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Thread: 4Sevens announces closure

  1. #121
    Beamhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    My last minute order shows shipped.
    Quando Omni Flunkis Moritati

  2. #122

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Beamhead View Post
    My last minute order shows shipped.
    I heard TJ stayed late to take care of it. That guy's the best!

    ~ Chance
    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Beamhead View Post
    My last minute order shows shipped.
    Nice!, Mine too! And I just got the mail and found a bright (pun intended) shiny new SS mini turbo!
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    -- Albert Einstein

  4. #124
    Flashaholic Bruno28's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Finally my order arrived. Added the mini mk2 ti and mini mk2 turbo to the list of 16340 lights.
    The titanium is a bit gritty on the twist. While the aluminium is super smooth. With time will the titanium get smoother?
    Last edited by Bruno28; 12-18-2017 at 08:07 PM.

  5. #125

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Another milestone in flashlight development...4Sevens was an important figure, a dealer turned designer.

    He has indeed sold a lot of lights to flashaholics here and more normal people elsewhere. It was something of a phenomenon, which I saw in amazement as he changed from a Fenix dealer to the Quark creator. I always wondered which Chinese factory he was using, since of course he didn't have his own manufacturing facilities.

    He really did ride up the wave of new tech in flashlights.

    To be fair, he was innovative, and there are important people who value his work and contributions. I just recently saw posts by Vihn in his subforum here in CPF praising 4Seven's contributions.

    I can also add the writer of the OneBag blog who praised 4Seven creations and recommended them for travel.

    But, personally, I have to say I never got into the 4Seven mania and in fact though a big buyer of flashlights never got a single quark product.

    Not a tint issue either. Something about the whole thing seemed very marketing based to me, sort of turning around Chinese products and relabeling them.

    This is too unfair, of course, since the design elements were there and many people appreciated them.

    Anyway, I feel the need to mark the passing of the quark, which in its own way made a big splash and will probably be remembered for a long time among those who have been around the flashlight revolution.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    I can remember when these board were full of discussion about 4seven's Quarks and other products. Probably the most discussed brand here, a few years ago. But given the silence about the brand over the past couple of years, I don't think any of us should be surprised by this news.

    The only thing that shocks me every day: m*g is still in business!?!

  7. #127

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    The only thing that shocks me every day: m*g is still in business!?!
    What's with the *?
    GOOD TINT!

  8. #128
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    What's with the *?
    It has to do with long ago history, that would be off topic in this thread, and I would prefer not to rehash right here.

    Any number of searches should likely turn up the outlines of that story, thanks.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  9. #129
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Foursevens (or 4sevens as some of us still remember the company) will be sorely missed.

    David Chow played a huge part in creating the the modern LED flashlight market that we know today. The company brought many innovations to the table, or at least to the mainstream - constant-current regulation, neutral-tint LEDs (Zebralight also helped), and production titanium flashlights.

    I, for one, wish David the best in his future ventures and hope that the new management can continue David's tradition of excellence.
    Having trouble with this forum? Maybe you're not using it correctly. See Carrot's quick tutorial here.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Well I received my mini turbo aluminium through the post today. Only taken 9 days to reach England which is good going. What can I say... I absolutely love it! It's my first foursevens, and I'm chuffed to bits. It's taken pride of place on my keys alongside my manker LAD and has retired my e05ss

    What a great legacy you've left, I wish you all the very best David and team
    Torchaholic

  11. #131

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    What's with the *?
    Tony Maglica sued a bunch of people a long time ago saying they'd stolen ideas. Some still type "M*g", others "M@g". Some as a joke, some because they still refuse to say the name.

    Best regards David. You dun good.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 12-27-2017 at 04:28 PM.
    John 3:16

  12. #132

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Several here have commented on tints of the four sevens lights. I seem to always be late to the party and find out about things after they are no longer available. It's ironic that 47s would be sitting on the warm tinted lights for so long when I would have gladly purchased many 47s lights had they been available in a warm tinted version. By the time I found out they were once made, it was too late, and they never came back. I wonder if warm or neutral would be more successful being that the general public seems to be becoming more aware of things like CRI. Also I feel that LED technology has gotten far enough that the lumens race could maybe take a backseat.

    I wish people didn't think it was so cool to have a 1000 lumens light.

    I'd take light quality over light quantity any day.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    Several here have commented on tints of the four sevens lights. I seem to always be late to the party and find out about things after they are no longer available. It's ironic that 47s would be sitting on the warm tinted lights for so long when I would have gladly purchased many 47s lights had they been available in a warm tinted version. By the time I found out they were once made, it was too late, and they never came back. I wonder if warm or neutral would be more successful being that the general public seems to be becoming more aware of things like CRI.
    Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway.

    They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went.

    BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.

  14. #134

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway.

    They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went.

    BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.
    I agree 100% The only time I managed to get 47s lights with LEDs I wanted were illumn exclusive Preon 2s and CPF anniversary Atom A0s that used Nichia 219s. And it was only through CPF that I even found out about the Illumn exclusive Preons. Otherwise that would have been another thing I missed out on. 47s lights always look so nice, I wish I would've been on time to buy their stuff when they used warm tints...

  15. #135

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway. They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went. BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.
    If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.
    Last edited by 18650; 12-28-2017 at 12:37 PM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by 18650 View Post
    If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.
    I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.

  17. #137
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by 18650 View Post
    If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.
    Right? The general public knows that LEDs are good. And thats about it.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordforthelord View Post
    I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.
    I think you're right, but it's going to be a very very very slow process. At best, I think the average consumer might eventually understand a little about CCT, and they'll pick warm LEDs for home lighting and maybe even a flashlight (maybe!). But, I doubt they'll ever get to a point where they understand anything about CRI or tint. If it can't be explained in 5 words, it's probably too much for most people.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    If it can't be explained in 5 words, it's probably too much for most people.
    "Colors look better" or "Colors look more natural".

    My wife couldn't give a hoot about the specs of any of my flashlights, but she's perfectly aware of color temperature (I can only get 5000k color temperature bulbs because she hates "the yellow ones" (aka 4000k)). And whether she realizes it or not, she's aware of color rendering since she won't let me install LEDs in her bathroom. Apparently putting on makeup is sensitive to color rendering. Who would have guessed?

    --flatline

  20. #140

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Sorry to hear it David. I've been with you since Fenixstore. Still have a 2AA X on my nite stand
    In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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  21. #141
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    I love the "speculation" coming off as expert testimony as to why this look place.

    Tint caused it...................that is laughable, look at the join date of the majority of that minority. They obviously missed the early days on these forums where we had the "Luxeon Lottery", "cat urine green" and dreamed of a 100 lumen LED Light.
    Warm/Neutral vs. Cool reminds me before I became a recovering Audiophile of the tube vs transistor, analog vs digital, vinyl vs CD debates.

    If you grew up holding a dim extremely yellow tinted incan flashlight ( which I did) I can see why you want LED lights to mimic that, I don't care for that in fact the only 219b light I had the LED died in 30 days.
    If the light illuminates what I want to see at the distance I need then sweet.

    If you are a serious outdoorsperson or perhaps a photographer and not a white wall hunter then I can respect your need for warm/neutral high CRI lights.

    David did take on Goliath and I respect the hell out of him for doing so, I won't even own one of their lights. In fact I would take a m@g over one.

    David stated over a year ago that the 47's line would become a "niche" brand to fulfill the needs and wants of that market.

    We have no idea why this happened and may never truly know why so can we keep the expert speculation to a minimum?
    Last edited by Beamhead; 12-28-2017 at 03:21 PM.
    Quando Omni Flunkis Moritati

  22. #142

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordforthelord View Post
    I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.
    Someone I won’t name who didn’t mind sounding ignorant scoffed at the idea that the general public is starting to understand what CRI is.

    I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.

  23. #143

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Beamhead View Post
    I love the "speculation" coming off as expert testimony as to why this look place.

    Tint caused it...................that is laughable, look at the join date of the majority of that minority. They obviously missed the early days on these forums where we had the "Luxeon Lottery", "cat urine green" and dreamed of a 100 lumen LED Light.
    Warm/Neutral vs. Cool reminds me before I became a recovering Audiophile of the tube vs transistor, analog vs digital, vinyl vs CD debates.

    If you grew up holding a dim extremely yellow tinted incan flashlight ( which I did) I can see why you want LED lights to mimic that, I don't care for that in fact the only 219b light I had the LED died in 30 days.
    If the light illuminates what I want to see at the distance I need then sweet.

    If you are a serious outdoorsperson or perhaps a photographer and not a white wall hunter then I can respect your need for warm/neutral high CRI lights.

    David did take on Goliath and I respect the hell out of him for doing so, I won't even own one of their lights. In fact I would take a m@g over one.

    David stated over a year ago that the 47's line would become a "niche" brand to fulfill the needs and wants of that market.

    We have no idea why this happened and may never truly know why so can we keep the expert speculation to a minimum?
    I don’t believe anybody here claimed to be an expert. I also don’t see anybody saying tint is the reason 47s is out of business. What many people here ARE saying is that they would have purchased lights had they been available in warmer tints. Many are saying that the thing that stopped them from buying 47s lights (myself included) was the cool tint/no hi CRI option. That’s literally the only thing that stopped me from buying their lights.

    I’m sure someone will attack me saying “they had neutral and warm lights”, but they weren’t around consistently, and for every one light available with a neutral or warm tint, there are probably more than 10 lights that did not have that option.

