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Thread: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

  1. #31

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenk View Post
    Urban night running I think the 70 lumens from my Fenix HL10 is spot on.
    For trail running (rough ground) I prefer the 150 to 250 lumen range.
    Floody beams are essential to allow for illumination of your next foot strike as well as bright illumination of the next few metres ahead.
    Neutral and/or high-CRI beams are much more pleasant, and help to identify objects you may step on.
    How fast do you tend to move on the street with the 70 lumen floody Fenix HL10? Do you tend to aim the center of the beam at any particular distance from your feet?

    Your Fenix has a rotatable diffuser. Do you find that light is more pleasant to run with than with spot bounce generated by a running gait, or does it dim the light too much?
    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  2. #32

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Sorry for more delay than I intended, but here's my attempt at a contribution to this excellent and useful thread.

    I am a 56 year old male who took up ultramarathon mountain trail running 3 years ago - a form of running that often requires one to negotiate technical terrain at night. I mention my age simply because I found that my still quite decent eyesight did suffer some at night compared to my younger days. Keep that in mind when reading my preferences.

    I came to this forum seeking assistance with assembling a package of lighting suitable to my ultrarunning needs and the wealth of information here and the willing and knowledgeable contributors shortened the process and ultimately led to a far better system than I would have otherwise had. Thanks to all.

    (You can see my thread on the topic here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...or-Waist-Light )


    I started out seeking ways to build a better waist-light. My aging eyes were better able to read the rocky, root strewn terrain that is mountain single-track when shadows are visible - something headlamps can't do. I built a kick ass dual head version and ran with it in training, only to find that the bounce of the light as simply too annoying and distracting. Couldn't deal. Adding to the negative of a waist-light is the fact that smaller stray branches that often hang out into the trail at eye level weren't illuminated well enough from waist level for me to see before they hit me in the face (and eyes). I could see that even if I were able to deal with the bouncing of the waist-light, I was still going to need to provide some light from a headlamp to be able to see eye level hazards and react to them. I bailed on the waist-light entirely after enough trial and finding mostly error.

    I then modified my dual LED light to mount headlamp style. I was hoping that simply pouring enough lumens on to the trail would make up for the flat lighting. I wasn't overwhelmingly pleased with the results. I felt like there were diminishing terrain reading returns weighed against the extra battery requirements. Additionally, extra lumens produced and thrown at eye level actually exacerbate certain negative aspects of headlamps - fog and rain reached a blinding level with my ~1,000 luman dual rig.

    I had played previously and continued to run with a variety of hand lamps. I loved the way the lower light angle made the terrain visually pop up in 3D, but again the unsteady nature of the lighting (waving around a lot) was disconcerting. Also, hand-helds have one really nasty negative feature -- at the moment you need them the most (say you've caught a toe on a root and are struggling to regain your balance), your arms naturally wave frantically to help in your recovery and your trail goes dark. I simply couldn't abide by losing my trailing lighting right at the moment I needed it most. Also, eating and drinking on the run (totally necessary in ultrarunning) required movement of the hands such that lighting was lost.

    So much for all the negatives of the different lighting packages -- what did I finally settle on?

    I'm using a straight up stock Skilhunt H03 (TIR lens) in headlamp form. I run this on the top sustainable setting for the most part (500 lumens). I supplement this with a Rofis TR20 adjustable angle handheld with a custom built handstrap which makes it so I can't drop it easily. I run the Rofis also on the 500 lumen setting - occasionally cranking it up to the higher setting for route finding.


    Here's the positives of the system:

    1: Two totally separate lighting systems provide redundancy.
    2: Single type battery for both lights
    3: Lightweight single battery packaging for both lights, while still providing 3+ hours full bright.
    4: Design of both lights allows easy 30 second battery swap even in total darkness or on the run.
    5: Skilhunt flood diminishes the perception of beam movement of the hand held Rofis.
    6: The more 'throwy' nature of the Rofis overcomes the Skilhunt lumens, still inducing readable shadows.
    7: The Rofis throws well for 'look ahead' route finding - not the Skilhunt's strength.
    8: The Skilhunt continues to light the trail even when one trips and the Rofis is windmilling about.
    9: The adjustable head of the Rofis allows me to pick the perfect, comfortable angle for my wrist.
    10: When I encounter fog or rain, I can just switch off the Skilhunt and am all set with a lower angle light
    11: Excellent lighting of eye level hazards.

