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Thread: Attacking The TN42

  1. #1

    Default Attacking The TN42

    I know I'm late to the party but I hope to make up for that. I just got in my TN42 the other day, and I know this will come as no surprise to those of you who own it, but I LOVE THIS LIGHT. It's so big in performance yet feels relatively small in hand. I see soooooo much potential in this light!!! So expect to see something amazing not too long from now. Already making huge strides. I have seen people say this light leaves no room for modders. They are wrong. Dead wrong.

    I did have one curious thing happen. When I tested the stock light using my normal setup and standard I got a result quite off from what I see others posting. It seems there is a consensus that it does 700-725Kcd. I got 582 which I'd consider to be inside the spec Thrunite gives. I charged up a second set of high drain batteries and got the same result. Hmm...
    So either I have a bum light, all the others testing at 700-725 are calibrated too high, or I am calibrated too low.

    Years ago when I nailed down my standard the ANSI approach was not too widespread. I even backed off what I truly felt was the right numbers because I wanted to be conservative. Didn't want to run the chance that I'd ship a light that in actuality performed less than what I said. Seems I may have been too conservative and the lights I have made in the past may indeed be getting an upgrade instantly and for free. Now before you get too excited I need to get to the bottom of it. It could after all just be a bum light.

    That said regardless of the light being a dud or not I am making real progress on increasing the throw of this TN42.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    I am eagerly awaiting the results.
    Hello darkness my old friend,
    I've come to talk with you again...
    I liked neutral tints before they were cool.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Yes, this is an exciting light; I just read your recent post in the other forum. NW, yours will out throw all others, more lumens from larger die.

    I get excited about advances in different classifications of led lights. Keep us posted!
    Acebeam two X65Vn, X45vn70.2. Eagletac MX25L4CvnT XP-L. Fenix TK75vnQ70. Manker MK34Vn XPL.
    Nitecore TM06Svn 4 x XHP50.2. Noctigon Meteor M43vn XP-L dd. P60vn Quad XP-L HD 2 cell host Cryos Cu head. Thrunite TN36UTvn, TN42vn.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by richbuff View Post
    Yes, this is an exciting light; I just read your recent post in the other forum. NW, yours will out throw all others, more lumens from larger die.

    I get excited about advances in different classifications of led lights. Keep us posted!
    Just to clarify I am sticking to the same die size. But yes the goal is to increase throw beyond what others are doing without sacrificing lumens or tint.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I know I'm late to the party but I hope to make up for that. I just got in my TN42 the other day, and I know this will come as no surprise to those of you who own it, but I LOVE THIS LIGHT. It's so big in performance yet feels relatively small in hand. I see soooooo much potential in this light!!! So expect to see something amazing not too long from now. Already making huge strides. I have seen people say this light leaves no room for modders. They are wrong. Dead wrong.

    I did have one curious thing happen. When I tested the stock light using my normal setup and standard I got a result quite off from what I see others posting. It seems there is a consensus that it does 700-725Kcd. I got 582 which I'd consider to be inside the spec Thrunite gives. I charged up a second set of high drain batteries and got the same result. Hmm...
    So either I have a bum light, all the others testing at 700-725 are calibrated too high, or I am calibrated too low.

    Years ago when I nailed down my standard the ANSI approach was not too widespread. I even backed off what I truly felt was the right numbers because I wanted to be conservative. Didn't want to run the chance that I'd ship a light that in actuality performed less than what I said. Seems I may have been too conservative and the lights I have made in the past may indeed be getting an upgrade instantly and for free. Now before you get too excited I need to get to the bottom of it. It could after all just be a bum light.

    That said regardless of the light being a dud or not I am making real progress on increasing the throw of this TN42.

    the meters most use, 1330b, dr meter, etc, do read high at higher lux readings
    my tn42 vn reads close to 800klux on it, while on a more expensive meter ive got, an extech, it reads almost 80k lux lower at those values
    plus lux readings from most folks that do it theirself, is like fuel mileage when you ask folks about their cars, or how big the fish was they caught..
    everybody likes to pad things a bit, if you know what i mean

    are you staying with the xp35hi or something different ?

    i know a few folks have went back to xpg2, and the lumens drop to under 1000, just to get another 100k lux throw
    waste of time if you ask me
    ive got a keychain light that does close to 1000 lumens for petes sake
    Last edited by hahoo; 05-20-2017 at 06:20 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by hahoo View Post
    the meters most use, 1330b, dr meter, etc, do read high at higher lux readings
    my tn42 vn reads close to 800klux on it, while on a more expensive meter ive got, an extech, it reads almost 80k lux lower at those values
    plus lux readings from most folks that do it theirself, is like fuel mileage when you ask folks about their cars, or how big the fish was they caught..
    everybody likes to pad things a bit, if you know what i mean

    are you staying with the xp35hi or something different ?

    i know a few folks have went back to xpg2, and the lumens drop to under 1000, just to get another 100k lux throw
    waste of time if you ask me
    ive got a keychain light that does close to 1000 lumens for petes sake
    Just tested the Surefire UB3T Invictus and got a reading of 35Kcd. Selfbuilt says it does 40Kcd. This is 14.28% above my reading. Not conclusive but one more indication I may be too low.

