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Thread: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

  1. #31

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    If it's only a 90 lumen emitter, sounds like we'd need a triple optic. Source it to Mtn Electronics or somebody. I personally would prefer an optic with a more concentrated hotspot as opposed to the overly diffused ones.

  2. #32
    kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    If it's only a 90 lumen emitter, sounds like we'd need a triple optic.

    I personally would prefer an optic with a more concentrated hotspot as opposed to the overly diffused ones.
    Two more points I fully agree with!
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by ddaniel View Post
    Hello guys,

    we are planning on making LED flashlight, surely with our ultra high CRI LED light source, do you have any suggestion on the parameter decision? Like lumen, product appearance, battery type, functions, etc.

    Any comment or advise is greatly appreciated!
    Forget it.

    Focus your efforts on establishing a US-based distributor for your LEDs.

    Think Digikey or Mouser.
    Jim

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* snakebite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    i have seen lights with domeless 3030 in a reflector that did fairly well.
    i thought it would be nice to use the yuji leds to mod things.
    but the barrier to entry being high means that we fall back to what is tried and true.
    if these leds could be obtained easily i bet you would see a lot of mods and customs using them.then you would already have insight as to what works well.
    you might post at budgetlightforum.com too

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Best of luck for your endeavor !

    I suggest you to keep the size of flashlight small so that it do not cover the area, but instead works for what it meant to be. Flashlights are for decorative purpose and it should not show2 itself but illuminate others.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Sadly the market for high-CRI flashlights is fairly limited. Most people only care about brightness. I'd love to see Olight make lights with high-CRI emitters.

    On the other hand, there is a big market for video continuous lights with high CRI, and a panel like the Manfrotto Spectra will feature hundreds of LEDs:
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ght_5600k.html

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozythemandias View Post
    There's a void in the market for high CRI and light, headlamps, preferably I'd like one cr123, AA or AAA.

    There's also zero right angle high CRI triples on the market.
    This! Would love a high CRI dedicated headlamp and a triple angle light.

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Another chirp from me: just occurred to me where we all need high cri edc, but are now limping by with subpar leds : INDOORS WITH OUR POCKET CAMERA PHONES!!

    Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics.


    As a high cri agnostic, lacking proof that high cri helps me see subtle color variations when using or color matching, after 12 years and thousands of tests, including 150 close shades charts on one page, the improvement of high cri in camera was certain. Human made cameras are 100 cri optimized, and less able to adjust than human eye.
    Last edited by degarb; 06-19-2017 at 06:12 AM.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    Another chirp from me: just occurred to me where we all need high cri edc, but are now limping by with subpar leds : INDOORS WITH OUR POCKET CAMERA PHONES!!

    Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics.


    As a high cri agnostic, lacking proof that high cri helps me see subtle color variations when using or color matching, after 12 years and thousands of tests, including 150 close shades charts on one page, the improvement of high cri in camera was certain. Human made cameras are 100 cri optimized, and less able to adjust than human eye.
    No not really. Cameras can do just fine with <100 CRI, even with fairly poor CRI, though somewhat flat spectrum helps. Biggest issues are monitor calibration, trade-offs in the RGB pattern demosaicing, differences between capture filters and display spectrums, etc. Trying to catch the subtlety of color with only three broadband sensors results in trade-offs, though in theory if the capture and display have the same spectral characteristics, you can get very close. You are adding in narrow band reflectance issues of the objects you are viewing/etc.

    As opposed to high-cri, dual white point LEDs systems are being used which creates more data points.

    Most people are happier with colors that are more saturated than reality and would pick those almost always anyway when it comes to photography.

