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Thread: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

  1. #1

    Default EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    I know nothing about quality lights or batteries!!!


    First light purchase and I want to something tough that will last years. From use around the house, to my pack while hiking, to jungle trips, to using at work. I want one light that can be good at many things, and be durable.

    Another important factor is ability to blind someone. I want my family to be able to carry this light and blind someone if need be so they can escape.

    I put that my budget is $100, I would like that to be with batteries and a charger, if at all possible. Not a deal breaker, but would be nice to stay in budget.

    Need to purchase within two weeks, I leave for a jungle trek mid February.

    I take care of my equipment, cleaning, and updating as required. But I am not easy on EDC items. MP4 is my blade choice for durability for instance. I don't ever want to drop this light from my hip and see it in pieces, or have it sit in a wet pack for a few hours hiking and it wont turn on due to being damp.

    If it fits in my jeans pocket comfortably, all the better. if not so be it. handheld, for a woman's hand as well, is crucial.

    I travel often, it has to be in my backpack and make it through TSA no questions asked.







    1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

    __X__I would like to purchase the light in person from a brick and mortar store. I am located in __Boston, MA___.
    __X__This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).


    2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :-)


    _X_Up to $100.


    3) Format:

    _X__I want a flashlight (hand held/self contained).


    4) Size:

    __X_TINY - Every day carry (2-4 inches).
    __X__SMALL - Every day carry (4-7 inches).


    5) Emitter/Light source:

    __X_I don't know.


    6) Manufacturer:

    __X_I want to buy a light from a large/traditional manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
    __X_I would like a light from a specialty manufacturer (Possibly limited run/Custom).


    7) What power source do you want to use?

    _X__I don't know/I need more information on power sources.

    7a) If you have selected a rechargeable option
    __X_I want a separate/stand-alone charger (this involves removing the batteries to charge)
    __X_I don't care


    8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is not a happy experience).

    __X__I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (1-10 lumens).
    __X__I want an indoor "blackout" light (15-50 lumens)
    __X__I want to confidently walk around an unlit/unpaved rural area (60-150 lumens).
    __X__I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
    __X__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
    __X__I want search and rescue type illumination (800+ lumens).

    __X_SPECIAL NOTE: Burst/Turbo mode Category - There are several lights that will run at a super bright maximum for a very limited period (usually 5-10 minutes) and then will "step-down" to a lower level for thermal control. Check here if this is acceptable.


    9) Flood vs Throw: Flood covers an area, Throw reaches out to a distance.

    ____All Flood: I am doing "arms length" tasks like reading and campsite cooking.
    ____Wide Flood: I want a defined flood area for semi-close tasks like after-dark campsite tasks or working on a car.
    ____Narrow Flood: I want a sharply defined flood area that will project some distance for tasks like trail walking.
    __X__Wide Throw: I want a beam with a noticeable hot-center for distance throw and a significant amount of "side-spill". Good for rough trail hiking, search and rescue, and general distance work.
    __X__Narrow Throw: I want a beam with a very tight "hot center" and minimal "side-spill". Good for distance viewing, fog, and looking through dense undergrowth.
    __X__Turbohead: I want a far-distance projector with a sharply focused spot of light and minimal or zero side-spill. Good for extreme distance and impressing your friends.

    9a) Distance: How far away will you typically need to see with this light (check all that apply)
    __X__Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
    __X__Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
    __X__5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
    __X__30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
    ____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
    ____150+ yards (I am searching from a helicopter)

    10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum continuous output).

    _X___3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).




    11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

    __X__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).


    12) Switch Size, Type, and location (choose all that apply):

    __X__Any size switch will do.


    13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

    __X__I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
    __X__I want a strobe mode. (Oscillating pattern to confuse/blind aka "Police Mode")


    14)Material/Finish/Coating

    _X___I don’t care.

    15) Water resistance
    __X__IPX4 (Splash resistant)
    __X__IPX7 (Waterproof to 1 meter/30min)
    __X__IPX8 (Submersible to greater than 1 meter for 4 hours)

    16) Storage conditions
    __X__In house (temperature/climate controlled environment)
    __X__Emergency kit (long standby periods)
    __X__Automobile glove-box (wide temperature swings, long standby periods, critical reliability)


    17) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any/all below.

    ____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
    ____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
    ____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
    ____“Hybrid” light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
    ____Pocket/belt clip
    ____Holster
    ____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
    ____Crenulated bezel
    ____Non-sparking, Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments

  2. #2

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    The Streamlight 1L-2AA would likely fill the bill - runs on either a single CR123 or AA and will even run on an AAA in a pinch, though it is brightest running CR123's. Works great on rechargeable AA Eneloops and K2 Energy CR123 LFP rechargeables. Nice size to carry in a pocket.