    I have quite a few meters for multiple testing setups. The one I use for official results is an Extech 407026 HD. Then I have two Easyview 30s one of which is NIST traceable. The Certified one I use in my IS and the other one is used for a specific bench test setup. There are a couple other cheap ones I don't use much.

    I am am staying with the XHP35. Going to the XPG2 almost seems ridiculous. Not enough gains as you say for what is lost. I'd just go aspheric if I wanted to go max max throw.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Just tested the Surefire UB3T Invictus and got a reading of 35Kcd. Selfbuilt says it does 40Kcd. This is 14.28% above my reading. Not conclusive but one more indication I may be too low.

    I have quite a few meters for multiple testing setups. The one I use for official results is an Extech 407026 HD. Then I have two Easyview 30s one of which is NIST traceable. The Certified one I use in my IS and the other one is used for a specific bench test setup. There are a couple other cheap ones I don't use much.

    I am am staying with the XHP35. Going to the XPG2 almost seems ridiculous. Not enough gains as you say for what is lost. I'd just go aspheric if I wanted to go max max throw.

    sounds good, so 1.2 mil cd, and pushing 3000 lumens it is !!
    you need to work ot on this one

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    I am sure you will reach your goal Michael.At least 900Kcd w/ the TN42

    I am pretty confident that your numbers are a bit low. This is why?

    I do not have any light measuring equipment. However, I do have Google Earth[for distance] which I trust 100%. This is for a field test. Are my EYES ANSI rated? No. But I can assure you based on one of the analogies that I learned on here there certainly seemed like there was enough light to read a book,,, If I was 60' up in the water tower!

    These real life "field tests" are a pretty good indication how far the light will travel.I have done dozens of them. I am fortunate there are a few cell towers[looks like a flag pole] and water towers within 5 miles of where I live. My other Two locations have less light pollution. This one has more. In all Three cases the TARGET is completely dark.

    First I was the one who was shining the light and my friend Joe was at the target. He is not a flashaholic but he verified that there was light shed on the tower. I asked him , "Do you think it was enough to read a book?" He said I think so. We switched assignments.I Called Joe up and told him to shine the beam at the tower. From what I saw I believe there was enough illumination to read a book!

    Is this test a bit crude? Somewhat.Regardless of that I would bet on it that my light is MORE than 470Kcd.


    The light is the TN31mb which you measured @ 470Kcd. That would be 1371m/1499yds. One mile is 1760. The test "Target" was @ 1707yds=610Kcd minus 1 yard

    500Kcd/1414m/1546yds
    550Kcd/1483m/1621yds
    590Kcd/1536m/1679yds
    600Kcd/1549m/1694yds
    610Kcd/1562m/1708yds.......This is 1 yard further than the tower

    My guess is that my TN31mb is between 590Kcd and 610Kcd

    I noticed the beam reaching the tower many times when I was on my way back with Capo from my hikes. Last February I brought my friend Joe with me to verify that light was definitely shed on the tower.


    Just for Good measure and certification purposes!







    Google Earth Field test photo.

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  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    I forgot to mention this. I know there are a lot of variables to consider. Measuring distance is a big factor.

    Vinh-7.5m
    Jmpaul320- 8m
    Michael-8m...at least that is what it is was in 2013. It is on my cert. card.
    Selfbuilt-10m

    Vinh's numbers were always lower than SB's. iirc Justins were a little lower to.

    "TEEJ" explains measuring LUX very well in Post #56 of thread below.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...urements/page2
    A resentment is a cancer that eats us away from the inside and is portrayed by our attitude from the outside. Capolini-6.4.2003
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    towers that are completely dark ,are far easier to see light on from a flashlight, than towers with light
    its harder for the flashlight to overcome a tower that already has ambient light on, than one thats in total darkness,.... common sense really...
    go try and shine your light on an object in full daylight, then shine it on the same object when darkness falls..
    which scenario makes your light look more powerful?
    same principal with a tower at night , no ? ? ? ?
    i just always wonder why you talk about your towers being NOT LIT UP..
    your thinking backwards


    heres a good quality meter for less than you will spend on a set of batteries, about 20 bucks

    its very easy to check your own lights , rather than rely on somebody elses numbers....

    id be interested in seeing your numbers if you get one...

    Last edited by hahoo; 05-26-2017 at 05:40 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    I am sure you will reach your goal Michael.At least 900Kcd w/ the TN42

    I am pretty confident that your numbers are a bit low. This is why?