    Negatives:

    1: The single cell config of both lights leads to only ~3hrs lighting before needing cell changes.
    2: Hand held lights occupy hands.
    3: The color of the two lights don't match which annoys the hell out of me.


    I have now used this system on the run through hundreds of mile of wicked terrain and currently wouldn't trade it for anything (Note that I own multiple high end Petzls and Black Diamonds and Princeton headlamps and have used all of them happily for years backpacking and climbing).

    Typically I turn the Rofis off when climbing steeper terrain (sometimes I even tuck it into a velcro pouch located on my running belt). The fact that I'm generally power hiking these stretches means terrain reading becomes much easier - reducing the needed for the shadow producing handheld. Also, I'm usually trying to feed myself during this time and while the hand-strap does allow this with light in hand, if I know from the elevation profile of the route that it will be off for a while, it's just easier to tuck it away and be truly hands free. Depending on the route of course I find I need the Rofis lit about half the time.

    When needed I use the Nitecore MB40 battery magazine to carry spares and this gives me over 9 hours of full bright system usage. One could of course ramp down the lumens and go much longer. I have found for me that the weight to lumens trade-off falls easily in favor of lumens. The extra batteries simply aren't that heavy, and for most ultras crew access is such that other than a single emergency spare, you don't need to carry extras at all. It's only the longer more remote versions (which are my first love) that require the added weight.

    That's my 0.02 cents. Lighting is like shoes as I see it -- too many variables and personal preferences to nail down one "perfect" combo for everyone. Try things and find what works for you.

    As a reference to questions asked in the OP, my running speed on long races is not high (my fastest mile completing the 75 mile SCAR (Smokie Challenge Adventure Race) was only in the 9 minute range. Many technical running miles are completed in the 12+ minute range. I have however run many night training miles with this system down in the 7s and 8s without issue.

    Your results may vary.

    JB
    Last edited by ThinAirDesigns; 06-06-2017 at 10:42 AM.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    I imagine when you descended from Davenport Gap Shelter and approached I-40, your radio call went a little something like this:

    "Clingman's Tower, ME-056 with you on the localizer four OH right."
    "M.E. 056, roger, cleared to land four OH right."
    "Cleared to land four OH right, ME-056."



    So tell me, were there many UFO calls on the Haywood County, NC 911 log that weekend?

    That's a lotta light!

    When I do 1 day in the mountains (43 miles with about 3 lbs of food), I'm not pushing the 20 lb limit of my packs, so I won't hesitate to carry extra items I wouldn't otherwise carry on a three day trip. But when I hit that ceiling, luxuries have gotta go, or the ship starts to sink! The compromise I have to make with the extended range load is limiting myself to one or two lamps, raw weight of 30g each, plus batteries and headband (which is what my visor will slide onto). Fortunately, I consider 122-198 range on the ZL H53w to be way more light for my foreground light than I feel I could ever hope for.

    I read your warning about redundancy, and I'm definitely going to make a back-up light mandatory. I should know better, having had my former lamp take a deep six on me right when I began my first night trail running last October. Lucky thing I brought that 30 degree bag, although another headlamp would have been 21 oz lighter!

    Speaking of lucky, I'm not too far from your age and I can still run streets at night in my neighborhood without needing a lamp. It's dark between the street lamps, but I can adjust pretty well. Haven't fallen yet. I had some fun with sidewalks and driveways in the beginning, however. Now I keep to the asphalt at night.

    Thanks for sharing your lamps story with us! I was glad to finally see it.
    Last edited by Genzod; 06-07-2017 at 11:02 AM.
    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* stephenk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Genzod View Post
    How fast do you tend to move on the street with the 70 lumen floody Fenix HL10? Do you tend to aim the center of the beam at any particular distance from your feet?

