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Thread: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

  1. #1
    Flashaholic
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    Default Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    That is what the OWNER of one of my favorite battery dealers told me yesterday.

    He said they[Panasonic/Sanyo] Officially are already out but continue to make much smaller quantities of cells for their battery pack customers.

    Anyone else heard about this. It was surprising to me. I could not find any other info. on it.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    There was a tiny bit of some similar rumors floating around one of the smaller high end vaping forums (I can't remember which one right now) about Panasonic leaving the battery business a while ago, but I took it with a grain a salt back then, but who knows, maybe it wasn't just talk. Panasonic batts don't get used nearly as much as some of the other brands out there in vaping mods, so like I say, I didn't think much of it then. I keep a pretty big web history, so I may try and find the thread again and see if there was any worthwhile information posted or any updates, and if so, will report back.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Panasonic is currently manufacturing millions of 21700 cylindrical cells for Tesla. So I doubt they are exiting the business.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I guess we will see.I am just relaying info. I will ask Jon about Tesla,,,,,,,,,,,,,possibly he was specifically talking about 18650,,,,,,,,,,,,but he did not mention that in his long and detailed email.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Another thought,,Maybe they[TESLA] are the battery pack customers he was talking about? I just emailed him,,,,,,will find out his answer to your Tesla info. on Monday.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    The cell suppliers, like Panasonic, Samsung, LG, etc definitely do not want their cylindrical cells to be used individually in a device like a flashlight or e-cig. So maybe Panasonic will do all they can to restrict use of the cells to battery packs. Sony has already exited the cylindrical LI-ion cell business.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    The cell suppliers, like Panasonic, Samsung, LG, etc definitely do not want their cylindrical cells to be used individually in a device like a flashlight or e-cig. So maybe Panasonic will do all they can to restrict use of the cells to battery packs.
    That may be true. He also mentioned how hard[ basically have to beg] it is to get these batteries from the battery pack customers.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    He just replied back and basically said that to his understanding the 21700 can not really be used outside of EV's since they do not have the normal safety mechanisms incorporated.

    Also said that, yes they are focusing ALL their production on these special partnership cells for automotive applications. None of those will likely ever get on the market loose.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* MrAl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Hi,

    Who will be left then to make these cells?
    Take care,
    Al
    LED's vs Bulbs, the battle is on.
    My bumper sticker: "I Brake for LED's"
    To err is human, to theorize divine.

    Got Light?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Chinese manufacturers will be happy to produce them.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Holy &^&^%$ if this is true.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Before Sony sold their battery business to Murata, they sent out a warning letter advising against use of their Li-ion batteries outside of a battery pack.
    More details here:
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/th...d-that.748849/

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    Holy &^&^%$ if this is true.
    China, and Chinese companies, are being very aggressive about becoming the world's leader in battery manufacturing and research.

    Just one example:
    http://www.scmp.com/tech/science-res...tesla-capacity

    ...Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd, or CATL, already sells the most batteries to the biggest electric-vehicle makers in the biggest EV market: China. Now it wants to use proceeds from a pending initial public offering backed by Goldman Sachs to get under the hoods of more European marques and secure customers in the US....

    ...“Their intentions are very clear,” said Simon Moores, London-based managing director of battery sector consultant Benchmark Mineral Intelligence. “To not just be China’s biggest battery producer but the world’s largest.”...

    ...Menahem Anderman, president of Total Battery Consulting in Petaluma, California, went to see CATL’s headquarters for himself in January and found a company in the process of becoming a world-class battery maker. “Technically they are a probably a tad behind the big three,” he said, citing Panasonic, Samsung SDI and LG Chem. “But considering how fast they have been moving, it’s reasonable to assume that in two to three years they’ll have a technically similar product.”...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Ah, no!
    Check my Web Site: www.Redwayphoto.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    [QUOTE=SubLGT;5197181]China, and Chinese companies, are being very aggressive about becoming the world's leader in battery manufacturing and research.

    Just one example:
    http://www.scmp.com/tech/science-res...tesla-capacity[/QUOTE
    We are 40 years head of China in batteries, don't worry about it.
    Check my Web Site: www.Redwayphoto.com

  16. #16

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I really hope this is a rumor. No way this can't be true. That's like saying alkalines or AA is going to be phased out.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I recently ordered a bunch of 18650 cells which I put in long-term storage in the refrigerator. I only see the problem of obtaining/shipping lithium-ion cells getting worse in the future.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I don't think that is going to happen. If anything. Lithium ion in the future may at last be safe once the new and improved cells comes to market.

    I have yet to see a confimation of Panasonic phasing out. If anything, Elon Musk is demanding more lithium ion for his Tesla cars.

    Quite frankly, i can't just see this happening. What the market really wants is to make lithium ions to be as safe as NiMh. More the reason to keep researching on battery tech.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLED View Post
    ...We are 40 years head of China in batteries, don't worry about it.
    In manufacturing, China is way ahead of the USA.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...k-in-batteries

    While Tesla may be building the biggest and splashiest factory, the Chinese government has launched a sweeping effort to increase the country’s dominant market share.

    Roughly 55 percent of global lithium-ion battery production is already based in China, compared with 10 percent in the U.S. By 2021, China’s share is forecast to grow to 65 percent, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

    “This is about industrial policy. The Chinese government sees lithium-ion batteries as a hugely important industry in the 2020s and beyond,” Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst Colin McKerracher said.

