The TigerLight Upgrade Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
At this point there is enough discussion of this topic to warrant a separate thread in the appropriate forum (this one) and as far as I know, this project has more or less fallen to me, but I am happy to share the work if anyone has their own TL WA upgrade on the burner already, and I would very much like to hear people's ideas and preferences and responses.

First, however, despite the title of this thread, I want to stress that the TigerLight is designed for use by LEO and as such, the 1.1 hour runtime of the standard LA is really more or less already on the short side. Us weirdos here on CPF (God bless us!) may consider 20 minutes of runtime ample, but hey, that's us. 1/3 hour of fun and 10 on the charger. Ouch! So the "Upgrade" is meant in the sense of "Turbo charge" and in the time honored spirit of trading runtime for brightness.

There are two main upgrades to be discussed in regards to the TL. The first is obviously the lamp/reflector assembly. Consider just the lamp for now. If throwing a WA lamp in a 6.0 volt MC makes it king of the hill, what will happen when we find a suitable WA lamp for the 7.2 volt TL? We know! Step down please, Mr. MC-WA.

Here are the WA candidates at present:

1274: This is the prime candidate. It is a 7.2 volt lamp that draws 2.77 amps yielding 19.94 watts versus the 12.25 watts of the standard LA. It makes 553 lumens at this voltage, which is very close to what the 1160 pushed to 6.0 volts makes. A TL running this lamp would have slightly over 30 minutes of runtime. The lamp life of the 1274 is 40 hours and it costs $3.

1111: This 6.0 volt lamp makes 465 lumens at spec and draws a heart warming 3.35 amps (at spec). Now--and this is obviously key--if it doesn't blow--it will be making something like 800+ lumens at 7.2 volts and be drawing well nigh 5 amps (35 watts give or take!). Runtime would be around 20 minutes. But will it take the push? Judging by the 1160, which can really take a push, let's surmise: the life of the 1160 at spec is 550 hours; the life of the 1111 is 100. The filament diameter of the 1160 is .813 mm; the 1111 is .889. My guess is that it will take it, but I don't know how bad the bulb life will turn out to be. We shall see. These cost $6 each.

1164: This is my backup choice in case the 1111 can't take a 1.2 volt push. This lamp will almost certainly take a major push. Its life is rated at 2,500 hours, and its filament diameter is a considerable 1.08 mm. It is a 6.0 volt lamp that draws 3.28 amps (19.7 watts) and makes 300 lumens at spec. Now lest you get crest fallen at such a "low" lumen output, keep in mind that the 1160 only makes 327 lumens when driven at spec. The 1160 in the MC is being pushed 1.0 volt. The 1164 in the TL would be pushed 1.2 volts. This is EXACTLY the same proportion of push (1/6 vs. 1.2/7.2) so one could guess that the 1164 when pushed to 7.2 volts will make about the same amount of lumens as the 1160 when pushed to 6.0 volts, or slightly less due to the slightly lower efficiency of the 1164 vs. the 1160: 15.3 vs. 18.9 lumens/watt. The runtime of the TL running the 1164 would be something better than 20 minutes? Your guess is as good as mine. I don't have a lot of hope for this option, but I figured it was worth $9 for a couple just to check. because, obviously, the 1274 makes this many lumens at spec. However, these are just guesses regarding what the 1164 will be like at 7.2 volts. Who knows, maybe this will surprise us.

1185: hmmm. What? This is a 9.6 volt lamp, Jim. Yeah, I know. See below under the battery uprgrade section. Yes, you heard me right.

