EMP proof flashlight

Cobraman502

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I'm curious to know if anyone has tested a flashlight against an EMP. I would think that copper flashlights might act like an emp shield.
 

Str8stroke

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

Since I started collecting lights, I stopped testing the Compton effect. My days of setting off Thermonuclear Warheads in the backyard are pretty much so over with. Not to mention the updated HOA rules strictly prohibit Nuclear testing. Not really sure why.
 

Ozythemandias

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

Aren't all reflector lights a sort of a Faraday cage?
 

pageyjim

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

Store your batteries and a couple flashlights in a Faraday cage along with a solar charger. I imagine unprotected cells would be more likely to survive in any event. I love these threads but I think they get shut down sometimes.
 

Timothybil

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

Aren't all reflector lights a sort of a Faraday cage?
Close, but not exactly. A true Faraday cage is grounded, so unless you happen to be holding the light at the time, or it is otherwise somewhat in contact with a ground, the protection is not complete. On the other hand, especially if the reflector is metal or metallicized and in contact with the head, the inner works are somewhat protected. If the pulse is strong enough to produce strong eddy currents in the body and head, some damage could still occur, but if you are that close to a pulse, there will probably other things to worry about. Personally, that is why I keep the incan P60s from my Surefire lights around. Living out here in the wilds of Iowa, with the closest targets fifty to sixty miles away, a nuclear EMP pulse should not affect my lights. On the other hand, it would probably take out enough of the electronics infrastructure between here and there to cause myriad other problems. A few upper atmosphere bursts or a large coronal mass would probably send us back to the 1800s rather quickly.
 

vadimax

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

I guess any light that is off at the moment and has a mechanical switch is safe -- there is no closed circuit to burn.
 

irongate

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They do make bags that are EMP proof, check on AM. for them.
It takes about 3-4 days for the effects to hit earth from the Sun. This latest flare up should not effect us at all here in the states from what I'm reading, to the point of knocking out our flashlights.

Always a interesting topic on what it would really do-have a open mind and be nice to different views.
 

Cobraman502

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They do make bags that are EMP proof, check on AM. for them.
It takes about 3-4 days for the effects to hit earth from the Sun. This latest flare up should not effect us at all here in the states from what I'm reading, to the point of knocking out our flashlights.

Always a interesting topic on what it would really do-have a open mind and be nice to different views.

Good idea, never thought to search on Amazon for that.
 

filibuster

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After looking into EMPs and how it would potentially affect the electronics I own, my personal conclusion and guesstimate gleaned from everything I read and asked is that most small electronic devices such as flashlights and headlights will make it through an EMP just fine. There's simply not enough EMP conducting material even on a metal flashlight to attract the quantity of electromagnetic power during an EMP needed to fry it's circuits. So sleep easier with one less worry to be concerned with.

Even so, if desired as a further precaution store your flashlights without batteries in them and if possible remove the head from the battery tube to mitigate the possibility of EMP damage even more.

For the diehard prepper find a good polymer constructed flashlight for a backup and/or buy a number of small Dry-Shield 3400 bags and place the electronic devices you'd like to protect from EMP in them for storage. Double bag for even more protection. The bags would work for CME's too though it would be way overkill in my opinion as even a very strong CME would have less effect on a flashlight than an EMP.
 
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Cobraman502

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After looking into EMPs and how it would potentially affect the electronics I own, my personal conclusion and guesstimate gleaned from everything I read and asked is that most small electronic devices such as flashlights and headlights will make it through an EMP just fine. There's simply not enough EMP conducting material even on a metal flashlight to attract the quantity of electromagnetic power during an EMP needed to fry it's circuits. So sleep easier with one less worry to be concerned with.

Even so, if desired as a further precaution store your flashlights without batteries in them and if possible remove the head from the battery tube to mitigate the possibility of EMP damage even more.

For the diehard prepper find a good polymer constructed flashlight for a backup and/or buy a number of small Dry-Shield 3400 bags and place the electronic devices you'd like to protect from EMP in them for storage. Double bag for even more protection. The bags would work for CME's too though it would be way overkill in my opinion as even a very strong CME would have less effect on a flashlight than an EMP.

Thanks very good info.
 

Timothybil

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BigDogg795

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Re: EPM proof flashlight

Since I started collecting lights, I stopped testing the Compton effect. My days of setting off Thermonuclear Warheads in the backyard are pretty much so over with. Not to mention the updated HOA rules strictly prohibit Nuclear testing. Not really sure why.
This just made my day. You're lucky my keyboard only got sprayed with water when I spit it out laughing. :naughty:
 

terjee

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There's a lot of myths about EMPs and EMP-protection floating around, and a lot of it is just wrong, and could even make things worse.

