61951-2:2011
    The JIS 8708 2007 refers to the IEC 61951-2:2003....
    Now Im awfully tired.. going to bed now
    Yes exactly
    Last edited by Viking; 05-24-2017 at 09:45 PM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    It looks great. Thank you for all the information and hard work.

    The only thing is, the gray text is a little hard to read for aging eyes. Any chance you can just make it plain black?
    It is better to buy a beautiful, expensive, custom flashlight than to curse the darkness.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    As documented in my previous post, Sanyo Specifically writes that eneloop 1st and 2nd generation is tested under the conditions of IEC61951-2: 2003(7.4.1.1).

    I have now also found sanyo and panasonic catalogs for generation 3 and 4 were the two companies just as clearly refer to IEC61951-2: 2003 (7.4.1.1) and IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.3), the latter test is for generation 4.
    Be aware that IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.2 ) and IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.3) is the exact same thing, since paragraph (7.5.1.3) doesn't actually have a test of its own, but simply states the test must take place under the conditions mentioned in paragraph 7.5.1.2. That was the main reason I previously recommended also to read paragraph 7.5.1.3.


    7.5.1.3 Cylindrical cells dimensionally interchangeable with primary cells


    The cell shall be tested in accordance with 7.5.1.2. The total number of cycles obtained when
    the test is completed shall be not less than:

    • 500 for AAA cells with a rated capacity less than 800 mAh;
    • 300 for AAA cells with a rated capacity of 800 mAh or more;
    • 500 for AA cells with a rated capacity less than 2100 mAh;
    • 300 for AA cells with a rated capacity of 2100 mAh or more;
    • 500 for D and C cells.

    http://www.ptl-global.com/Upload/036...6203028481.pdf
    Below are 3 quotes from Sanyo where they mention test conditions for generation 3 and again speciffically
    refer to IEC61951-2 : 2003(7.4.1.1) in page 2, 3 and 11


    eneloop rechargeable batteries represent renewable energy
    and can be charged up to 1,800*1 times! Using eneloop rechargeable
    batteries will help in the reduction of disposable waste and thus benefit
    the environment. Let’s keep batteries out of our landfill.
    * 1: A guideline for battery life based on IEC61951-2 : 2003(7.4.1.1)
    eneloop:
    Rechargeable up to 1,800 times.


    A guide-line for battery life based on IEC61951-2:2003(7.4.1.1)
    *5 Battery life is based on IEC61951-2(7.4.1.1)
    http://alpha-energy.ru/D/0000003752/...op_2012_en.pdf



    And below, quotes from a panasonic catalog also for generation 3 taken from first and last page. (The catalog is taken from your website by the way)
    Unfortunately this PDF doesn't allow me to copy/paste. But in first section on page 1 is written ”the new eneloop batteries are also rechargeable approximately 1,800 times *2”


    On the last page (note *2) indicates: General estimate based on the IEC 61951-2(7.4.1.1) testing conditions (the number of times a battery can be recharged changes according to the use conditions and equipment used)”

    http://eneloop101.com/wp-content/upl...d-gen-2011.pdf


    And below quotes from a panasonic generation 4 eneloop catalog:
    There are more references than those cited below. I recommend enter ”IEC” in the search box, that's the easiest way to find and read them.


    Recharge *2 up to 2100 times
    Cycle life *2
    Note *2 indicates the following: ”Panasonic internal testing IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.3)”


    http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/pdf/...at_2015_HR.pdf


    Another interesting part I found from the latter PDF was a reference to IEC61951-2(7.3.2), which I suspect is identical to JIS C8708 2013 (7.3.2) the one a EU Panasonic employee had referred to you said.That test however is about capacity/discharge.

    So now we have clear documentation that both generation 1,2,3 and 4 from both panasonic and Sanyo are testet under respectively IEC 61951-2:2003(7.4.1.1) and IEC61951-2:2011 (7.5.1.2/7.5.1.3) for the cycle test. That also tell us that JIS 8708 2007 and JIS 8708 2013 are identical to the IEC versions above regarding the cycle test I would say.
    Last edited by Viking; 05-25-2017 at 02:22 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    I just checked and added the question to the FAQ.


    the new FAQ item is excellent!! Very helpful and clear and eindeutig. Thanks for having added it, appreciated.
    ( i didn't understand the mit.edu explanation of SOC, too confusing, yeah we don't need that thx )

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Love your devotion
    But after a long internet search I just found another site with the original 2003 release from IEC. Thanks a lot.. Downloaded it for reference, thanks a lot!
    As you can see the 2003 and 2011 IEC editions are completely identical for the cycle/endurance test. I compared them both, 2003:7.4.1.1 and 2011:7.5.1.2 and can`t find a difference either. The way I asked the employee is: I see that the coding (which I didnt check...my mistake) for testing has changed, would this mean that the testing has changed? And the employee answered: we have tested 10 years old cells to come to this conclusion...so my wrong interpretation was that they changed the Measurement... which I now learned are not. Also the employee didnt refer to any specific JIS pages or anything.. It was just my wrong assumption because of the different codes and the answer of the employee. I will correct that on my website.Thanks a lot for clearing this up!!! that really adds value to my research so much!!