  10. #40
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    I'll Consider an aaa 4000k and an 18650 5600k!.
    Im in!.
    Love to Yuji!.
    Nichia 219b 4500k 9080

  11. #41
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by ssanasisredna View Post
    No not really. Cameras can do just fine with <100 CRI, even with fairly poor CRI, though somewhat flat spectrum helps. Biggest issues are monitor calibration, trade-offs in the RGB pattern demosaicing, differences between capture filters and display spectrums, etc. Trying to catch the subtlety of color with only three broadband sensors results in trade-offs, though in theory if the capture and display have the same spectral characteristics, you can get very close. You are adding in narrow band reflectance issues of the objects you are viewing/etc.

    As opposed to high-cri, dual white point LEDs systems are being used which creates more data points.

    Most people are happier with colors that are more saturated than reality and would pick those almost always anyway when it comes to photography.
    Dual white. You mean like my crude trick of wearing a cool on head and warm of wrist, for color skip/streak hunting while painting? Or visa versa.

    Can you think of any useful situation where the Yuji on battery would be worth the premium?

    My concern too is reduced luminance per watt will be a regression in color perception, not an improvement. Unless, runtime does not matter and the Yuji could be pumped furiously with current.

    Sorry to say, just got a new Nichia 219b 4000 Kelvin flashlight in the mail yesterday. Compared to my xpl hi, the only situation it was better was upclose on red and red heavy wood (even compared to the warm xpl hi) . At any distance greater than 10 foot, it was crushed by the 4300 Kelvin xpl hi for color, as it was just plain dimmer. All my research keeps saying, color is cri, gai, and luminance, combined. Both the Nichia and xpl hi 4300 Kelvin light, shift the powder blues toward teal, when they are pure blue. And I got to hand it, the 6500 xpl hi is way better than most xml from the 2014 Era and before, still selling inside cheap lights.

    All tests were done at 2.1 amps, New Panasonic 3400s. I will test current with alternate mm later. Hoping my early impressions are correct, and not way off what is achievable with the hi cri emitter. If the Nichia could be pumped double current from my tests, it might keep up with the other two, and surpass in color rendering for the eye.

    Really, the high cri Nichia has brought me no closer to the perfect task light. Still need that cool for good blue. And I am not sure about the swap choice of lumens for better red.
    Last edited by degarb; 06-21-2017 at 06:41 AM.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  12. #42
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Testing current next morning with a good multimeter, the Nichia may have been driven at 75% the xpl hi. Probably 70 percent as efficient, these 4300kelvin go to v5 bin. This would put the Nichia at 475 lumen v. 900 lumen cool xpl and probably 800 is for the warm. The xpl could have a more efficient driver, who knows. This would account for the non-trivial difference between the two emitter brands. So, still an agnostic. I would still be compelled, against my will, to buy a Yuji light, just for professional curiosity. That is, unless specs looked horrible.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    Dual white. You mean like my crude trick of wearing a cool on head and warm of wrist, for color skip/streak hunting while painting? Or visa versa.

    Can you think of any useful situation where the Yuji on battery would be worth the premium?

    My concern too is reduced luminance per watt will be a regression in color perception, not an improvement. Unless, runtime does not matter and the Yuji could be pumped furiously with current.

    Sorry to say, just got a new Nichia 219b 4000 Kelvin flashlight in the mail yesterday. Compared to my xpl hi, the only situation it was better was upclose on red and red heavy wood (even compared to the warm xpl hi) . At any distance greater than 10 foot, it was crushed by the 4300 Kelvin xpl hi for color, as it was just plain dimmer. All my research keeps saying, color is cri, gai, and luminance, combined. Both the Nichia and xpl hi 4300 Kelvin light, shift the powder blues toward teal, when they are pure blue. And I got to hand it, the 6500 xpl hi is way better than most xml from the 2014 Era and before, still selling inside cheap lights.

    All tests were done at 2.1 amps, New Panasonic 3400s. I will test current with alternate mm later. Hoping my early impressions are correct, and not way off what is achievable with the hi cri emitter. If the Nichia could be pumped double current from my tests, it might keep up with the other two, and surpass in color rendering for the eye.

