HIR specifications and the Halogen Infrared Reflective Coating

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LeanBurn

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Quick question...how much of an upgrade is the Vosla HIR1 bulb over the Philips HIR1 bulb?

(This is in a 2009 Corolla in the which I have the Toshiba balloon shape type with IR coating HIR1 bulbs in currently.)

Thanks.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

LOL! Oh, that. That's just another one of Rallylights's fairytales. There is no such thing as a 3000 lumen HIR1 bulb. If anyone made such a bulb, it would be illegal. Also, it can't (physically) be made.
 
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LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Much appreciated Virgil. CPF continues to be the place to get the real information.
 

TechGuru

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

3000 lumens out of halogen would be around 130 watts...

A 130W H3 bulb is 3650 lumens according to a archived copy of Daniel Stern's page.
 
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-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Actually, now that I think about it, it might be possible to get close to 3000 lumens without stupid-high wattage. An H9 is nominally 2100 lumens and max 73w at 13.2v. Hold that in mind for a minute.

An HB3 (9005) is 1860 lumens and max 73w at 13.2v. An HIR1 (boosted HB3) is nominally 2500 lumens and max 73w at 13.2v.

2500 / 1860 = 1.344

1.344 x that H9 figure of 2100 lumens = 2822 lumens, pretty close to 3000.

But this is all a theoretical flight of fancy, because there's no such bulb.
 

LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

The original Toshiba HIR1 could get 2350 Lumens from 65W due to the infrared coating. I knew it would take something even more special to go beyond that.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

The original Toshiba HIR1 could get 2350 Lumens from 65W due to the infrared coating.

Says who? Citation needed! :) There's a lot of made up "wisdom" on the internet about HIR bulbs (some of it is put out by people and companies that really ought to know better, but it scores sales for them), and the main fairytale about them is BS about the Toshiba bulbs being "real" HIR bulbs as opposed to Philips/Vosla/etc.
 
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LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Says who? Citation needed! :) There's a lot of made up "wisdom" on the internet about HIR bulbs (some of it is put out by people and companies that really ought to know better, but it scores sales for them), and the main fairytale about them is BS about the Toshiba bulbs being "real" HIR bulbs as opposed to Philips/Vosla/etc.

Daniel Stern, I tend to trust him: 2350 L https://www.danielsternlighting.com/...ulb_types.html
 

Alaric Darconville

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?


Much like DVD could mean "Digital Versatile Disc" or "Digital Video Disc" (depending on who you ask), HIR might mean "Halogen Infrared Reflective" but now doesn't really mean anything now. If the bulb meets the standard for the HIR1 or HIR2 (filament size, position, precision, filament luminance, luminous flux and all those things), the bulb *IS* by definition an HIR bulb. The infrared reflective coating is not part of that specification.
 

-Virgil-

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LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Interesting.

Daniel Sterns page (https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/bulb_types/bulb_types.html) was created in 2007 and the parts referring to the HIR1 having 65W and 2350 lumens hasn't changed since then. It comments specifically on halogen infrared as a property of the bulb. I know it hasn't changed because it was where I first learned about the HIR1 specification and I immediately bought my genuine made in Japan Toshiba HIR1 bulbs in 2008 from the candlepower store upon finding the information Daniels website.

A thread talking about the new Philips HIR1 bulb was created in 2009 (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?243470-New-Philips-HIR2-scrutinized)

Timeline indicates Daniel could not possibly be referring to Philips HIR bulb as it hadn't been invented yet, also the Philips HIR bulb has no infrared coating. Post #10 of that same thread by yourself confirms this:

Philips never commercialized a 9011 bulb with IR coating; their 9011 (HIR1) bulb is essentially a high-performance, high-luminance HB3 (9005) that has been optimized and improved over the years. I would like to see their HIR1 switched over to the H7-style burner as well but it is unlikely to happen unless/until there's an OE market demand for it.



So...if Daniel Stern wasn't referring to the Toshiba HIR with the infrared coating back in 2007, can you please tell me to what bulb he was referring to ?
 

-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

In most cases on that chart you're looking at, Stern isn't referring to the actual lumen output of any given brand and build of bulb, he provides the nominal specs for a type of bulb. These specs are drawn from the applicable technical regulations (UN/ECE R37 and 49CFR564). Some of the figures aren't available from the regs (high-watt bulbs, "Plus" bulbs, etc); if I correctly remember what he said, those figures in his chart are aggregated from reliable makers' test data and/or Stern's own test data.
 

LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

A chart not based on any particular actual bulb that you can purchase but the chart based on a set of specs from an imaginary non existent product, that theoretically a bulb could potentially be made to perform like. So the chart is fictitious?

In order to obtain specific light output readings you have to have a working prototype or product...unless all the technical regulations are 100% derivations and estimations from a computer model. Someone had to do a test somewhere.

My question is now of those output specs Daniel detailed from, the Toshiba was the only HIR bulb in production at the time....it was the only one that could meet the specs...no?
 
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-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

A chart not based on any particular actual bulb that you can purchase but the chart based on a set of specs from an imaginary non existent product

Oh, come on, you're being (deliberately?) obtuse. That is not a realistic characterization of the chart.

So the chart is fictitious?

No...and I think you already knew that, so let's please try and steer the conversation in a mature-adult direction.

My question again...what was that product that those output specs Daniel detailed from? The GE prototype?

Why don't you ask him yourself? His email address is all over his website.

(What "GE prototype"?)
 

LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

The original HIR bulb with the wire that failed due to vibration issues.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

That wasn't a prototype, it was a mass-produced item manufactured and sold in quantity. I think they addressed the breakage issue, too, but eventually they discontinued the product.
 

LeanBurn

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Just going from the wording used on candlepower store :
http://store.candlepower.com/hirlighting.html "NOTE: The picture above is the original GE prototype. "


...man unless a person quotes from a government document it just gets ripped apart on here. [emoji15]
 
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-Virgil-

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Re: IS 9011/9012 always the best upgrade for 9005/9006?

Just going from the wording used on candlepower store

As has been pointed out many times by more than just me, there are fibs and fairytales galore on even reputable vendor websites. Rallylights and Candlepower have been called out by name for telling whoppers.

Yes, official regulations are the most reliable source for facts like the nominal and permitted amount of light from a given type of regulated light bulb. That doesn't bother me, does it bother you?

(Still no pointer to where Stern said, "The original Toshiba HIR1 could get 2350 Lumens from 65W due to the infrared coating" as you attributed to him...?)
 
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