OK, so the next issue with a WA lamp candidate is the reflector. I for one will only consider potting a lamp into a reflector unless every other option fails me. I do not think that it is fun to throw away a perfectly good reflector just because a lamp has blown, especially once we start considering Carley RF1940's with orange peel and aluminized vacuum coating. My proposal is to use a socket which will hold the lamp and which will then be held in the reflector by the set screw. I have a handful of WA bi-pin sockets of the right size on order and I am hopeful that I can modify either the socket or the reflector so that this becomes a workable solution. The benefits, besides the one mentioned above, would also include the option to position the lamp at the focus which appeals to you. The standard TL LA is as tight a focus as they could make it in the 2 inch parabolic reflector. This is great for LEO, but many of us here on CPF would love a less-tight beam with less throw but more flood, not to mention what the orange peel would do to smooth out these monster bulbs we're talking about (including the standard TL bulb). I imagine that when I mod a socket or reflector that I will make small changes by filing or shiming or whatnot, so that the lamp socket can be perfectly centered when properly installed. I have also thought of adding more set screws to give a very easy way to move the socket around in the reflector. The TL battery power cables would then be atached to the socket leads.

The reflector: the Carley RF1940 is almost a drop in replacement for the standard reflector as it is, so it is the obvious choice. I have four of them coming to me from Carley, one of every flavor: smooth, light, medium and heavy orange peel, so that I can show people what the beams will be like (once a good lamp candidate is established). If anyone thinks of another good reflector option/company, please pipe up. The 1940 would probably run around $10 or less depending on how many we ordered.

Now for the second major possible upgrade: the battery pack. Ginseng has suggested that we could go from a 6 cell pack to a 9 cell pack with exactly the same external dimensions, by using 2/3 A cells (it currently uses 4/5 A's), and specifically the KAN 1050's. The mAH capacity would be less, of course, but running at this high of a voltage allows us to use . . . drum roll please . . . the WA 01185, Wilkey's favorite killer incan lamp. Yes. This bulb really kicks out the lumens. At 9.6 volts, 3.15 amps (30.2 watts) the 1185 makes 817 lumens. But get this, 9 cells would put us in the re-rating, push it a bit range of 10+ volts (under load), or something like 950 lumens. (Is that right, Ginseng?) And the good news is that with the KAN 1050's this would still be around 20 minutes of runtime or somewhat less. This and the 1111 are the most promising lumen-king options. The 1185 has a life of 50 hours and costs $3. Don't you just love it! $3 No $30 SureFire lamp to buy. 10X Dominator watch out!

The battery pack upgrade would unfortunately involve the need for another charger. This is beyond my knowledge at the moment, so I have asked Ginseng to advise me on this. I would love to hear what everyone has to say on the subject. What chargers are out there that could work with a little ingenuity? Could the standard charger be modified? (I wouldn't think so, but I thought I'd ask.)

Here is the time table at the moment: my WA order ships out on the 10th and my Carley reflectors ship on the 17th (of March). I do not anticipate much more than two or three weeks of testing and prototyping, depending on how busy I am. So possibly we could get group buys into WA and Carley by the end of March.

OK. That's what I got so fer.
 

Ross

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
329
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
Jim, I will be following this with GREAT interest. I use a stock Tigerlight FBOP for work (LEO) but would love to mod it.
Thanks for this.
 

Raymond

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
260
Location
Netherlands
Maybe a carleylamps 852 is also worth to try. It's a 6V 20W lamp.

And I'll be following this thread too. That tigerlight has also made it to my whishlist /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Psychomodo

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
601
Location
Essex, UK
I'm up for whatever you think the best option. Paypal at the ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

Psychomodo

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
601
Location
Essex, UK
Will this mod be reversible?
Doesn't effect my decision to upgrade - just interested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
 

Ginseng

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,734
Jim,

Excellent summary of your ideas. Your bulb choices and battery rationale make good sense. I can't wait for the next volley in this MagCharger versus Tigerlight grudge match to be launched.

The WA01185 would be the ultimate upgrade for the TL. Your comparison to the SF M6 or Dominator is an illuminating and valid one. With the '85 lamp in there, it really would be the king of the tactical/rechargeable roost. Hehe, I can just imagine your SuperTL saying "Ok, who's next?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Can you say "Celebrity Flashlight Deathmatch?"