    I do not have any light measuring equipment. However, I do have Google Earth[for distance] which I trust 100%. This is for a field test. Are my EYES ANSI rated? No. But I can assure you based on one of the analogies that I learned on here there certainly seemed like there was enough light to read a book,,, If I was 60' up in the water tower!

    These real life "field tests" are a pretty good indication how far the light will travel.I have done dozens of them. I am fortunate there are a few cell towers[looks like a flag pole] and water towers within 5 miles of where I live. My other Two locations have less light pollution. This one has more. In all Three cases the TARGET is completely dark.

    First I was the one who was shining the light and my friend Joe was at the target. He is not a flashaholic but he verified that there was light shed on the tower. I asked him , "Do you think it was enough to read a book?" He said I think so. We switched assignments.I Called Joe up and told him to shine the beam at the tower. From what I saw I believe there was enough illumination to read a book!

    Is this test a bit crude? Somewhat.Regardless of that I would bet on it that my light is MORE than 470Kcd.
    I appreciate the anecdote Capo. It is encouraging to hear that the light is looking super powerful by eye. I will have to nail this down by instrumented tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by hahoo View Post
    i just always wonder why you talk about your towers being NOT LIT UP..
    your thinking backwards
    I think he is just making note of that fact to serve as a baseline. Also it would be easier for the eye to gauge the power of a light without any prior light than with light pollution. Not that I advocate measuring lux with one's eyes. Just if you do, do it in a really dark spot.

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    @hahoo

    Michael explained it well enough.

    But...The reason being is, I have seen beam shots posted on here and BLF where the towers were slightly lit up, therefore not giving a true sense of how much light is hitting the tower.

    Simple enough? I did not think it was that hard to understand,then again they say no question is a dumb question!

    I do NOT think I am thinking backwards,,,My thinking is logical, simple and my reasoning is common sense.

    The emoticon[Duh2] you used towards me is a reflection of yourself!

    It was totally unnecessary to post that and there was NO PROVOCATION on my part.
    A resentment is a cancer that eats us away from the inside and is portrayed by our attitude from the outside. Capolini-6.4.2003
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  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I appreciate the anecdote Capo. It is encouraging to hear that the light is looking super powerful by eye. I will have to nail this down by instrumented tests.


    I think he is just making note of that fact to serve as a baseline. Also it would be easier for the eye to gauge the power of a light without any prior light than with light pollution. Not that I advocate measuring lux with one's eyes. Just if you do, do it in a really dark spot.
    Thanks Michael.
    A resentment is a cancer that eats us away from the inside and is portrayed by our attitude from the outside. Capolini-6.4.2003
    Physical beauty temporarily satisfies the eye. Inner beauty is eternal and nurtures the soul. Capolini-7.23.2017









  14. #14

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Let's keep it civil guys.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    i just dont get a man, obsessed with lights, batteries, charger specs, battery specs, etc, etc...... probably has spent several thousand dollars on them, always talking lux numbers for every light known to man..... but wont go out and get a 20 dollar lux meter , and do his own readings


    if you get one cappy
    then you can add your name to the list of your heros you posted
    then you can say...


    Vinh-7.5m
    Jmpaul320- 8m
    Michael-8m...at least that is what it is was in 2013. It is on my cert. card.
    Selfbuilt-10m
    cappy - ? _ insert your distance_


    all bs aside, you really do need to get a meter
    its not hard at all, just get one with the peak hold function
    hit the button, walk away to your desired distance, fire your light at it for several seconds to get good reading
    walk back and see your results !!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Any updates or are tumble weeds the new norm around here?

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    With a smaller LED (Osram Black Flat, approximately 1/6 the die size of the XHP-35 HI) this mod does 1.137.958cd. With some optimization it could probably do a bit more.
    Last edited by The_Driver; 08-15-2017 at 03:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    I will be looking forward to your results, saabluster. I have had the TN 42 almost since it came out and I agree that is a great light with really good performance right off the bat. It's good to know that it can be made better yet as well.