    Really, the high cri Nichia has brought me no closer to the perfect task light. Still need that cool for good blue. And I am not sure about the swap choice of lumens for better red.
    Everything you are saying here makes complete sense. Color discrimination is better at higher lighting levels which makes high CRI at low lighting levels a curiosity but not a necessity. I could add in that at low levels, we tend to prefer warmer colors, which further throws your discrimination of blues out the window if followed.

    I expect Yuji will just get an existing flashlight supplier to put their emitter in it and slap their name on it with perhaps a few UI tweaks, so development cost is likely to be low. There are likely people who will get pulled in by the high-cri whether there is a good objective reason to or not to cover the development. That said, serious lighting customers will wonder "why" they would go down this avenue unless it is purely for giveaways.

  14. #44
    Flashaholic* KITROBASKIN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Guessing that distributors are not so interested in these Yuji LED's, thinking that demand is not strong enough, and so Yuji is making an effort to make their product known through us.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* KITROBASKIN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Let's hear an update from Daniel.
    Last edited by KITROBASKIN; 06-22-2017 at 10:40 PM.

  16. #46
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Got this reply from Yuji;

    In fact, we are recently facing some problems in producing flash lights.

    Our LEDs do not have lens on the surface.





    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    Let's hear an update from Daniel.
    Nichia 219b 4500k 9080

  17. #47
    Flashaholic* KITROBASKIN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Thank You for providing that information!

    (neutralwhite: your mailbox is full)

  18. #48
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Cleared thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    Thank You for providing that information!

    (neutralwhite: your mailbox is full)
    Nichia 219b 4500k 9080

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    People obviously have opinions all over the map. If Yuji wants the largest possible appeal on one light, make it easy for opinionated flashaholics to change on their own: optics, battery tube, switches, and driver programming. If Yuji sells their high CRI LED on a thick multi-LED board with a good open source driver and multiple options for battery sizes, inside of a decent host, there will be lots of sales to the general public, modders, and collectors. The host should have more heat sinking than the D4 to allow for some massive heat off of the high-CRI LED. A solid copper head might be really cool-looking and effective...

  20. #50

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    Got this reply from Yuji;

    In fact, we are recently facing some problems in producing flash lights.

    Our LEDs do not have lens on the surface.
    Curious. When I look at their datasheet for the 3030 series, the spatial distribution graph looks almost identical to an XP-L HI, as I suspected it might. I actually quickly overlayed the two in an image editor, and once scaled the same, the lines overlapped for a lot of the graph.

    Granted, the emitting surface is smaller than that of an XP-L HI, but I kind of expected it would still work fairly well in a small reflector.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Keitho View Post
    People obviously have opinions all over the map. If Yuji wants the largest possible appeal on one light, make it easy for opinionated flashaholics to change on their own: optics, battery tube, switches, and driver programming. If Yuji sells their high CRI LED on a thick multi-LED board with a good open source driver and multiple options for battery sizes, inside of a decent host, there will be lots of sales to the general public, modders, and collectors. The host should have more heat sinking than the D4 to allow for some massive heat off of the high-CRI LED. A solid copper head might be really cool-looking and effective...
    Is "lots" more or less than 1000? General public for the most part wants lumens, and 90CRI is more than good enough, and more lumens is often better. Modders and collectors? ... that is not going to even get a business started let alone sustain one.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by iamlucky13 View Post
    Curious. When I look at their datasheet for the 3030 series, the spatial distribution graph looks almost identical to an XP-L HI, as I suspected it might. I actually quickly overlayed the two in an image editor, and once scaled the same, the lines overlapped for a lot of the graph.

    Granted, the emitting surface is smaller than that of an XP-L HI, but I kind of expected it would still work fairly well in a small reflector.
    Could be a near field / far field issue. Far field they are the same, near field, where an optic would come into play, they could be different.

  23. #53
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight

    Any update from Yuji now ?.
    Nichia 219b 4500k 9080

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