    While searching for the old IEC version I also found two old Sanyo Eneloop guide books for 1. and 2. generation eneloop.
    It states that also the old tests (7.4.1.1 (2007)) was indeed IEC standards (see page 4 and 11 on the links below the quotes). Now you have documentation for how the old test was done too if you are interested. Yep, that is great. I had the latter one. The only thing that draws my attention is that it refers to the 61951-2 instead of 61951-1.. I assume they are the same thing..


    No thank you, only if you find discrepancy between the two versions. Nope, but I found that the 2011 IEC version you linked to is a little more detailed while talking about the Charging procedure, saying within a relative humidity of 65% plusminus 20%. 2011:7.2 and 2003:7.1
    After the quotes from the old Sanyo Eneloop guide book above, I think that also the old JIS version was Identical to IEC, although I haven't checked that edition. But everything indicates it.
    Yep.. seems to be the case!
    Yes exactly
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  25. #25
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    It looks great. Thank you for all the information and hard work.

    The only thing is, the gray text is a little hard to read for aging eyes. Any chance you can just make it plain black?
    Thanks! Well, that is probably the Wordpress Theme. Hopefully I will get around figuring out how to change that all in 1 go. I can do it manually, but each page is built up with page builder called Beaver Builder, which makes it very very hard to do it manually... But good to know!. Thanks for the feedback
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  26. #26
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Great stuff. Now I am getting a little used to your messages because after reading and comparing the PDF files I can finally follow you

    Be aware that IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.2 ) and IEC61951-2 (7.5.1.3) is the exact same thing, since paragraph (7.5.1.3) doesn't actually have a test of its own, but simply states the test must take place under the conditions mentioned in paragraph 7.5.1.2. That was the main reason I previously recommended also to read paragraph 7.5.1.3.
    Yep, I followed that!

    And below, quotes from a panasonic catalog also for generation 3 taken from first and last page. (The catalog is taken from your website by the way)
    Unfortunately this PDF doesn't allow me to copy/paste. But in first section on page 1 is written ”the new eneloop batteries are also rechargeable approximately 1,800 times *2” On the last page (note *2) indicates: General estimate based on the IEC 61951-2(7.4.1.1) testing conditions (the number of times a battery can be recharged changes according to the use conditions and equipment used)”
    Yep, I got that!

    Another interesting part I found from the latter PDF was a reference to IEC61951-2(7.3.2), which I suspect is identical to JIS C8708 2013 (7.3.2) the one a EU Panasonic employee had referred to you said.(That was my misinterpretation.. see my previous reply)That test however is about capacity/discharge.

    So now we have clear documentation that both generation 1,2,3 and 4 from both panasonic and Sanyo are testet under respectively IEC 61951-2:2003(7.4.1.1) and IEC61951-2:2011 (7.5.1.2/7.5.1.3) for the cycle test. That also tell us that JIS 8708 2007 and JIS 8708 2013 are identical to the IEC versions above regarding the cycle test I would say.
    I agree, and thank you SO much for helping out.. It helped me tremendously. Now I can read your posts without getting a headache
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


  27. #27
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post


    the new FAQ item is excellent!! Very helpful and clear and eindeutig. Thanks for having added it, appreciated.
    ( i didn't understand the mit.edu explanation of SOC, too confusing, yeah we don't need that thx )
    The more terminology the more confusing sometimes. Well, the MIT doc is just another way of explaining what the 70% would mean. Just in different wording (terminology). So charge and capacity are sometimes used interchangeably so that might be a bit confusing. I hope to not confuse too many people on my website
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


  28. #28
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    It looks great. Thank you for all the information and hard work.

    The only thing is, the gray text is a little hard to read for aging eyes. Any chance you can just make it plain black?
    Magellan, I edited it, and should be black now.. Just hope it will stay. Black definitely reads easier. I actually would have preferred a different lettertype altogether, but maybe I can do that in the future.
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  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM;5099434
    [COLOR=#333333
    While searching for the old IEC version I also found two old Sanyo Eneloop guide books for 1. and 2. generation eneloop. [/COLOR]
    It states that also the old tests (7.4.1.1 (2007)) was indeed IEC standards (see page 4 and 11 on the links below the quotes). Now you have documentation for how the old test was done too if you are interested. Yep, that is great. I had the latter one. The only thing that draws my attention is that it refers to the 61951-2 instead of 61951-1.. I assume they are the same thing..
    Interesting, I haven't seen 61951-1 before. But when I search for 61951-1 and 61951-2 respectively, The first refers to Nickel-Cadmium, while the latter refers to nickel-metal hydride two very similar chemistries. Are you sure your version is refering to NiMH (nickel-metal hydride), and not Nickel-Cadmium (NiCd or NiCad) ?
    Last edited by Viking; 05-25-2017 at 03:36 PM.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: I`d like some help and feedback on my Eneloop website please......

    Viking: it's the one that you linked to in post #20. After downloading it I noticed the title of the document, which says -1.
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