    Your Fenix has a rotatable diffuser. Do you find that light is more pleasant to run with than with spot bounce generated by a running gait, or does it dim the light too much?
    I always aim the beam so that the lower edge of the beam is at my feet for the next foot strike. This usually results in the hotspot being 2-3m away. Running speed is typically 12kph for urban running.

    The Fenix HL10 beam options are very floody and even more floody. The diffuser doesn't make a huge difference, though makes the beam edge and hotspot slightly softer. My preference is diffused, though I'm not that fussy.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenk View Post
    I always aim the beam so that the lower edge of the beam is at my feet for the next foot strike. This usually results in the hotspot being 2-3m away. Running speed is typically 12kph for urban running.

    The Fenix HL10 beam options are very floody and even more floody. The diffuser doesn't make a huge difference, though makes the beam edge and hotspot slightly softer. My preference is diffused, though I'm not that fussy.
    If you don't mind, I'd like to link to your review of the Fenix HL10 and present a quote and a photo from it that I think is great advice to new runners reading this thread:

    "The 70 lumen brightness on high is sufficient for urban night running. 50 lumens is roughly the minimum for urban night running. If the light is angled so that edge of the beam is around the runners foot, then the path is well illuminated for around 10m ahead of the runner. This is a critical area so that the runner can plan their next few foot strikes. Nothing worse than mistaking a leaf or twig for a cane toad, spider, or snake! The hot spot beam can illuminate up to around 30m ahead of the runner if required. I should note that much brighter lights may annoy motorists, and thus 70 lumens is a good brightness for urban night running. "

    Beam shots:

    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  6. #36

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!


    I recently purchased a Zebralight H53w for trail running. I tested it out last night for urban running.

    Normally I don't use a headlamp at night for urban running. The streets tend to be well lit with street lamps spaced every 0.05 to 0.10 miles (80-160m). I live in a residential area that tends to be isolated from through-traffic, and I run at a time when most residents are already in bed and not in their cars on the road coming home. Provided I stay on the road and stay off the sidewalk, I'm fine. Get on the sidewalk and surprise, surprise, I'm tripping over driveways, meter access grates and tree root upheavals of concrete when the ambient light dims between street lamps.

    Last night using a setting of 65 lumens (Energizer AA Primary lithium) and a semitransparent medical glove fingertip stretched over the head to provide wide angle diffusion, I was able to successfully run on the sidewalk at a typical speed of about 6 mph (9.65 kph) without mishaps. It was very decent light when I traversed the sidewalk near the duck pond where there are no street lamps, only minuscule ambient light from distant houses.

    Removing the diffuser at the duck pond, the 12 degree spot filled the meter wide sidewalk where I tend to keep the light aimed, and I could see the spill focus of 80 degrees to each side which was in my opinion a much better concentration of light for paths the width of sidewalks and mountain trails. The edge of the spot was about 3 and 5 m ahead of me where I tend to look when I run in the dark at that speed (less when slower). The edge of the spill near my feet is about 1 meter ahead of me. I tilt my head down a little when I need to have spill light at my feet.

    I'm heading out to try this lamp on the mountain trails very soon. I suspect 65 lumens diffused or spot/spill will be plenty of light for fastpacking with an occasional boost to 122 lumens for really technical stuff and running downhill. Uphill is much slower and I think 26 lm will be good. There will be much less ambient light glare constricting my pupils limiting light, so the light will appear much brighter in that context. Plus, I will be running much slower due to terrain and pack weight, so I will not have to look very far ahead to anticipate obstacles, meaning light intensity on the path will be brighter with closer aim.

    The single strap headband doesn't' work well running, bobbying up and down from a running gait. I tried ThinAirDesigns advice and ran the band through the round holes of the lamp holder, and that stabilized the lamp. Unfortunately, the rubber holder became uncomfortable, the edges of it pressed into my forehead, so I think I'll need a sweatband to go underneath to make it work. Reversing a baseball cap and riding the mount on the cloth/velcro adjustment strap works, but the hat itself is uncomfortable in heat while running. Edit: I purchased a UA sweatband, and the light rides on it very comfortably.
    Last edited by Genzod; 08-18-2017 at 12:48 AM.
    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  7. #37
    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    For the past few years I have been using an Armytek Wizard Pro with XM-L2 S6 3000K 90CRI, mostly in the second highest mode (370lm).