Wilkey
 

SilverFox

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Messages
12,449
Location
Bellingham WA
Hello Jim,

I knew I got two TigerLights for some reason other than extended battery run time.

This sounds very interesting.

For my use, the battery charger has always been the weak link. I was hoping TigerLight would offer an upgraded charger, but that has not happened.

By the way, did you hear that TigerLight has changed lamp assembly manufacturers and is coming out with a new lamp? I have no additional information but am looking.

Tom
 

cheesehead

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
1,189
Location
the dairy state
Very nice summary. From the manufactures site, (I'll try and find it), current doesn't go up as dramatically as you stated. Resistance goes up with heat in these bulbs, so the TL may not be as overworked as it seems.

cheese
 

uhammer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
39
Location
Newark, CA
Interesting and very tempting...IIRC (have not open my TL for a while now), the stock lense is plastic. Do you know if it can handle the added heat due to the extra photons (I melted my plastic 9P lense running a P91 for an extended period of time)? I know that flashlightlens.com has a glass version in hte past, but I vaguely remember that those were not reliable on the TL because of the construction of the head assembly and was susceptable to cracking. Maybe flashlightlense.com has a more durable version now. Can anyone comment? Thanks.
 

SilverFox

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Messages
12,449
Location
Bellingham WA
Hello Uhammer,

I believe Chris at Flashlightlens has worked out the problem of fitting the lens to the TigerLight. I have heard of someone dropping the light flat on concrete from about 6 feet and the lens did crack. In normal use it should be OK.

The plastic TigerLight lens will melt with the TigerLight bulb if you run it for the whole 66 minutes. At least mine did...

Tom
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
Before I forget (again) I should mention to everyone that unless I hear otherwise from TL, we should all assume that using anything other than the stock LA will void the battery warranty.

OK.

Raymond, thanks for the tip on the 852. I'm looking into it, and will probably add some to my Carley order.

Psychomodo, these mod ideas discussed so far will be 100 percent reversible. All they involve are a different lamp assembly and battery. The one exception might be that if we have to use parts from the old charger to make the new 9 cell charger, then you'd have to buy a new charger from TL to go back to the stock configuration, but it's not that expensive. TL has promised to come up with a fast charger at some future date. They say they went with the trickle charge because it made the charger inexpensive. NiMH is much more difficult to fast charge because it is hard to find reliable indicators of when the cells are fully charged. It can be done, but it is not simple.

Ginseng, thanks! I too am leaning more and more towards the 1185 / 9 cell battery pack upgrade. That would be a guaranteed lumen king.

Cheesehead, yes, I may be off on my guestimations, and the required current for the relevant push may be lower. I estimated high to be consevative on the run-time approximation. My guessing was educated by the 1160 in actual use in the MC. As for your take on NiCad vs. NiMH, I'm pretty sure that you are behind the times. It used to be that the NiMH didn't like much more than a 2C disharge, and that NiCads were the clear choice for high current applications such as power tools. However, even back then, the NiMH had much better energy density than NiCad. Now, however, you see NiMH batteries with internal resistances as low as NiCads and with SERIOUS current delivery capability. Like 20 or 30 amps, for example. But we're not talking anything more than 5 amps and probably more like 3-4 amps at most. The current NiMH batteries, including the ones in the stock TL battery pack, will deliver this easily, without even having to get into specifically designed high current NiMH batteries. Take a look at Ginseng's 1200 bulb-lumen mag mod where he uses, . . .wait for it . . . .NiMH batteries. Maha 2200 AA to be specific. You see, this is why the TL, which is smaller than the MC and operating at a higher voltage, will be able to handle this mod and dethrone the MC. Higher energy density, my friend. Not as high as Lithium, but still way better than NiCad by a factor of 2 or more. Your money is not well placed on the MC. It's already maxed out with the 1160. That's as good as it gets, and even if nothing else pans out, the 1274 will put it very near the MC in a smaller, better package. Why better? Tactically correct rear switch for one, and NON-focusable head for two. Read why TL chose not to have a focusing light. It's all there on the web site and it makes good, good sense. However that may be, unless we have to resort to potting the lamps into reflectors, each person will be able to set the focus the way he wants it, and every time he grabs the TL, the focus will be right there. No need to use two hands to put it to where it should be. Just my own preference here, but a focusable beam is a gimmick and is undesireable in a serious light. YMMV, of course.

