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Thread: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Well, I'm very happy with my 3C mag mod. This light is great, although I want to make something a little bit smaller next time.

    I found some nice 2C mags at home depot and felt this would be a great size.

    I need everyones feedback on the following setups.

    Lux III is a SX1J...Using Hotlips HS from Hotbeam.

    1) Will 3 123's fit in a 2C mag? How can I acomplish this (Sleve etc?)

    2) would I be better off Boosting the power from 2C's to 750ma or limiting the power from 2 or 3 123's to 1 amp? etc.

    3)From the above, what would be the best choice (batteries and converter combo)(best runtime at highest brightness possible)? What would be the least complicated?

    thanks,
    JI

  2. #2

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Last edited by Gadget_Guru; 01-15-2006 at 07:59 PM.
    Darron
    In the beautiful Adirondack Park, northern NY state

  3. #3

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Cut waaaay short, put 9V in sideways, run a 5W HD Luxeon - for an instant, anyways...

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* IsaacHayes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    See Orions thread about 750ma boost using 2 cells. It can be done as people have done it. I'd use a BB600-750 and pot it in the base of the hotlips. 123's would be silly in such a large light to power only a luxIII. Plus they are harder to come across...

    I was going to suggest putting a red or red/orange in there and DD'ing off of 2 C's for a long throw red mod. But I see you have a luxiii there...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    hey guy's I really do not understand either of these 2 mods lol...I have no clue where to get Li-ion or a charger and all that stuff, it doe snto sound very practicle for me...Id rather use disposable 123's or C's or NIMH...But I need to figure out if 3 123's can fit without ordering them because I have nothing else to use them for. As far as cutting the light I don't have a tap or anything like that to add new threads. Just want something a little smaller than my 3C...With decent runtime..

    I already have a hotlips and SX1J bin Lux III I want to use.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    For Lithium-Ion cells and chargers, eBay is the place to look. Lots of surplus and used batts and chargers for obsolete cell phones there.

    I just got a great deal on eBay, which included:

    Two batteries for the Qualcomm 820. Each has two 18650 Li-Ion cells inside in series, and a nice, small protection circuit. Still running them through my Triton charger to measure actual capacity, but I think they're around 1350mAh.

    Two chargers- one for a cigarette lighter in a car, the other for home use. The best part? Both batteries and both chargers were a total of one cent...

    Darron R. Birgenheier
    Brantingham, NY

  7. #7
    Flashaholic illumiGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    3x123 fits very nicely in a 2C Mag. Use some PVC or PEX pipe for a diameter adapter (and wrap it in Duct tape to get the pipe to fit without rattling). I used 3/4" x 7/8" Hot/Cold Pex pipe, and it's a perfect fit for 123 cells.

    3x123 is slightly longer than 2xC so I trimmed a little off the rear spring so it wouldn't be too tight (I thought it was too tight even with the stock C cells).

    I'm running mine with a GH24 lamp (6V/1.7A) and at this over-drive level I'm probably getting around 15 watts output. Bright as hell, and very white for an incandescent light. Battery life is not too great, but it's FUN while it lasts.

    Take a look at this thread for more info on 2C/3x123 incan mods...

    If I was going to do a 2C/3x123 LED version, I would probably make a battery adapter that would run them in parallel and use a boost circuit.

    Another option would be to get some 4/5 Sub-C cells and run them DD. If I remember right, 3 of those should be the same length as 2xC and should drive a Lux 3W very bright.

    Anyway... just a few suggestions.

    Aloha, iG

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Gadget, I have some old cell phone battery packs if I cut those apart there are Li-Ion cells inside?

    illimiGeek, im very interested in running them in parallel for the Lux III.

    What is the advantage in running them in parallel with a boost circuit vs running them in series with a limiting circuit? I thought the limiting circuits were more efficient?

    Finaly if I choose 3x123 would I be better off using a Lux V? I hear they do not last as long as the Lux III

    Thanks for the ideas.
    JI

  9. #9

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Justintoxicated, you'll need to see if the label on the cell phone's pack tells you what chemistry it uses. It should say one of these:

    NiCd (Nickel Cadmium)
    NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride)
    Li-Ion (Lithium Ion)
    Li-Po (Lithium Polymer)

    The last two chemistries have only been in wide use for a few years in cell phones, so there's no guarantee an older phone would have them.

    If the phone pack uses one of the last two types, it will also contain a protection circuit to prevent over and under voltage, which can damage a lithium cell (sometimes with rather catastrophic results).