    • At night I usually don't run faster than 5min/km (8:03/mi)
    • I look straight ahead as much as possible so that my running form doesn't deteriorate (maybe 10-50m)
    • I mostly run on paved roads, trails and sometimes normals paths in the woods. Nothing crazy.
    • The Armytek Wizard has a TIR optic with a built-in hexagonal diffusor. Together with the XM-L2 LED it produces an almost perfect beam for running. There is no bouncing spot (although this also depends on how good your running technique is, i.e. how high your cadence is) and the the range is good enough.
    • When it's raining I use the turbo mode with 630 Lumens.
    • The amount of light is great, it's easily enough.
    • Fog is ok, but snow is not so nice because the snow flakes basically got towards my eyes the whole time which is annoying.


    The only thing I want to improve is the tint. I think the 3000k is a bit too low for my taste. I find that it is easier to concentrate with a higher color temperature. I am thinking of having the light modded with an XP-L2 4000K 90CRI.

    The one thing that really annoys me and is really quite dangerous is the low battery warning. The main LEDs actually blinks multiple times to tell you this. When you are running downhill in the dark that is quite dangerous. In the winter (around 0°C) the light and the battery are much colder. This causes the low battery warning to start much earlier because cold batteries have a lower voltage. Using unprotected cells with a low internal resistance fixes this problem though.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post
    For the past few years I have been using an Armytek Wizard Pro with XM-L2 S6 3000K 90CRI...The one thing that really annoys me and is really quite dangerous is the low battery warning. The main LEDs actually blinks multiple times to tell you this. When you are running downhill in the dark that is quite dangerous. In the winter (around 0°C) the light and the battery are much colder. This causes the low battery warning to start much earlier because cold batteries have a lower voltage. Using unprotected cells with a low internal resistance fixes this problem though.
    We recently purchased a Wizard XPH50, and it seems the yellow switch blinks red or green depending on the message. I wasn't aware the main LED might blink when battery is low. Is that still the case with recent models?

    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  9. #39
    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    I have the Wizard v1. Armytek likes to change things...
    I would check the Manual and maybe just try it out before running (you can use your fridge to make the warnings come earlier).
    Last edited by The_Driver; 08-15-2017 at 03:28 AM.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post
    I have Wizard v1. Armytek likes to change things...
    I would check the Manual and maybe just try it out before running (you can use your fridge to make the warnings come earlier).
    I think we have an XHP50 Wizard v2. Manual only indicates battery level warnings are provided at 100, 25 and 10% by different colors of flashing light from the switch. Nothing about the LED flashing. My Zebralight uses the LED to flash battery level indication, but I have to activate that test by a sequence of 4 short clicks before it does that. I suspect it regulates output until first stepdown before it eventually and completely shuts down.
    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  11. #41

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    I usually alternate between my Petzl Tikka RXP and my Nitecore HC30. I tend to use the Petzl for most of my urban running and the HC30 for trails. Both weigh about the same. All depends on how far/long I intend to run. Both have ~200 Lumen modes which In my opinion is more then enough light for both urban and trail. Although I only use the Petzl Autonomy modes on trails as it doesn't do well when an oncoming car's lights shine towards it.

    But the HC30's silicone holder is extremely uncomfortable and it bobs a lot on my head. I DIY'd the HC30's bracket/holder onto the Petxl band with zip ties for a 100Miler earlier this year to try and get the best of both worlds...I wanted the battery life and lumens of the HC30 but the comfort of the Petzl. Worked fantastic and I only used one battery for the entire night, alternating between the 210 / 70 lumen modes depending on my pace and terrain, although it wasn't the prettiest setup.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    The new Olight H2S seems like it meets many requirements.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    Results of August trail running:

    After my trip from The Smokey Mountains where I viewed the eclipse, I traveled north to Virginia to camp and do some trail running. My section on the AT was from Hog Camp Gap to near the top of Chimney Rock in Three Ridges, then back. Total distance was about 47 miles--just under 16 hours total of running, about 7 hours at night.