  24. #144
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.
    You are correct, I just bought a 10 pack of T-8 bulbs that were rated neutral at 90 CRI, I get them installed and they are like 6500K, so we need to watch out for the "marketing" ploys.
    Quando Omni Flunkis Moritati

  25. #145

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    Someone I won’t name who didn’t mind sounding ignorant scoffed at the idea that the general public is starting to understand what CRI is. I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.
    The Walmart brand A19 bulbs I have in front of me don't have CRI printed anywhere on the box and the more recent A19 Philips bulbs found at Home Depot have CRI printed in two tiny digits on the bottom of the box (yes the side that sits on top of the shelf) while I have older Philips bulbs with the aluminum heatsink which have CRI printed nowhere yet I think these guys have no problem selling their wares. I highly doubt CRI or tint is what put 4Sevens out of business but maybe one of you guys could send David an email and ask him.

  26. #146

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Beamhead View Post
    You are correct, I just bought a 10 pack of T-8 bulbs that were rated neutral at 90 CRI, I get them installed and they are like 6500K, so we need to watch out for the "marketing" ploys.
    Well my bulbs said 2700K and they certainly deliver. I have noticed that any time I buy 2700K lightbulbs, they are always cooler than 2700K LEDs in flashlights. “Neutral” “cool” and “warm” are kinda arbitrary terms because without a number they kinda mean nothing. Some would call 5500K neutral, where I think of that as getting pretty cool. About as cool as I ever want to go. Some would call 4000K warm, where I think of 4000K as a nice slightly warm neutral.

    Some here have bashed those of us who prefer warm lights as ugly yellow light. That’s an opinion. I don’t think sunlight is ugly light. I think direct sunlight is the nicest most pleasant light there is. I don’t recommend anyone stare at the sun, but I can’t help but notice that the sun is in fact yellow. Not white. The best light source I can imagine would mimic direct sunlight as closely as possible.

    I’ll never understand “daylight” lights that are between 6000K and 7000K. That doesn’t look anything even remotely close to “daylight” to my eyes. Your results may vary.

  27. #147

    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    I think David picked a great time to step aside, even if only for a little while.

    The market is a 32oz glass of water with a whole bunch of straws sucking out the contents. More straws are being inserted every day. So the market is being divided into smaller and smaller segments with each day.

    I have a feeling we haven't heard the last from David Chow.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 12-28-2017 at 05:05 PM.
    John 3:16

  28. #148
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Please Know you will be missed. Good luck in your future endeavors.

    I still use my first Quark as well as many others I bought from you.

    Good luck.
    I spend my days in the light thinking about flashlights in the dark

  29. #149
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    Default Re: 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    One of the first with neutral and HCRI lights. Then he changed course. Said no more neutral and try to grab the tactical market. Ironically soon after he stopped producing neutral lights others started and so I switched.
    I don’t think this is any coincidence. 47’s took a gamble and thought that people would choose lumens over CRI, and even posted a rather arrogant statement that basically told tint snobs to screw themselves. Meanwhile, everyone else and their dog started producing high CRI lights. Taking a hard stand against high CRI MAY have carried some weight back in the days when high CRI meant dim Nichia 219A lights that struggled to hit 200 lumens. But in the last year or two, higher powered high CRI emitters such as the Nichia 219C, XP-L2, and XHP50 have taken away pretty much ANY reason to put up with nasty cool whites. This has left cool white holdouts like 47’s in the dust. 47’s figured people wouldn’t care. They didn’t stop to think that the kinds of people who plunk down more than a few bucks for a light actually DO care. After all, even the most lumen crazy folks will choose high CRI if the sacrifice in lumens is unnoticeable.
    Last edited by StorminMatt; 12-28-2017 at 07:28 PM.

  30. #150

    Default 4Sevens announces closure

    Quote Originally Posted by 18650 View Post
    The Walmart brand A19 bulbs I have in front of me don't have CRI printed anywhere on the box and the more recent A19 Philips bulbs found at Home Depot have CRI printed in two tiny digits on the bottom of the box (yes the side that sits on top of the shelf) while I have older Philips bulbs with the aluminum heatsink which have CRI printed nowhere yet I think these guys have no problem selling their wares. I highly doubt CRI or tint is what put 4Sevens out of business but maybe one of you guys could send David an email and ask him.
    Those bulbs DO sell. To some. Most people will be MUCH more concerned with the TINT, the COLOR TEMPERATURE of the bulb than anything else. I think what you are missing is this: What if Wal Mart decided to stop carrying any household lighting bulbs that were any warmer than 6500K? It's not just about CRI. It's about the fact that the room has a completely different feel to it with "daylight" bulbs at 6500K. I know that I would be going to a different store to buy my light bulbs. I would buy them online or wherever I had to go to stay in the 2700-3200K range. I don't need or want my house to feel like an office or a prison.

    Wal Mart doesn't talk about CRI on their bulbs because the CRI of those bulbs is not impressive. I'm willing to bet that you will never see a bulb that mentions CRI on the box if the CRI is low. For what I would have thought we're obvious reasons.
    Last edited by InvisibleFrodo; 12-28-2017 at 07:24 PM.

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