uhammer, Silverfox is correct: you will need a glass lens, and flashlightlens.com has them and the shattering problem has been solved, if my own and others experience is anything to go on. I carry my TL w/ UCL in my back pack all the time and it has never shattered.
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
cheesehead,

Oh, regarding the non-linearity of light-bulb resistance, I just remembered that tests done on the WA 1185 over its practical operating range 9.2-10.8 volts show that the V-I graph is a straight line. This means that it has a constant resistance when it is up to operating voltage and current. I think this is typical of these bulbs. When it first is turned on, the resistance is much lower and it draws a big current, but when it warms up it acts a lot like a resistor. However, even when "warmed up" dropping the voltage into a low range, say half of nominal, would probably take you into the non-linear resistance range. But the important thing is that, no, for our purposes, I should NOT count on an increase in resistance with voltage increase. The resistance will stay more or less the same all the way until the lamp blows at which point it will take a serious spike upwards to something on the order of infinity. Now THAT's non-linear!
 

Psychomodo

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
601
Location
Essex, UK
Thanks for all this info Jim./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Waiting patiently for next update./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
The update is that I'm going to get a Carley 852 or two, and start emailing people like Kevin at batterystation.com about a 9 cell battey pack and chargers and group buys. I'm definitely going to try this 9 cell BP w/ WA1185 thing out and see what the results and costs will be. The KAN 1050 high current NiMH batteries are $1.70 each from www.batterystation.com which is $15.30 for the batteries, plus, say, $5 for wire, shrinkwrap, braids or bridges, and connector. So conservatively, say, $25 or less for the 10.8 volt battery pack. Not bad. Next hurdle will be the charger. Ah, March 10th seems so far away. I want my WA lamps! This is really getting exciting. Unless something totally unforseen comes about, I'm definitely going to be exploring this option (9 cell pack w/ 1185) because the high efficiency of the 1185 together with the high capacity (for their volume) of the KAN 2/3A high current 1050's leads me to suspect that this might just be the brightest TL possible. And hey, 20 minutes is plenty of runtime, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

Illuminated

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
886
Location
Tipp City, Ohio
Hello All,

The stock TL charger is a constant-current charger using the LM317T set to deliver roughly 183mA (approx. 0.1C). Using a 9-cell pack, the 12V input would likely be a bit low for the LM317T to maintain full current regulation.

TL warranty aside, it would likely accept say 15-16 volt input, and changing a single resistor can increase the charge current. [1.25V/R=I] I would suggest selecting a current that would allow charging in say 7 to 9 hours (overnight), though the LM317T is rated up to 1.5A if properly heat-sinked.

I'm a fan of low-current charging because of the ability to easily build simple constant-current circuits based on the LM317, and because they are relatively battery-friendly as long as you don't leave 'em on the charger for 12 months at a time.

I've built several of these for different battery configs, and I use a meter to monitor battery voltage. I usually terminate charging when reaching 1.4V/cell.

As for fast charging, well, it would be nice to have - but I can live w/o it for the time being.

Building a true smart charger (delta V w/temp monitoring) is much more involved than I have the time to invest in, but that's just me.

So, who'll be the first to put the WA1274/Carley reflector in a TL? I have these items, but I'm more inclined to put 'em in my 4D Mag w/6 x 1/2D Powerstreams...you know - a big light should make big light, right?