    My weight was about 190 lbs stripped (could still stand to lose 25-30 lbs), about 3 lbs of worn dress and gear and 18 lbs in pack (including 3-1/2 lbs of food and 4 lbs of water). My averaged speed in the section was 3 mph, not counting about 4 hours of zero forward progress time and 4 hours of sleep. Based on elevation change only, I consider this section to be above average in difficulty for the AT. There are more technical sections in Maine and NH that have a lot of rock hopping and persistent roots that are especially perilous when wet. I encountered no rain or trail wetness, and the only rock hopping I encountered was during the day.

    Using my H53w, I found the 65 lumen setting to be more than adequate and I used it most of the time. Going uphill, I could stand to drop it to 30 lumens. I did not need a higher setting going downhill, although I didn't really encounter the steepest sections during the night. If I did I was anticipating using 122 lm for that. If I were just hiking (walking), I think the 30 lumen setting would have been plenty.

    I did have a few rock kicks that came close to falls. I have those every now and then, but I think it is more of a function of letting my mind drift than not enough light. If I were to do a serious run where I strung several of these days together, I think I would ensure my footing with a step up in intensity, that is, use 122 lm for most running, instead of 65 lm.

    Many people don't like to use spot/spill while trail running because of spot bounce. I wasn't annoyed by this, as I prefer to have a zone of higher intensity in the narrow trail corridor. The spill up close has such short range, it's about as bright as the spot 3-5m ahead of me. The spill to the sides only lights up the forest and is sufficient light to warn me of sudden surprises from Freddy Kruger or Big Foot. On a wider open area like urban running on a road, I like to fit the finger of a semi-transparent sterile glove over the lamp to diffuse the light.

    The beauty of the Zebralight H53w is its programmable range of settings. I was comfortable most of the time with the options of 122/65/30 lumens (down/flat/up). If I need more light due to improvement in performance or just a need for insurance, I can choose 197/122/65. Although I probably wouldn't require it, I could even go to 275/197/122 or 330/275/197, if I really wanted to see a spike in Energizer stock (CEO Alan Hoskins could buy himself a new yacht.). That's why I selected this lamp. With stabilization and seating improvement techniques discussed previously, it's so lightweight and comfortable, I hardly notice it's on my head except for the light coming from it.

    I had to replace a battery at one point early in the run. Not wanting to dig around for the replacement (I apparently moved it to a "better" location while packing) I ran with the back up lamp for a while, a Manker/BLF/Astrolux A6 cool white in 18350 configuration. I chose a setting comparable to 65 lm on the ZL. The cool white tint was 6500K. Compared to the ZLH53w's 4500K, the tint difference was night and day. Contrasted, I liked the calming effect of the 4500K light better with improved color rendering of browns and greens. By itself though, it was hard for me to discern tint differences being that I'm an "amateur" when it comes to light. The ZLH53w just seemed like good, white light, perfect for forest colors.
    Last edited by Genzod; 09-12-2017 at 07:27 PM.
    General Zod: "So this is planet Houston." Superman II (1980)

  14. #44
    Flashaholic xcandrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    In the winter, sunset can be 3-4 pm here, so most runs are night. Therefore, getting by with a low output solution doesn't make sense. I also don't want a different light for skiing vs. running vs. cycling, though I mostly ski and run in the winter. Bike and skiing headlamps, as well as orienteering headlamps (same as cross country skiing lights) are very well developed and useful, unlike the headlamps marketed to American runners. There are also low cost bike lights that aren't anemic, so that's what I'm using now.

    I started doing night trail runs in the '90s in CA. If running in neighborhoods, multiuse paths, roads, no light was needed to see, but trails were another thing. There was a 12 mile loop that I often ran that was about 7-8 miles on trails. Most of the time, I would just go without a light. This would sometimes be totally fine when the ambient light was sufficient. For example overcast conditions would create a kind of glow even under the oak trees from light refracted from moonlight, distant city streetlights, and stars. Other times, such as with strong direct moonlight, or just very dark wet conditions, I wouldn't be able to see the ground at all under the trees, and it would feel like a black hole under the trees. I'd have to slow down from my daytime pace, but I enjoyed doing it for the adventure aspect. Animals active at night, like deer, mountain lions, bobcats, coyote, fox, squirrels, wild turkey, wild boar made it even more of an adventure. The headlamps that I sometimes used in the '90s were close to useless, except to help me see the ground under the trees, still at an inching-along pace. These headlamps included the Princeton Tec Solo, a 2AA halogen with very low lumens, and then a Princeton Tec Aurora, a 3 Nichia? LED headlamp with maybe 10-20 lumens.