    As for batteries and chargers, I would recommend AA Japanese made eneloops with either a Panasonic BQ CC-17 charger (usually sold bundled with 4 batteries, is a very good basic smart charger, though a bit slow) or the faster BQ CC-55 (probably a better choice for travel when you might need to charge cells fast). For the K2 Energy CR123 LFP batteries, I use a Xtar VP2 which has a 3.2V setting to charge LifePo4 cells. For primary/ NON-rechargeable cells the AA Energizer Ultimate lithiums are great as are any USA or Japanese made CR123's (I would avoid all Chinese made CR123s).
    Last edited by xxo; 01-12-2018 at 11:48 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    From what I could find hat light seems to be only 350 lumens max, is that correct? I don't feel that is enough power to blind someone to initiate an escape.......

  4. #4

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    From what I could find hat light seems to be only 350 lumens max, is that correct? I don't feel that is enough power to blind someone to initiate an escape.......
    It is plenty.

    If you think its not enough then no worries. I just got their 2L-X as a birthday gift. It’s brighter and not much larger. If you need more yet the HL- X has twice the punch as the 2L-X, but the HLX is too much for indoors unless you use the low or medium. I like keeping the HL-X on high only for outdoor use.

  5. #5

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    This is an outdoor light, not indoor. I'd like something with a punch, when needed.

    Fenix PD35Tac?
    Thru nite TN12?

  6. #6
    Flashaholic Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Also consider a Pflex Pro...fully potted for ruggedness and he carries a triple Nichia modified Convoy S2+ that puts out-the-front 800 lumens. About $75...Don’t own this particular light but have had a single emitter Pflex Pro S2 for a few months and have put it through hell with zero problems. Runs on 18650 rechargeable. Keep in mind that many pocketable, high output units will only hold these stated lumens for relatively short bursts due to integrated thermal management or step-down timer. They can get hot fast!
    Just gotta say...sounds like ruggedness and reliability are very high on your list...the toughest light I own is an Elzetta Bravo...I know it’s way over budget but man, that thing is built for abuse...just saying...if you could save up some cash...
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Modernflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    Also consider a Pflex Pro...fully potted for ruggedness and he carries a triple Nichia modified Convoy S2+ that puts out-the-front 800 lumens. About $75...Don’t own this particular light but have had a single emitter Pflex Pro S2 for a few months and have put it through hell with zero problems. Runs on 18650 rechargeable. Keep in mind that many pocketable, high output units will only hold these stated lumens for relatively short bursts due to integrated thermal management or step-down timer. They can get hot fast!
    Just gotta say...sounds like ruggedness and reliability are very high on your list...the toughest light I own is an Elzetta Bravo...I know it’s way over budget but man, that thing is built for abuse...just saying...if you could save up some cash...
    I like where your head is. The Elzetta would fit the bill. I would also recommend a Malkoff MD2. Less expensive than the Elzetta, even though it's not as bright. No nonsense. I have both, and they are both super duty work horses.
    Last edited by Modernflame; 01-13-2018 at 09:25 AM.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

  8. #8
    Flashaholic Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernflame View Post
    I like where your head is. The Elzetta would fit the bill. I would also recommend a Malkoff MD2. Less expensive than the Elzetta, even it's not as bright. No nonsense. I have both, and they are both super duty work horses.
    Great idea! I guess whenever I think “Rugged, Reliable”, I just default to Elzetta. But you are spot on. The Malkoff is much closer to the OP’s budget and built to last for sure. From my experience, customer service is second to none as well. That’s gotta be worth a few extra bucks any day! Maybe an MD2 HOT would strike a cord if one wants an eye burner? There’s one for sale on the WTS thread. (If it’s still available.)
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Malkoff or Pfelx Pro? Do the other two lights I mention make the cut?

    Where are the Malkoff in stock new?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Malkoff sells direct, online.

    If reliability and durability were the priority, it is what I would have (and indeed have) chosen.
    Last edited by archimedes; 01-13-2018 at 08:57 AM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  11. #11
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Just to add, OP, that your checklist above has some conflicting "wants" .... eg, 800+ lumens for 3+ hours, with a turbohead, ain't gonna be "tiny"
    ... is the archimedes peak

