Need modern >3400mAh 18650

Hello

I need to replace my old 18650s so I'm looking for suggestions regarding new ones - both for suggestions regarding specific makes/models and also for trustworthy online stores. I'm currently located in Sweden, regarding shipping.

I see nowadays there are even >5000mAh ones - are they any good? If so, why are they not more popular? It's quite difficult to find them in major stores.

I have a cottonpickers charger, one of the early ones, not exactly this one but very similar:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger CottonPickers 4.35V DM UK.html

What is the maximum battery charge this charger supports? Can I use one of those >5000mAh cells with it?

Thank you

Re: Need modern >3400mAh 18650

You have already linked above a good site for battery review.

Here is a summary page that may be useful ...

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html

Sometimes what is printed on a wrapper may not match what lies underneath ...

Re: Need modern >3400mAh 18650

I would not believe anyone who says they have a 5000mAh 18650 for sale. The current sweet spot is 3400mAh, and I am starting to see more 3600mAh cells being available. I am conservative enough that I don't want to be out on the bleeding edge if I don't have to be. I did that with 8mm video tapes, and never again if I can help it. I also believe that unless one absolutely must have the maximum available capacity, the cost for those extra couple hundred mAhs is not justified by whatever increase in performance they provide.

If you have any questions about a cell, look to our resident cell performance guru HKJ to see what his reviews have to say. He is usually pretty current in his testing.

FeodorFlux said:

Hello

I need to replace my old 18650s so I'm looking for suggestions regarding new ones - both for suggestions regarding specific makes/models and also for trustworthy online stores. I'm currently located in Sweden, regarding shipping.

I see nowadays there are even >5000mAh ones - are they any good? If so, why are they not more popular? It's quite difficult to find them in major stores.

I have a cottonpickers charger, one of the early ones, not exactly this one but very similar:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger CottonPickers 4.35V DM UK.html

What is the maximum battery charge this charger supports? Can I use one of those >5000mAh cells with it?

Thank you

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3400-3600 mAh is the usual high capacity these days but there are some 2600-3000 mAh with high drain (usually 20-30A while 10 is normal for a modern high capacity cell) so you have to choose your requirements first. Also if the cells should be protected or not. My understanding is that flashlights with multiple cells should get protected cells and single cell flashlights can be ok with unprotected if you have a good charger and a light that has low voltage warning. You might as well get a proper charger depending on the number of cells you have and the number of charges you do.

I actually live in Stockholm and have 2 brand new unprotected Panasonic 18650GA cells (3500mAh). Bought these a bit hastily for my current flashlight and then bought a new light with 2x18650 so I ordered 4 protected batteries built on the same Panasonic 18650GA cell which I think is a fine cell for flashlights. If these unprotected cells suit your needs you can buy them from me for the lowest price+shipping you find or maybe a bit lower

The Panasonic 3500mah GA cell is the one you want if you're looking for highest capacity. Any higher number you see is a lie. Also I would suggest staying away from the 3400mah cells. They're Panasonic ncrb cells and I'd recommend every other 18650 in existence over those. They may be high capacity but they don't last well and have probably the worst discharge characteristics of any well known quality cell. Personally I prefer the high drain 2500-3000 mah cells from Sony, LG, and Samsung. They'll give just as much if not more usable capacity and your lights will either be brighter or stay in regulation longer as they hold their voltage much better

vicv said:

[Panasonic NCRB] may be high capacity but they don't last well [...]

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Why do you believe that?

Just personal experience. Say a light driven at 3A. A fully charged cell would immediately drop to 3.5V at that draw. After driver loses and host resistance it can't even provide the voltage needed for 3A. So right away it's basically direct drive. Had one die on me after about 7 cycles and the other I have away to someone with 10 cycles on it. Already had dropped to 2600mah. He was using it in a low output light so figured it would serve him ok. And these were genuine cells from AW. Look at any of hjks tests on these and look at the voltage under load compared to any other quality 18650. Plus these get most of their extra capacity compared to earlier cells from below 3.3v. Your light is already dim by then anyway

vicv said:

Just personal experience. Say a light driven at 3A [...]

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Oh, I thought "last well" referred to cycle/calendar life - which is fine for the NCRB. What cells perform better than the NCRB in your lights?

Like I said I had one die after 7 cycles in a light sitting unused. 6 months after charging it and maybe 10 minutes use it was sitting at 2.2V so I tossed it. The other with about 10 cycles was 40% down on capacity fully charged. That's horrendous cycle/calender life. I don't trust Panasonic or non high drain cells after that. Especially as I paid $20 a piece for them

Didn't see the rest of your post. Perform better? LG D1, LG hg2, LG he4, Samsung 25r, Samsung 30q, Sony vtc5, Sanyo ur18500, efest imr 18350, and whatever LG 8+ year old cells I've found in tool battery packs

I meant cells that you have actually tested under the same conditions (same light, etc) and observed not to have the problem you saw with the NCRB (vs. cells that you guess would perform better based on HKJ's tests).