Have fun - John
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
Illuminated,

So if I understand you correctly, all we need to do is to find a new wall wart that will deliver 15-16 volts and then change a single resistor in the LM317T charging circuit for the proper .1C charging current. Have I got this right?

Thank you so much! This is invaluable info for me. Which resistor is it and what is the best way to determine the proper resistance? Is it as simple as your formula above:

.1C = 105 mA (for the KAN 1050) = 1.25/R

thus R = 11.9 Ohms. Is this right?

So at the moment I am looking to change a 6.83 Ohm resistor. Yes?

Tell me more. Details. PM if you wish.

Also, the wall wart AC to DC unit should be able to provide what current to the LM317T ? Not much I would assume. 500 mA max current would be more than sufficient, I'm guessing.

This is AWESOME. This means that for the cost of a resistor and a wall wart we can mod the original charger to work. No dealing with the mechanical problem of mating to the charging contacts on the light.

John you are DA MAN. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
 

Illuminated

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
886
Location
Tipp City, Ohio
Jim,

It's pretty much that simple. Let me check out a couple of things to be sure. Most wallwarts put out more than their stated voltage when not loaded with full current draw. It's possible that the stock wallwart/TL charger will charge a 9-cell batt pack. I happen to have one, so I can hook it up and see if it stays in redulation when fully charged at 1.4V/cell.

Hopefully I'll be able to do that today or tomorrow...

John
 

Illuminated

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
886
Location
Tipp City, Ohio
OK,

On the TL charger...after a few quick tests, here's what I found out:

In stock form, my TL charger charges the TL at 187 mA. Wallwart voltage while charging was 14.3 Volts.

I measured the unloaded terminal voltage of my 9-cell NiMH battery at 12 volts. Connected to the TL charger, I measured only about 111 mA, and the reading was gradually falling off. This tells me that the LM317T circuit was not regulating current due to lack of sufficient input voltage from the TL's 12V wallwart. OK -

I scrounged up a 15 VDC/1A wallwart that measured an unloaded output voltage of just over 20 volts. Temporarily connected it to the TL charger, and it measured 18 volts while charging the 9-cell battery. Charging current was back up to 187 mA steady. So, there you have it - a wallwart rated at 15-18 VDC @ 500 mA is in order if you want to charge a 9-cell battery.

As for the resistor, there is a 6.8-ohm resistor located right alongside the LM317T on the TL charger circuit board. If you want to drop the charge current to about 108.7 mA, I suggest disconnecting one end of the existing 6.8-ohm resistor and adding a 4.7-ohm 1/2 watt resistor in series for 11.5-ohms total. There's plenty of room in there to do that.

One minor concern worth noting - there's an electrolytic input filter capacitor that has a 25V rating. Should be fine as is, but the extra cautious person may want to swap it for one with a higher voltage rating if using a higher voltage wallwart. Sorry, but I forgot to note the capacitance value while I was in there.

Hope this is what you were looking for...

John
 

cheesehead

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
1,189
Location
the dairy state
js,

Thanks for the response. However, with regard to light bulb resistance, WA's own published web site data shows that if the voltage goes up 10%, current does not rise that much and thus bulb resistance is not constant This is for a slightly lower current bulb, but it also is rated 50 hours, so is an over-driven bulb. Eh, it's only about 10% and thus a minor point.

NiMH and NiCD, I understand the energy density differences, and I may soon have to give up on NiCD /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif. In the long haul, I worry pushed NiMH will not give you 300 recharge cycles, although as you state, the NiMH aren't being beaten all that much.

Finally, if you are replacing the bulb, reflector, batteries and charger, at what point is the Tigerlight no longer a Tigerlight? The MC mod is so easy, even a chimpanzee like myself can do it. Can other mag mods (i.e. upgrades) then claim to out-do the Tiger upgrade?

Eh, good thread, I want to see a new winner too.

cheese
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top