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Thread: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

  1. #1
    Flashaholic
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    Default throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Guys I don't use flooders so can't test the following. But at backyard ranges(say 30-40 yards or less) I am assuming a light with same lumens but higher CD puts more light into someones eyes? Is this correct reasoning? Or will both be perceived to be 'as bright'?

  2. #2

    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Oh yeah, but the thrower requires much more aiming, and will have a much greater effective range.

    The power square law describes energy radiating out into space, double the distance means 1/4 intensity, 4x distance=1/16 intensity, 8x distance=1/64 intensity... so you counter that by scooping up all the light that you can with reflectors or optics and concentrating it into a hot spot.

    I like to think of it like shotgun patterning, also, for a shotgun, some might say that the ideal hotspot would match the patterning of their barrel, with a useful wider spill around the hot spot.
    Last edited by eh4; 10-17-2017 at 07:29 PM.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

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    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    As long as you aim it in their eyes. Make sure to use a high frequency strobe combined with alternating lower frequency strobe.
    SC600III HI, E14, G20, M43, K60, L6, D4, TX25C2VN40, TN40SVN

  4. #4

    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Guys, guys, guys, stop now before somebody gets hurt.

    At 40-50 yards a flashlight is not going to disorient a perp. Strobe or not. Not unless it's one like helicopters use.

    What you can achieve is the perp covering their eyes with a "turn out that *** light" motion as the cover their eyes. But in that case momentary with brief unpredictable timings and movements by you will allow you to flee to safety or call for assistance. Pupils adapt so quickly that strobe would be ineffective at that range.
    A pencil beam would be best.

    There are youtubes galore covering this stuff.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 10-18-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    I don't know about disorienting, but my pupils only dilate and contract so fast, and a strobe in my eyes sets them constantly going back and forth.
    There's an ache that isn't present when adjusted to looking into a bright light, and seeing beyond the strobe is more difficult for me than seeing beyond an equally bright light.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Guys, guys, guys, stop now before somebody gets hurt.

    At 40-50 yards a flashlight is not going to disorient a perp. Strobe or not.
    I will have to respectfully disagree.

    Have you actually ran drills both ways and compared your time and accuracy?

    We train at night [minimum] twice monthly and can say the K60 does an excellent job at disorientating a person at distances out to 100 yards.

    We have also used the K70, but the narrow beam profile is less than ideal in high stress defensive situations...whereas a power flooder allows you to retain peripheral awareness, which is so important.
    Last edited by seery; 10-18-2017 at 08:32 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    I meant disorient as in very momentarily yes, not in the sense of any stand alone or long term effect from a flashlight. I was just wondering about percieved brightness between flooders and throwers and common sense should have told me the hotspot of the thrower is where it will be brightest. Thanks!

  8. #8

    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Guys, guys, guys, stop now before somebody gets hurt.

    At 40-50 yards a flashlight is not going to disorient a perp. Strobe or not. Not unless it's one like helicopters use.

    What you can achieve is the perp covering their eyes with a "turn out that *** light" motion as the cover their eyes. But in that case momentary with brief unpredictable timings and movements by you will allow you to flee to safety or call for assistance. Pupils adapt so quickly that strobe would be ineffective at that range.
    A pencil beam would be best.

    There are youtubes galore covering this stuff.
    You got it. Light wonít even blind good night vision goggles since the 80ís. About all that light does is tell somebody right where to put the rounds if heís taking a shot at you. Thatís in combat training they teach you to shoot the flashes as well as when you fire you move a little bit constantly or they zero right in on you.
    Any source of light in a possible firefight is definitely not your friend. keep it dark unless youíre just scaring away common street criminal kids lookin to steal things.
    The best thing then , pump action shotgun. No need to shoot anybody just rack one in loud and clear. All dirtbags know what a pump shotgun sounds like being loaded and they will leave pronto. You didnít have to tell anybody where you were standing to do it ,or even really load around in the gun.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    Quote Originally Posted by drizler View Post
    You got it. Light wonít even blind good night vision goggles since the 80ís. About all that light does is tell somebody right where to put the rounds if heís taking a shot at you. Thatís in combat training they teach you to shoot the flashes as well as when you fire you move a little bit constantly or they zero right in on you.
    Any source of light in a possible firefight is definitely not your friend. keep it dark unless youíre just scaring away common street criminal kids lookin to steal things.
    The best thing then , pump action shotgun. No need to shoot anybody just rack one in loud and clear. All dirtbags know what a pump shotgun sounds like being loaded and they will leave pronto. You didnít have to tell anybody where you were standing to do it ,or even really load around in the gun.
    We are all getting a bit carried away with the tactical stuff I think. Yes in night time operations, white light is a bad idea, a lot of us were in the military. For a range of other scenarios, shining something very bright in someone's eyes can have advantages, not to mention being able to see what you are shooting at Or cops would not be taught how to use a pistol and flashlight. Anyway, the thread was only about what looks brightest to someone looking at the light, so we can relax on the SWAT stuff...

  10. #10

    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    A narrow spot will appear brighter to a person at a distance than a pure flooder. The bigger the spot the better regarding aiming correctly, but that usually reduces the distance of the intention.

    Example: a light from a snoot type bezel will be more intense at the item it lights than one with a spread beam (given the same output of lumens). A good reference for your question would be in the description of the various drop in's at the Malkoff web site. His lights and drop in's are tactical in nature and he explains each one's potential capabilities that can answer your original question.

    Think of blowing air through a straw versus through the narrow end of a funnel. At say, a foot away you'll feel more air coming from that narrow straw versus the wide end of a funnel that spreads out the velocity of air movement.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 10-20-2017 at 09:49 AM.
    John 3:16
    "I'm still a Toys R Us kid" -PK

  11. #11
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    Default Re: throwers vs flooders for disorienting

    great analogy bykfixer thanks!

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