    Yet while China lacks a dominant battery behemoth, it makes up for it with a constellation of smaller players, including Amperex Technology Ltd., Tianjin Lishen Battery Joint-Stock Co. and dozens of others.

    Earlier this year, the Chinese government announced plans to consolidate battery manufacturers to help the industry mature.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MarioJP View Post
    I don't think that is going to happen. If anything. Lithium ion in the future may at last be safe once the new and improved cells comes to market.
    Maybe. But will future cells still have the same characteristics, size, and voltage of current 18650 cells we need for our flashlights? Or will they be dumbed-down for consumer use?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Maybe. But will future cells still have the same characteristics, size, and voltage of current 18650 cells we need for our flashlights? Or will they be dumbed-down for consumer use?
    Cylindrical cells still and will have their place as that is a universal size. Panasonic sells 21700's by themselves. Would be awesome to upgrade to that size. Also, in a way; this is like a step back to dumb-down. For every device with a battery in it that you no longer want then what?

    This is the reason why when i was looking at power banks. Went with a removable 18650 power bank instead of the "consumer version"


    I have yet to hear anything being official from Panasonic. Would be a bold move if they do. China will have no problems filling in this gap lol.
    Last edited by MarioJP; 04-09-2018 at 04:04 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Just googled this and the only thing I could find about Panasonic getting out of the business were rumors posted on candle power forums.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by flphotog View Post
    Just googled this and the only thing I could find about Panasonic getting out of the business were rumors posted on candle power forums.
    I could not find much on the subject either. At the same time I am NOT doubting what the owner of a Lithium Ion battery co. is saying.

    TIME WILL TELL. WE WILL SEE.

    Please note: Jon did NOT say Lithium Ion batteries are phasing out.

    He said they[Panasonic/Sanyo] Officially are already out but continue to make much smaller quantities of cells for their largest battery pack customers.

    In addition he said that it is very difficult to get batteries from these battery pack recipients,,,,,basically has to beg them!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    I recently ordered a bunch of 18650 cells which I put in long-term storage in the refrigerator.
    What is your recommendation for long term storage of a li-ion rechargeable?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by sbslider View Post
    What is your recommendation for long term storage of a li-ion rechargeable?
    I bought some common name-brand batteries: Samsung 30Q's, Sanyo GA's, and Sony VTC6's. Ran them through a couple of cycles and made sure they were good and held a full charge for a few days. Then I discharged to 3.75v, sealed them in ziplock bags, and put them in the refrigerator. I'll check on them in a couple of years, and charge them back up to 3.75v if necessary.

    From what I've read, this should result in them losing maybe 2% capacity each year. This is far better than the 20% they might lose each year if kept fully charged at room temperature.

    I'm hoping they last 10 years in storage, though I'll be okay if they last 5 years and still have good capacity and high discharge ability.

    I think lithium-ion cells can last longer than most people think. I have some salvaged Samsung 18650's from a laptop that is around 10 years old. They aren't high drain, but they never were in the first place. They still have about 60% or 70% of their rated capacity, which isn't bad for cells which weren't properly stored.

    If you live in the US, you have easier access to quality cells, and probably will for quite some time. Here in Canada, about the last place that will still ship 18650's to me is the U.S., and I have no idea how much longer that will last. Locally, our selection of 18650's suck.
    Last edited by WalkIntoTheLight; 04-10-2018 at 06:07 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    I bought some common name-brand batteries: Samsung 30Q's, Sanyo GA's, and Sony VTC6's. Ran them through a couple of cycles and made sure they were good and held a full charge for a few days. Then I discharged to 3.75v, sealed them in ziplock bags, and put them in the refrigerator. I'll check on them in a couple of years, and charge them back up to 3.75v if necessary.

    From what I've read, this should result in them losing maybe 2% capacity each year. This is far better than the 20% they might lose each year if kept fully charged at room temperature.
    Thanks for the quick response, I appreciate it! I recently bought some 16340 cells I don't really need for my S1R, and figured that storing them "properly" would be a better option then just leaving them laying around.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I am not sure who is right. I have heard people say putting L.Ion in the refrigerator can lengthen their life and I have heard others say refrigeration has No benefit.

    I think the biggest key is discharging them to ~ 3.60v and storing them in a cool place. Maybe 60F

  28. #28

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I suspect the biggest "benefit" of refrigeration is constant temperature. I would be hard pressed to find a place to keep a battery, or anything else, at 60F where I live. For lithium primaries lower temps are definitely better and prevent self discharge and increase of internal resistance.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    I'll still think that there won't be any issues of buying cells in the future and only going to get better as technology progresses.
    But anyways.

    I know keeping cells in the refrigerator slows down self-discharge, but wouldn't condensation be bad for them?

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Panasonic phasing out of Cylindrical Battery Business

    Quote Originally Posted by sbslider View Post
    I suspect the biggest "benefit" of refrigeration is constant temperature. I would be hard pressed to find a place to keep a battery, or anything else, at 60F where I live. For lithium primaries lower temps are definitely better and prevent self discharge and increase of internal resistance.
    My basement which has a Dehumidifier. More like 64F but basically constant.

    Mario brought up a good point about condensation. I believe that was the argument Against refrigeration.

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