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Thread: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* zespectre's Avatar
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    Default Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Apparently with the heavy use of LIPO batteries for the RC hobby realm, various companies have started producing "Charging bags" to increase safety against explosions or thermal runaway burnouts. I had no idea such a thing existed so I thought I'd pass that information along in case anyone cares.

    Example of testing a bag...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcwOwf55Rtc

    Example for sale (not endorsing this item, just showing an example)
    LIPO SAFE for charging
    "Notorious collector of things that glow, shine, or blink"
    CPF # 9435

  2. #2

    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    These grew out of the issues with exploding case's hover boards and Samsung products first popularized by air carriers having special containers for cargo , and now in most cabin areas there are kits in several areas of the plane with nomex aramid gauntlet gloves a hood and face shield and a bag so with gloves and hood donned you can toss a runaway battery containg device into it and it will contain it long enough to declare an inflight emergency and get on the ground , but like with anything someone saw a chance to make some money so they are being marketed and sold to consumers wiith different configurations, for our flahlights , phone models, drone power modules , just to name a few , the reality of it though is its to late , because its well known do not buy junk batteries and god knows who chargers , thats the key with proper cycles of charge/ discharge ,and not abusing the batteries or pushing them beyond spec frequently should need a bag.
    Last edited by milehigher; 12-22-2017 at 06:48 AM.

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    archimedes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Yes, indeed ... moved to Battery Safety forum
    ... is the archimedes peak

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    KITROBASKIN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Radio controlled car racing may be one of the earliest hobbies where batteries were being over charged so the cars take off as fast as possible, and things would go very wrong.

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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Quote Originally Posted by milehigher View Post
    These grew out of the issues with exploding case's hover boards [...]
    No, they were used in the RC world long before "hover boards" existed.

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    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    I believe in triple redundancy with everything. So, I only use protected Panasonics, charged by smart charger in tins, with multimeter to measure off charger. Then I tote my headlamp around in bookbag, inside cookie tins.

    I did buy a lipo bag, was able to instantly punch through the apparent fiberglass with blow torch. The outside bag shell is flammable plastic. So, i would feel more comfortable taking 2 layers of fiberglass, sandwich fireproofed borate caulking, and industrial staple my own bag together. Borate treated caulk laden fiberglass does quite well against a blow torch. Fiberglass alone resists a butane lighter, but not a plumbing blow torch.... I didn't go this route, opted for tin containers for my headlamps, since they benefit from the crush protection...

    Now, still unsure of how much protection a good steel/aluminum flashlight tube will offer a user, if a cell blows from overcharge or flames from short. All youtube explosions or flameouts videos happened outside a good aluminum tube light. Overcharging, it blows, but shorted, it is a roman candle.

    Though, for the plethora of cell phones and tablets in my house, using nothing more than the built-in protection circuits, and faith no shortcuts were made. Insanity, really.
    Last edited by degarb; 12-27-2017 at 10:14 AM.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    [...] Though, for the plethora of cell phones and tablets in my house, using nothing more than the built-in protection circuits, and faith no shortcuts were made. Insanity, really.
    But there is much more than just protection circuits. Cellphone, tablets, and laptops generally have far more safe battery subsystems than devices that use external universal Li-ion chargers. The safety of universal chargers is limited by the fact that they know nothing about the cell - such as its max charge rate, chemistry, IR & temperature profile, etc. But all of this info and more is known for the specific battery used in a cellphone or laptop. The integrated dedicated charger can communicate with the BMS and use this information to ensure that (dis)charging is always safe, even when the battery ages and IR increases (e.g. recent iPhone throttling). In some cases by tracking the health they can even detect impending internal shorts (e.g. heuristic enhancements to TI's impedance tracking algorithms that I mentioned before). This is difficult if not impossible for devices using external universal chargers since they generally don't have access to the necessary information.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 12-27-2017 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* zespectre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Personally my nod to safety is that I bought a few 8" ceramic floor tiles at lowes. One in the bedroom, one in the office, one down in my workshop. Anything I'm charging sits on one of those.
    "Notorious collector of things that glow, shine, or blink"
    CPF # 9435

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    But there is much more than just protection circuits. Cellphone, tablets, and laptops generally have far more safe battery subsystems than devices that use external universal Li-ion chargers. The safety of universal chargers is limited by the fact that they know nothing about the cell - such as its max charge rate, chemistry, IR & temperature profile, etc. But all of this info and more is known for the specific battery used in a cellphone or laptop. The integrated dedicated charger can communicate with the BMS and use this information to ensure that (dis)charging is always safe, even when the battery ages and IR increases (e.g. recent iPhone throttling). In some cases by tracking the health they can even detect impending internal shorts (e.g. heuristic enhancements to TI's impedance tracking algorithms that I mentioned before). This is difficult if not impossible for devices using external universal chargers since they generally don't have access to the necessary information.
    In theory, yes. But, we are talking about many manufacturers. None published which protections are implemented.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    In theory, yes. But, we are talking about many manufacturers. None published which protections are implemented.
    No, in theory and in practice, e.g. there are hundreds of pages of international safety standards for laptop batteries, and rigorous safety testing using industry standard methods (fault-tree analysis, FMEA, etc). None of this exists for standalone universal chargers.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* BVH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Not all Lipo bags are created equally. No Joking here. There's been a lot of testing on RCGroups forum and Lipo Sack brand is the one that does what it's supposed to. Others burn up and do not contain the run-away Lipo.
    Last edited by BVH; 12-27-2017 at 04:10 PM.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* zespectre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Safe Battery Charging Bag - didn't know this existed

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Not all Lipo bags are created equally. No Joking here. There's been a lot of testing on RCGroups forum and Lipo Sack brand is the one that does what it's supposed to. Others burn up and do not contain the run-away Lipo.
    Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
    "Notorious collector of things that glow, shine, or blink"
    CPF # 9435

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