    When I joined this forum, I think my first post here was a review of the Princeton Tec EOS, which had just come out and would later be a favorite for modifications. I think it was around 30 lumens stock initially. That made it much more useful that the Aurora, but the beam was too narrow, and it was still too dim. I eventually modified it with a Seoul P4 emitter upgrade, and a Mc-18(?something like that?) reflector swap that made it the first headlamp that I had that was actually functional for running at night on trails. I think it put out about 100 lumens after the modification, and the beam was finally wide enough that I could point the hotspot up the trail while still being able to use the spill to see in front of my feet, as well as the side peripheries. I also added a homebrew external pack, so I could use it on the high setting continuously because the lower levels were useless for running. So I'd say that about 100 lumens is the minimum that I'd find useful for running, and that's only with a good optic or reflector that provides a good mix of spill and distance at the same time. Running pace would be reduced from daylight running pace. Maybe 7-11 minutes per mile on trails in dry conditions or packed snow (in AK by then).

    Rain and wet ground makes things really, really dark. 100 lumens gets mostly absorbed, little gets reflected back, and it might only be bright enough for walking pace some nights on rooty trails. Sometimes even 1200 lumens in those light-sucking situations is just enough for running. You might have experienced similar situations while driving two lane road in middle of nowhere in the rain with faded lines, where you can barely see the road. When snow arrives, everything is much improved at night, and is much welcomed after a dark fall. Not all snow is equal though. Sometimes it's no more reflective than dry ground, but it's better than wet ground.

    I have since used a succession of bike lights for running since the first Magicshine MJ-808 ("900 lumens", really about 600 lumens initially) maybe about 10 years ago, which was a copy of the Lupine Tesla. This was followed by the Gemini Lights Xera (about 800 lumens? initially, single emitter), Gemini Duo 1500 (dual emitter, 1200+ Lumens actual), and now a cheap copy of the Duo, the Yinding 900 (actual 1200 lumens). I have mostly used 2x18650 packs with my bike headlamps, with a burn time on high about 1-1.5 hours. Since most of my runs or skis are about 1.5-2.5 hours, I tend to use the medium setting most of the time to make sure I don't run out of battery life before I'm done.

    On the Yinding, medium is about 600 lumens. Pace varies a lot depending on the trail and what I'm doing, but I'd only drop to low (maybe 300 lumens) if I'm walking or running up a ridge/mountain at night, or anticipate a long outing and don't want to run out of battery life. One purpose of having sufficient light is to not have a difference between my nighttime pace compared to my daytime pace. I have a lot of Strava course records for downhills that I actually have run at night. Paces for some of those nighttime efforts include about 4:47 pace per mile average for 2+ miles down a trail with 1200 lumens blazing. I sometimes top out close to 4:00 pace (15 mph) on parts of those downhills.

    Mountain bikers typically run one light on the handlebars and one light on the helmet, each with 800-1500 lumens max or more. A strong runner on trails is really not much different than a mountain biker. I think I read that typical local cross country mountain bike races, semi-technical and with ups and downs are won at 9-11 mph (daytime). I also run 10+ mph in the local trail races that are held on the same trails. When a mountain biker is riding uphill as slowly as a typical runner, they might turn down their lights, but they don't turn their lights down to 100 lumens for good reason. Their lights vary, but have a good broad spread for at least one of their lights to make sure it's not tunnel vision. My Yinding has a very broad spread of light with a good center weighting ( https://youtu.be/RKj0zs9IbdY ). 300 or 600 lumens, when spread out, isn't overpowering. And when compared to 100 lumens, you just see better. You see the roots, ruts, rocks on the ground. You don't have tunnel vision. And, importantly here, you see the eyeshine of the moose and bears in the woods (or neighborhood here) before you run into them, even if you aren't going fast.