    If you're VERY aware of the characteristics of Li-Ion cells, you can charge and run them bare.

    Darron R. Birgenheier
    Brantingham, NY

  10. #10

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    illumiGeek , you're right about the 4/5 Sub-C cells. Three of them will fit very well inside a 2C M@g, and will direct drive my TWAK LuxIII at about 1100mA when fully charged. This is with 18-year old cells from an old Makita cordless drill, newer cells should do slightly better.

    Darron R. Birgenheier
    Brantingham, NY

  11. #11

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Another thought- three regular Sub-C cells will fit in the 2C M@g with a minor mod: the tailcap's inside diameter needs to be enlarged, and the spring removed and a shorter one substituted inside the tailcap.

    Regular Sub-C cells are available in up to 3300mAH capacity, while 4/5 Sub-C cells are much harder to find, and have far less capacity.

    Darron R. Birgenheier
    Brantingham, NY

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    what about running it on 123's? I was thinking that I would like to run it on 123's or just 2C and a booster circuit if possible. You mean I can remove the spring and fit a 3rd cell in a 2C?

  13. #13
    Flashaholic admedeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    You can get 3 C's in a 2D body if you cut the spring. The 2D body is slightly larger, but then you could DD the LUXIII the the Hotlips. OR you could run 3X123 in the 2C and DD a 5W, if you could find a nice one. I have one of each of these configurations and pleased with both.

    David

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    the 2D is too big for my tasts, I'd rather use a 3C than a 2D, Bu tI already have a modded 3C mag...

    Im thinking about using 2C and a booster circuit or 3 123 and something like a downboy. Im not sure how much better one would be over the other. I'd prefer to use C batteries but if the 123 would with a down-converter would be way better Ill go with that.

    Again what is the advantage of using 3 123's in parallel with a boost circuit??

  15. #15
    *Flashaholic* IsaacHayes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    You could wire up 3 123's in parallel but that could be hard and you'd have to do that each time you change battieres. You'd get 3x the runtime of 1 123.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic illumiGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    The reason I wouldn't go with a Downboy is that the Lux slug has to be insulated from the heatsink (electrically) and that will affect the thermal efficiency. The brighness of a Lux (not to mention its lifespan) if affected by its temperature, and I know of no way to electrically insulate the slug without a significant impact on the thermal coupling.

    For a 1W that is not driven at very high currents it's probably not significant, but when dealing with 3W driven hard (1A or more) the thermal impact would be greater. With better cooling you should be able to get higher, and more maintainable brighteness.

    Then again, I may be completely wrong about this. I have not verified it with experimentation. But the thermal data on Luxeons shows a negative relationship between temperature and brighness (& lifespan).

    In a 2C host it should not be too difficult to rig a parallel adapter for 3x123 cells. There is plenty of room around the batteries in both length and width.

    As for boost circuits being less efficient than buck circuits, I don't know about that? Is that true?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    I've not been able to measure any continuity between the LIII's slug and either lead. I just use Arctic Silver thermal epoxy to adhere the emitter to the HotLips, or other home-made heatsinks. Works fine...

    Darron

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    [ QUOTE ]
    illumiGeek said:
    The reason I wouldn't go with a Downboy is that the Lux slug has to be insulated from the heatsink (electrically) and that will affect the thermal efficiency. The brighness of a Lux (not to mention its lifespan) if affected by its temperature, and I know of no way to electrically insulate the slug without a significant impact on the thermal coupling.

    For a 1W that is not driven at very high currents it's probably not significant, but when dealing with 3W driven hard (1A or more) the thermal impact would be greater. With better cooling you should be able to get higher, and more maintainable brighteness.

    Then again, I may be completely wrong about this. I have not verified it with experimentation. But the thermal data on Luxeons shows a negative relationship between temperature and brighness (& lifespan).

    In a 2C host it should not be too difficult to rig a parallel adapter for 3x123 cells. There is plenty of room around the batteries in both length and width.

    As for boost circuits being less efficient than buck circuits, I don't know about that? Is that true?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually I jsut plan on using the circuit to regulate voltages. The Lux III itself will be attached to the hotlips Heatsink, and Ill put the circuit behind the hotlips. THere should be plenty of room.

    Can someone explain why I would not want to use 3 123's in series with a buck circuit?

  19. #19
    Flashaholic illumiGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    [ QUOTE ]
    Gadget_Guru said:
    I've not been able to measure any continuity between the LIII's slug and either lead. I just use Arctic Silver thermal epoxy to adhere the emitter to the HotLips, or other home-made heatsinks. Works fine...