Bazsy said:

........I actually live in Stockholm and have 2 brand new unprotected Panasonic 18650GA cells (3500mAh). Bought these a bit hastily for my current flashlight and then bought a new light with 2x18650 so I ordered 4 protected batteries built on the same Panasonic 18650GA cell which I think is a fine cell for flashlights..........

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The unprotected 18650GA is my favorite 18650. I had a problem with some Keeppower protected 18650GA's being too fat for my flashlights. The 18650GA is a little wider than the 18650B to begin with. The "GA" cell also has a little raised top vs the strictly flat top of the "B" version. Therefore the lights that do not have springs on both ends are more apt to work on the "GA" non protected than the "B" non protected. To be honest I think the only reason I get the more expensive protected cells is if needing the button top for a certain flashlight or gifting to someone that isn't as savy and comfortable with lithium ion.

vicv said:

Like I said I had one die after 7 cycles in a light sitting unused. 6 months after charging it and maybe 10 minutes use it was sitting at 2.2V so I tossed it. The other with about 10 cycles was 40% down on capacity fully charged. That's horrendous cycle/calender life. I don't trust Panasonic or non high drain cells after that. Especially as I paid $20 a piece for them

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Maybe you had fake (or used/damaged) cells, since Panasonic NCR18650B have way better cycle life, e.g. see below from Panasonic's data sheets.

Gauss163 said:

I meant cells that you have actually tested under the same conditions (same light, etc) and observed not to have the problem you saw with the NCRB (vs. cells that you guess would perform better based in HKJ's tests).

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Yes all of them. I don't have the equipment hjk has but I have a decent hobby charger which will log discharge curves. All of this cells perform better. Obviously the 18350 cell has lower capacity but they do have much better voltage under load and will make any decently driven light brighter. And some have had over 100 cycles and still going very strong. Where the ncrb cell would be excellent if they had better cycle life(maybe I got two duds) would be in series with a bunch circuit. Then voltage under load wouldn't matter and their high capacity would be a bonus. But even new they give about 3100-3200mah in actual testing at low current draw. A Sony vtc6 will actually give 3000mah. So not a noticeable difference in runtime but a vastly better performing cell. For less money

Gauss163 said:

Maybe you had fake (or used/damaged) cells, since Panasonic NCR18650B have way better cycle life, e.g. see below from Panasonic's data sheets.

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Bought them brand new from AW on his sales thread on this forum. And hjk actually tests them very well so all you need to do it use his comparator and that tells you everything you need to know except cycle life. The ncrb is probably a good cell in say a laptop battery where it's well monitored and low demands are put on it. But for flashlight use I believe you have to look at more than a capacity number to make sure you get something which will work well

vicv said:

Yes all of them [...]

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I'm trying to see if I can determine the cause of the issue you observed, so it would be helpful if you could tell me a cell that you know (for sure) did not have the problem you saw with the NCRB, i.e. you used it in the same light under the same conditions as with the NCRB. Which cell would be a good choice for that? (again, please ignore discharge curves but consider only how they performed in the same light).

Update: after rereading your numbers above, it is clear that either your NCRB cells were fake (or used/damaged), or there was a problem with how they were tested, so it doesn't really make sense to peform the above thought experiment. Do you still have them?

Ok in actual use in a light. I had a p60 drop in made for me by Vinh. Xml2 neutral driven at 3.4A. This should give ~1000 lumens. When I received it and tried it out with my new cells I noticed it was not as bright as I expected. So I did a tailcap reading. 2.55A. So I sent him an email about it. He informed me I should see 3.4A and to send it back. I did so and he tested it and it was working correctly. When I got it back I tried it again. 2.55A again. So then I tried an old LG cell labeled as 1300mah so you know it was old. Bang 3.34 A. Then I tried an imr 18350 supplied by aw. ~3.3 A. And I just tried it now on an LG hg2. 3.32A. I don't have any ncrb cells anymore tondo it again but I'm sure they haven't changed. I could try it with every cell I have and it would be the same

Once again they were brand new from AW which back then was considered the only acceptable source for cells

The only thing that I can say for sure is that genuine healthy NCRB certainly do not have the absymally poor life that you saw. There is not enough info to reliably say more.

If those NCRBs were protected then problems with the protection circuit is another thing to consider. Did you test them with the protection circuit removed?

Yes I did on the one. No change. Ok friend we'll have to agree to disagree on this one instead of stealing this guy's thread which I'm equally responsible for. Sorry to the op