While not formally educated, I'm seriously into both DIY electronics, and also amateur radio, and both of those have included reading up a lot about shielding, and understanding the issues. Not for EMP primarily, but more for EMC compliance etc, but the physics is the same.

I'm not really following prepper forums, but the bits about prepping and EMP that I have noticed include things like microwave ovens, metal cans, "EMP bags", and even chicken wire. Most that suggest testing suggest using an FM radio or a cellphone, to see if you can get a signal.

That's like spinning a globe, picking a random spot on the earth, seeing that there's water, and concluding that there is no dry land. :)

Okay that was a bit harsh perhaps. Sure, you can do the test, but a microwave for example, is made to reflect a specific frequency, and can perform really poorly as a shield at any other. It's also not just a single radio frequency you'd have to be concerned about, but also static electricity, magnetism and so on.

But let's double back and look at how things are with no protection at all. EMPs are (according to the literature I've come across), strongest up to 1Mhz, then starts falling off from there, and are reduced significantly by the time you get to 100Mhz, further decreasing pretty fast as frequency goes up. Now, you can view any metal body as an antenna, "tuned" to a specific frequency. Larger metal body, lower frequency. This is bad news if you're an aircraft, since it puts their metal bodies in the frequency range of the EMPs. If you're a tiny flashlight though, the "tuned" frequency might be in the 4-6Ghz range, waaaaaay above where the EMP has most of it's energy.

So from the get go, your flashlight is already a bad "EMP receiver". Now, could you put all your lights and radios inside of a metal container, to shield if from an EMP?

Well, you could, but you'd have to know what you're doing pretty well. You could also end up putting it inside of a much better EMP receiver.

Say you got a huge metal chest, 4 meter wide, and put all your electronics inside. Now you've potentially taken your very bad EMP receiver, and put it inside an excellent EMP receiver. Oops.

But the thing is metal, right? So the energy would just flow around, right?

Well, it's not that simple. Since this huge metal chest is a good EMP receiver, voltage could rise to tens or hundreds of thousands of volts. Yeah, we do say electricity follows the part of least resistance, but again the devil is in the details. Least resistance doesn't mean no resistance, and since this is AC, there's the inductance as well.

Whatever is slowing down the flow towards ground, also allows some of the energy to take alternative paths. With the voltages we're talking, sparks can easily jump centimeters, and reach for metal bodies, casings, connectors, and so on.

Not to mention that the crate might not be perfectly effective at *all* the relevant frequencies to begin with.

I'm not at all trying to put anyone down here, I'm just trying to illustrate that shielding is hard. Even the ones passing out bad advice on prepper forums come from the right place, they care, and want to share.

So what's a guy to do?

Same as always really, get good quality lights, and several of them. A well engineered light with no extra protection, has a better chance of surviving than a badly designed one in a micro, EMP-punch or metal crate.

Because flashlights are not good EMP receivers, the voltage-rise they see from an EMP would be comparable that static electricity, and good designers *always* protect against it.

It's also a well understood issue, with simple, relatively cheap and proven solutions. A simple resistor to slow down voltage rise, while a diode in front of it equalizes between positive and negative rails for example, can make a world of difference. That's two SMD components costing cents, and it might do more to protect than a metal crate.

Still want to do something?

Think of a place (not just container) where you'd expect good protection from lightning, and at the same time expect trouble using both a cellphone and a radio. Not just a micro or a crate, but two stories below ground, and well away from pipes, as an example.

If anyone wants to go the metal crate path, don't just place things in, but use antistatic bag with desiccant, inside something electrically isolating (styrofoam? Glass?), and then inside the container.

If you do want to try to check, use AM and FM radio rather than cellphone.

Sorry for the long post.
 

pageyjim

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Since we are "flashaholics" talking about effects of an EMP or CME on flashlights I always felt it would be prudent to put a couple in a nested Faraday cage. If we were concerned about such an event that is. I put a lot of stock in the website below. Sounds sane and has lots of info including data from past EMP tests. Also noting that todays weapons are designed to have a much larger EMP effect than weapons from past decades. He mentions that a standard Faraday cage needs to be grounded and "standard" ground could act more like an antenna. There is a section on LED's and which he says are susceptible to EMP. Although not as much as incandescent bulbs according to this site. And offers some advice on batteries as well. Always a good discussion I think and maybe it is better that we never find out what is the facts are regarding EMP's and CME's.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/EMP-Sitemap.html

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html
 
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