    Other conditions: In a blizzard with really blowing snow, I've found that the more lumens the better. I've been in a blizzard where 1200 lumens was just enough (and wanted more), while 600 and 300 were too low.

    In Europe, especially Scandinavia, where it's as dark as it is here in the winter, and where orienteering is popular, they have the right idea with their orienteering/skiing headlamps. There, runners racing through the woods at night use headlamps like the LEDX Cobra with 6500 lumens - no one there thinking 100 lumens is enough for running in the woods. Here's my thread from last winter: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-Orienteering)
    Last edited by xcandrew; 09-22-2017 at 01:06 AM.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    I use a Fenix HL10 2016 for my once or twice a week morning runs, as well as general use and power outages. I like the convenience of using a single AAA as well as that it's comfortable and lightweight; it weighs about 2 oz total.

    I'm sure there's brighter and longer running lamps out there but I rarely use it more than 45 minutes at a time and really dislike large bulky contraptions on my head. So this works well for me. Despite being rated at 70 lumens it looks closer to 100 to me and is plenty bright for my humble needs. It's a cooler tint but never bothered me in rain or fog.

    In the future I may look into something more potent, or conversely something as bright and smaller if possible but for now it works.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Fenix HL-23 on medium most of the time, which is about 50LM.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers and Urban Runners please share!

    Looking forward to reading this thread, very timely after my old headlamp was badly damaged and needs replacing. For walking on familiar smooth ground or trails, 60 lumen range is fine, and for less familiar trails or rougher trails with lots of rocks and roots, +120 lumen range. I know some walkers who suggest using 2 lights, one headlamp and one at waist level. I prefer to stick with one headlamp.

    Just posted a similar discussion from the standpoint of backpacking first, then trail running. Amazed by how LED tech has progressed. The current runtimes and lumens available for single AA and 18650 are amazing.

    Looking at both AA models and 18650 models. For AA, been looking at the Zebralight H53W, Armytek Tiara A1 V2 XP-L and Thrunite TH20 and still collecting suggestions. For AA I'm leaning toward the H53W.

    For 18650 still collecting suggestions. Prefer neutral white over cold-blue white. Like beam with both flood and some spot for distance. Leaning toward the H600w Mk III XHP35 Neutral White.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...82#post5139382
    Last edited by mountainwalker; 10-08-2017 at 08:43 AM.

  18. #48
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners, What Lamps Do You Use?

    Fenix HL55! Own two and use them both for mountain hiking, running and ultra races !

    Generally use 165 lumens, at least on easy trails or even technical climbs! For fast downhills or technical terrain normally jump up to 420 lumens!

    Sometimes use only 50 if on a moonlit night or moving next to several other hikers or runners on easy terrain!

    Always also carry a PD31 to have some throw and be able to check out landscape features further away!
    Last edited by Labrador72; 10-08-2017 at 10:30 AM.

  19. #49

    Default Center Hotspot+Flood or Flood? Re: Trail Runners, Fastpackers & Urban Runners

    Up to now I've always used headlamps that have a center hotspot + peripheral flood, for a combination of punch in the center for distance and flood for peripheral vision, as I found earlier floody lamps didn't offer enough distance illumination (this was years ago). I prefer warmer neutral tints to cold blue white. I'm about to pick up some new headlamps and beam pattern is the last feature I'm considering on the list. To continue my typical beam pattern up to now I was looking at the Zebralight H53W and H600W headlamps.

    For backpacking (not running) do you prefer a Floody beam or Center Hotspot + Flood beam?

    For backpacking, I typically use headlamps on very low settings in camp, and occasionally use higher settings for when hiking has been extended into late hours to reach a better camp spot, or when starting out in the dark of the middle of the night. Otherwise I don't typically plan to cover long stretches of trail in the dark over many hours.

    For night hiking and trail running, do you prefer a Floody beam or Center Hotspot + Flood beam?

    For hiking and trail running, I use my headlamp on medium-high settings when hikes or runs finish in dark hours especially in winter. Typically this is on local trails I know well and generally this is between 30 min to an hour and only sometimes a bit longer.

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