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    He has not logged in since August 4, 2017 and his subscription has been removed. ,,,,Hmmmmm.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Yeah, it seems like saabluster disappears for periods of time from CPF. I bet he has many irons in the fire that take priority.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone View Post
    Yeah, it seems like saabluster disappears for periods of time from CPF. I bet he has many irons in the fire that take priority.
    Itís true. I have too much going on to be honest. Not being modest so I am reducing my current responsibilities. Currently working to get some of my past years research into a salable product that I am proud of. More to come.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Itís true. I have too much going on to be honest. Not being modest so I am reducing my current responsibilities. Currently working to get some of my past years research into a salable product that I am proud of. More to come.
    Thanks for the update. Many people are anxious to see what is beyond the TN42 from you.
    Last edited by richbuff; 10-13-2017 at 07:59 PM.
    Acebeam two X65Vn, X45vn70.2. Eagletac MX25L4CvnT XP-L. Fenix TK75vnQ70. Manker MK34Vn XPL.
    Nitecore TM06Svn 4 x XHP50.2. Noctigon Meteor M43vn XP-L dd. P60vn Quad XP-L HD 2 cell host Cryos Cu head. Thrunite TN36UTvn, TN42vn.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Glenn7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Michael probably needs to move on to the BLF Gigathrower with a HXP35 Hi that gets 1.2 million lux and puts over 2000 lumens down range.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn7 View Post
    Michael probably needs to move on to the BLF Gigathrower with a HXP35 Hi that gets 1.2 million lux and puts over 2000 lumens down range.
    Iím well aware of the project. While one can always get more throw going larger and larger true progress in my eyes is increasing specific performance. That is the fundamental technology must improve such that a light increases in performance without gaining in size. It is fundamental technology improvements I have been seeking for over a year now. That is why I havenít been releasing light after light.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Iím well aware of the project. While one can always get more throw going larger and larger true progress in my eyes is increasing specific performance. That is the fundamental technology must improve such that a light increases in performance without gaining in size. It is fundamental technology improvements I have been seeking for over a year now. That is why I havenít been releasing light after light.
    Well said!
    You and others like you might be the reason lights aren't better made. Buying new flashlights like others devoutly buying the next generation of smartphones, are you pushing innovation or just consumption? Wider head for even more throw. Wow. That's new.

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Capolini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Iím well aware of the project. While one can always get more throw going larger and larger true progress in my eyes is increasing specific performance. That is the fundamental technology must improve such that a light increases in performance without gaining in size. It is fundamental technology improvements I have been seeking for over a year now. That is why I havenít been releasing light after light.

    +2

    Anyone with some knowledge can keep increasing the size of the light[reflector] to increase its throw.

    To be able to increase the throw in a light of the same size is much more impressive, challenging and ground breaking.
    A resentment is a cancer that eats us away from the inside and is portrayed by our attitude from the outside. Capolini-6.4.2003
    Physical beauty temporarily satisfies the eye. Inner beauty is eternal and nurtures the soul. Capolini-7.23.2017









  27. #27

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    I was considering buying the BLF Gigathrower.

    However, after having read the last few days of posts, I'll respectfully decline and wait for Michael's 2-3 million+ candela version, the same size or smaller.
    Modded: 2 REV-Victor Enth * 2 DEFT-X's * RC40vn40 * X65vn * TM36vnM * SR96vnXHP70 Tmack: c11(638nm 957mw * 405nm 1w * v2 445nm 2.83w) * Cypreus (405nm 1w * 445nm 2.72w) * Tmag super (445nm 5.6w * 445nm 3.2w * 520nm 1.5w)

  28. #28

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    First of all, I do like the TN42.

    I have found in real use it slightly under performs with comparison to K40vn or BTUvn Shocker, which might just have more lux within the hot spot. IDK.

    The hot spot on TN42 almost drowns out your vision which is a compliment and maybe a fault in real use. I tried all 3 outdoors in my dad's field with a tree line >= half mile out and the Shocker was probably best performer visually. No significant difference in the tree line almost a mile out but it's hard to say for sure from that distance. Plus it has been a few days. Fully leaved trees are hard to see, bare trees bounce the light back a good amount. I'll have to head back to the field.
    the harder I work, the luckier I get.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by star_c_star View Post
    I was considering buying the BLF Gigathrower.

    However, after having read the last few days of posts, I'll respectfully decline and wait for Michael's 2-3 million+ candela version, the same size or smaller.
    I donít want you to have outsized expectations right now. My goal is first push the TN42 to its limits. Just finished a key component a few minutes ago. That said I am not ready to say where it will end up performance wise. Of course I always aim for the best performance on the market.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Attacking The TN42

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I donít want you to have outsized expectations right now. My goal is first push the TN42 to its limits. Just finished a key component a few minutes ago. That said I am not ready to say where it will end up performance wise. Of course I always aim for the best performance on the market.
    Michael, I understand.

    I was only saying that you could probably produce a flashlight with twice the candela of the BLF Gigathrower, if your flashlight were as large as that. It may not use the same LED or reflector, may have a giant aspheric, or some type of collar similar to a Wavien one, but I'm sure you could do it.

    As to the TN42, I'm eagerly awaiting the results of your research.
    Modded: 2 REV-Victor Enth * 2 DEFT-X's * RC40vn40 * X65vn * TM36vnM * SR96vnXHP70 Tmack: c11(638nm 957mw * 405nm 1w * v2 445nm 2.83w) * Cypreus (405nm 1w * 445nm 2.72w) * Tmag super (445nm 5.6w * 445nm 3.2w * 520nm 1.5w)

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