  12. #12
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    Buttrock Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    The malkoff and elzetta are tough enough to hammer nails with. If you don't need THAT rugged, then Fenix, Nitecore, Zebralight, Thrunite...etc. are all still tough lights. They also have alot more options for modes and such. If you want a light to run at max lumens for 3+ hours it's not going to be pocket friendly or cheap. But reading through your other requirements again i suggest a light that can run off 18650's and cr123's. Reason being you can use the 18650's in a powerbank/charger like the Nitecore F2 or similiar and save money by using rechargeables. The CR123's are good for freezing temps and work better for long term storage like in your car glove box. I recommend Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA's and the CR123's mentioned above for batteries. As far as lights go there are many options, i had similiar requirements as you and chose the Nitecore MH20 because it has a little extra throw with the larger head and can recharge 18650's by itself, as well as using CR123's (not rechargeable). It also has direct access to 1 lumen and 1000 lumen modes with one button press, and strobe mode with one press then a press and hold. But there are many lights on the market that have similiar features to suit your needs, not just the Nitecores. You should be able to get all the stuff mentioned above for around $100 if you shop around a bit. Since you arent familiar with high powered lights i caution you that 1000 lumens is plenty enough to cause eye damage and can get lights without good heatsinking very hot in a short time. Good luck on your quest and your jungle trek.
    Last edited by GRAY LITNIN; 01-13-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    From what I could find hat light seems to be only 350 lumens max, is that correct? I don't feel that is enough power to blind someone to initiate an escape.......
    Don’t rely on a light to blind somebody to that degree.

    That being said I can also back up Malkoff as a great choice. If you are going with 18650 rechargeable batteries you will need to spend a bit extra on getting a charger. If it’s possible consider extending your budget by $50-$70 and it will open up some more options for you.

    If you want something that is tough and long lasting you will be happy when you get your hands on a Malkoff.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    As we're talking overbudget...
    The Malkoff 18650 Hound Dog is my go too outside light, also works on low for indoors.
    If you have reasonably sized pockets it with fit them snugly, but you WILL know it's in there. It's both solid and relaible, and once you've spent the money it will still be going when cheaper lights have turned up their toes.
    P
    I'm looking for a couple of Oveready Battery Capsules, Delrin or Aluminium. If you have a spare would you please give me a shout? Thanks. Peter

  15. #15
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    The Malkoff 18650 Hound Dog is my go too outside light...
    Ah yes, the gold standard. As Peter said, it is over budget, but it will provide the long-lived durability and power that you need.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

  16. #16

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    After reading and reading more and getting more confused (half kidding), I'm leaning toward the Pflexpro M1. It's about $20 over budget with battery and charger.

    Any reason(s) NOT to go with this light?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    After reading and reading more and getting more confused (half kidding), I'm leaning toward the Pflexpro M1. It's about $20 over budget with battery and charger.

    Any reason(s) NOT to go with this light?
    I can't think of any reason not to. Actually, I kinda want one now. Which emitter will you choose? Personally, I'd go with the XPL2 U6 4000K 90CRI. Or maybe the Nichia 219c 5000K 90 CRI.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

  18. #18

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernflame View Post
    I can't think of any reason not to. Actually, I kinda want one now. Which emitter will you choose? Personally, I'd go with the XPL2 U6 4000K 90CRI. Or maybe the Nichia 219c 5000K 90 CRI.
    Ive been looking at PFlexPRO too and I like the XPL HI V3 in my nitecore MT40GT. I’d get the same emitter in the 5200K as I’m sure my MT40GT is cooler. I like the options of them lights and the price is budget compared to my old surefire days.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* Modernflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris74 View Post
    the price is budget compared to my old surefire days.
    I'm marveling a bit, myself.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

  20. #20
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    If you really need to blind someone, high lux numbers is the key, not high lumens. A triple/quad with optics wont give high lux numbers, it gets floody. Looking at the 1000+ lumen bulb in the roof of your livingroom wont blind you mutch. Looking into the beam of a 200 lumen thrower will blind. There is a good thread here about the difference between lux and lumens you should read if blinding someone comes high on your list.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ux-Explanation

  21. #21

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Had a great chat with Randy over at Pflexpro. I'm going to be buying an M1 AP.

    NEED HELP SETTING IT UP

    Which emitter do I want and why? The XML2/XPL or the XPL HI?

    Which tint? And why

    He recommends the AR lens and Enhanced FC

    Buy Sanyo batteries and a charger through him or different battery and charger elsewhere?
    Last edited by Bostonbull; 01-14-2018 at 07:21 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    Had a great chat with Randy over at Pflexpro. I'm going to be buying an M1 AP.

    NEED HELP SETTING IT UP

    Which emitter do I want and why? The XML2/XPL or the XPL HI?

    Which tint? And why

    He recommends the AR lens and Enhanced FC

    Buy Sanyo batteries and a charger through him or different battery and charger elsewhere?
    if you are looking to blind, as stated before, you want candela over lumens. High candela with high lumens is even better. My MT40GT on 90 lumens will blind better than my 600 lumen lights with much Lower candela. Of them ones listed the dedomed XPL HI V3 will give lots of candela and lots of throw. At the 1000 lumen setting it will cause pain to be felt in eyes up close. In reality just about any of them will do the same with high candela.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Please don't start the same (duplicate) discussion in two separate threads here.