    Darron

    [/ QUOTE ]Hmmm... that's interesting. The docs for the Downboy says the slug is ground and must be insulated from the sink (electrical ground).

  20. #20

    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    My DMM goes up to at least a couple megaohms, but can't find continuity, even at this high impedance. I am testing with the emitter epoxied to the heatsink, with one of the DMM's probes on the heatsink, and the other moving between the two LED leads. Perhaps the Arctic Silver thermal epoxy is doing a better job of electrically insulating than the maker claims.

    Darron

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    It's no big deal, the white emitter's slug is - so it can be connected to the ground without issues. This is how Im running my Lux III and its fine.

    I just don't understand why it would be bad to use 3 123's with a buck circuit? Or how this setup would compare to 2C's with a boost circuit. I don't really want to make a special pack to run 3 123's in parallel because I have no idea how to do this.

    Thanks,
    JI

  22. #22
    Flashaholic illumiGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    Justintoxicated , if you look at the docs for the Downboy it says that the emitter can not be grounded to the sink. It suggests using an extra layer of thermal adhesive to insulate it. But this would affect thermal transfer.

    Maybe I'm being overly concerned here, but my experience with heavily overclocked CPUs has shown that a little too much thermal compound affects temperature. Contrary to popular belief, thermal compounds are not very good conductors of heat. They are just better than air and are designed to fill the voids where device to heatsink contact is not perfect.

    For proper heat transfer you need as much device to heatsink contact as possible. When all of the thermal coupling is through compound (no direct contact) thermal coupling is quite poor and the device will run significantly hotter.

    Thermal data on the Luxeons indicates a hot Lux puts out less light than a cool Lux, and will have a shorter life (lumen loss). I have a 1W Lux mod that is not very well cooled (small heat sink that gets too hot to touch), and I can see it dimming after a few minutes of continuous use. It seems to recover after it cools down (and I have run it for more than an hour continuously without failure so the cooling must at least be adequate), but I'm sure it will not last anywhere near its rated life.

    Maybe I'm just being paranoid here, but my experience with the 1W seems to indicate that better cooling = brighter. Since the whole point of running more powerful 3W & 5W parts is more light, it seems to me that maximum cooling efficiency is a key factor.

    Then again, maybe I'm just [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    Aloha, iG

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    I understand your concern but again it will not matter much in this case. It probably says that for the converter because the spec sheets for the Emitters and Lux III also says this.

    My main concern is the difference between running 3 123's in series with a Bucj Circuit vs running 3 123's in parallel with a boost circuit.. Vs just running 2 C's with a boost circuit.

    I need to decide which of these methods is most pratical. No1 has told me what is wrong with running 3 123's in series.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    so if I use 3 123's and a DB converter I can pull a constant 1 amp?

    or would I be better off uisng 2 C's and BB converter?

    Or canone somone maybe explain how I can make a booster circuit myself?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    ok well I still have no clue how to get 1amp out of a 2C light, I looked at converter boards and don't see anything designed to be used with 1 amp..

    I also don't understand why I should not use 3x123 in series with a buck circuit...

    So I really have no clue how to do this. Maybe I should just sell my Lux III and Hotlips?

    Does anyone know how to do this?

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* IsaacHayes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    If you want 1 amp, then you could do 2x123 with a DB 1000. Or you could even do 3x123, allthough I'm not sure how much runtime would be improved, but you'd have extra energy being wasted too.. 2C's with a BB1000 would not stay in regulation long at all, and wouldn't be able to supply 1 amp as the draw on the alks would be way over 1 amp and they wouldn't do it.
    Best to post the question in the Sandwich Shoppe forum...

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Need Some Ideas For next 2C m@g mod

    [ QUOTE ]
    IsaacHayes said:
    If you want 1 amp, then you could do 2x123 with a DB 1000. Or you could even do 3x123, allthough I'm not sure how much runtime would be improved, but you'd have extra energy being wasted too.. 2C's with a BB1000 would not stay in regulation long at all, and wouldn't be able to supply 1 amp as the draw on the alks would be way over 1 amp and they wouldn't do it.
    Best to post the question in the Sandwich Shoppe forum...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok I guess Ill Ask over there, I really want a 2C light I must have one :P or else Ill have to do the old 3x123 DD a Lux V mod, but I don't have any money for extra LED's right now. But I could put it off untill I mod Lux 5's into my headlights on my ATV...

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