    Please also no more discussion of intentional "blinding" , as offensive use of flashlights as weapons is not allowed on CPF

    Thank you
    ... is the archimedes peak

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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Please accept my apology for the comment above about "1000 lumens being enough to cause eye damage" that was more directed towards the user whether it be him or his family accidently or intentionally flashing the light in theirs or others eyes. Not necessarily being used for a weapon. I can edit it out if you believe it needs removed. I try to follow all rules to the utmost and was unaware of this one.. I also realize that ignorance is no excuse.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Thank you Gray, there were multiple comments here suggesting that this thread was trending towards a path of closure.

    Without getting into the weeds of who said what where, this is the general rule here ...

    No one on CPF should ... post any material ... which promotes activity that ... could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety.
    Last edited by archimedes; 01-14-2018 at 01:35 PM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  26. #26
    Flashaholic Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    Had a great chat with Randy over at Pflexpro. I'm going to be buying an M1 AP.

    NEED HELP SETTING IT UP

    Which emitter do I want and why? The XML2/XPL or the XPL HI?

    Which tint? And why

    He recommends the AR lens and Enhanced FC

    Buy Sanyo batteries and a charger through him or different battery and charger elsewhere?
    Tint is a matter of preference but for my two cents I prefer High CRI and warmer tint in anything I get. Things just look better to me as I don’t like the bluish effect of LEDs above 5700k. So my vote goes to XPL2 4000k 90 CRI. The XPL HI V3 in 5200k might be a nice compromise of tint and intensity. (Others can say it better than I, but cooler temps do have more “punch” at the same lumens but the increase is not worth it to me since 95% of the time I use my light for mundane around the house stuff at close range). I’d rather see objects closer to their true color than somewhat more illuminated.
    Don’t own the Xtar charger but from what I’ve heard they are a very good unit with a good reputation and the Sanyo 18650 GA is a good choice as well. For the sake of convenience, his price for the charger and battery seems very reasonable. Randy stands behind his builds as well. I think it’s a great choice!
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonbull View Post
    Which emitter do I want and why? The XML2/XPL or the XPL HI?

    Which tint? And why
    A lot of us on CPF are very particular about these things, but it comes down to preference. Personally, I'd opt for one of the 90+ CRI emitters. This means that your flashlight will render colors very accurately, but the trade off is output. It won't be as bright as, say, one of the 6000K cool white options. What's most important for this device? Raw power or color rendition?

    Another thing to consider is throw. The XPL and XPL HI emitters will have a narrower beam than the XML2, and will throw further. The difference could be more or less significant, depending on the reflector. Since I don't have one of these, I can't comment on the exact specs. However, this flashlight will have a broad, useful beam regardless of which emitter you choose. Which is more important? Broader beam or narrower hotspot?
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    Thank you Gray, there were multiple comments here suggesting that this thread was trending towards a path of closure.

    Without getting into the weeds of who said what where, this is the general rule here ...

    No one on CPF should ... post any material ... which promotes activity that ... could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety.
    Thank you for the clarity archimedes!!!

    Back to the OP, this may help you http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-use-of-Strobe
    Last edited by GRAY LITNIN; 01-14-2018 at 02:50 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    I want as natural of a color as I can get. No blue tint if it is avoidable. I'll sometimes use this light at night for reading, and don't need blue tint.

    Randy did mention the throw in the two is significant, close to 80 meters. I think I'd rather a shorter and wider throw for spotting animals at night? Or am I thinking wrong here and anything past 100' will be plenty lit up no matter which I choose?

    This is mainly an outdoor light, keep that in mind. Where I live is urban, and light polluted. Something that can overcome that and make things appear as if daytime would be nice.

    What else am I missing?
    Last edited by Bostonbull; 01-14-2018 at 04:46 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: EDC/High Lumen/Tough - Help & Education

    Taking those things into account, my top choices would be XPL2 U6 4000K 90CRI or Nichia 219C D240 90+CRI, either 4000K or 5000K.

    There are probably several others that would satisfy. Anything in the range of 4000K to 5000K for color temperature will probably be around 80 CRI, which is pretty good. I have several devices like that. If you don't like the blue tint, then steer clear of anything with 6000K or 7000K.

    Just real quick, color temperature is measured in degrees Kelvin. The higher numbers (6000K, 7000K) tend to have a "cooler" appearance and thus more blue. The "neutral" emitters are around 4000K to 5000K. Incandescent light bulbs in your house are in the neighborhood of 3000K, and are more yellow. I've over simplified, but this should help you make a decision.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
    J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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