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Thread: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - CR123/Alkaline Comparo

  1. #331
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    This is good.

    MD2 M61T is my current EDC. I do have the dual mode feature installed. Which is marginally useful but better than not having it. What if I get stuck in a cave for 66 hours.
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  2. #332
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Here is the completed M61T.1 Rayovac Comparison Graph


    Here is the completed M61T.1 2x Li-ion comparison


    Here is the M61T.1 Single Li-Ion Comparison. I find the 16650/18500 behavior a little odd
    Last edited by INFRNL; 09-08-2018 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #333
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    I have m61 325/425 data for md3/md4 tests. Currently running the first md2 18650 test

    Will post 2x li-ion comparison graph in this post later tonight. Going to spend some time with the wife first. Date night at home!

    OK...Here are the first of the M61 325/425 results
    Last edited by INFRNL; 09-08-2018 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #334
    Flashaholic Jose Marin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Awesome job dude they look great
    Granny shiftin not double clutchin like you should

    Wanted: quark 18650 body and malkoff wildcat v5 5000k mtg2 head

  5. #335
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Thanks

    I uploaded the M61 325/425 graph in my last post. Currently running MD2 18650 tests.

    As you can see, 425 is 100 lumens more than 325. 18650 MD4 yields 1hr more runtime from 325 over 425.
    18500 MD4 yields 35min more runtime 325 over 425.

    So there are some significant increases in runtime from 325 over 425...just something to think about. I guess if you don't own the modules that got updated and want them for runtime; you will have to look at the market and make sure you know which version you are getting.

    When I am done testing i will post the current draw of ea module on various voltages.This will kind of show where ea module excels and the effects of different setups.

    More to come this week. Not sure what all I plan to test exactly as there are too many tests to cover all options. Since the 425 is on loan, Maybe I will do the main comparisons, then complete all tests for the 425 module so I can get it back to it's home. then wen i have time i can finish my 325 module for complete comparisons.

  6. #336
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Wait a second, I thought M61T was a 9V module, yet the first graph in the last post says MD4 on primaries, does that mean it was run on 4x123?
    Please clarify.


    This design utilizes a tightly focused TIR optic. The Optic offers a tight beam for maximum throw. The Lux at 1 meter is 12,000. It is an outstanding medium to long range spotter. It will easily illuminate objects at 450+ feet and will blind opponents within a 150 foot radius. The LED is a Cree XP-L HI.

    The input voltage is 3.4 - 9 volts. The runtime on two primary CR123 cells is approximately 1.5 hrs. Below 3.4 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive. This dropin is protected against reverse polarity.
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  7. #337
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by INFRNL View Post
    Thanks

    I uploaded the M61 325/425 graph in my last post. Currently running MD2 18650 tests.

    As you can see, 425 is 100 lumens more than 325. 18650 MD4 yields 1hr more runtime from 325 over 425.
    18500 MD4 yields 35min more runtime 325 over 425.

    So there are some significant increases in runtime from 325 over 425...just something to think about. I guess if you don't own the modules that got updated and want them for runtime; you will have to look at the market and make sure you know which version you are getting.

    When I am done testing i will post the current draw of ea module on various voltages.This will kind of show where ea module excels and the effects of different setups.

    More to come this week. Not sure what all I plan to test exactly as there are too many tests to cover all options. Since the 425 is on loan, Maybe I will do the main comparisons, then complete all tests for the 425 module so I can get it back to it's home. then wen i have time i can finish my 325 module for complete comparisons.


    what is the increase between M61 ("425") 1x18650 versus 2x18650?
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  8. #338
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    You are correct....seems as though I ran 1 too many tests according to all my info.

    Let me look into this, But, I am almost positive that i only ran MD2, MD3 MD4 primaries...not MD1, MD2 MD3. MD1@3v would not put out 450lm.

    I guess I messed up. I probably wouldn't recommend running 4 primaries or going over rated specs unless its a hair above. I know there are a couple other lights modules that will run higher than rated...just can't recall which they were. Someone asked about it and i tested them.

    I will look into it but i'm pretty certain that is MD4 primary. It would explain the high output and not a whole lot of gain over MD3

  9. #339
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    what is the increase between M61 ("425") 1x18650 versus 2x18650?
    The difference is approx 100lm, same difference as 325 vs 425







    I have also verified that the M61T will run at 12v. I just ran it to 12.6v loaded. oops had another brain malfunction. I should have tested right at 12v.

    I will have to check this light on my logging meter. I got lower output reading when I powered it from my power supply on my ea30 meter. More in line with the original reading i think.

    Either way, M61T will run 12v but I do not recommend it as this is way above specs. I ran 12.6v which is enough to run on 3x Li-ion...but as I mentioned DO NOT RUN OVER RATED 9v...unless you are brave/stupid as myself. I must of had something on my mind to test this module on MD4


    I can tell you that @3.2v and 12v; this is where current draw is the least

  10. #340
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Ok, i know what drove me to do the md4 primary test...but it was apparently the wrong light.

    ETC at one point really wanted me to do an md4 primary test...so i figured just this one time.
    I don't remember what light he wanted tested...probably M91T

    The m61t results are correct. Output might be a little inflated but the tests/runtime are correct




    EDIT: m61 425 appears to be approx 100lm higher than 325 on 2x li-ion

    425 appears to be approx 60lm higher than 325 on single li-ion

    From my messing around earlier, my recent m61t tests appear to be reading roughly 40-50lm higher on my logging meter depending on voltage. Maybe my original meter is reading the beam profile of the t better than my logging meter.

    I know neither is 100% accurate but originally they were both setup with the same readings. I'll try to dig into it a bit more as time allows. I don't think all modules are way off, mainly the m61t...however the initial tests were closer to what they should be. So i guess, if any of the tests seem a bit off...just figure the initial/starting readings are a bit high. Runtime is runtime though and that is the most important part of all of this.
    Last edited by INFRNL; 09-09-2018 at 03:27 AM.

  11. #341
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by INFRNL View Post
    I have m61 325/425 data for md3/md4 tests.
    Thanks for taking the time! The graph looks great. Very satisfying to have the actual data.
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  12. #342
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    ^ +1 on graphs and runtimes!

  13. #343
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Thanks...Yes, it is nice to get the visual.

    MD2 18650 tests should be done here in a couple hours or so...done enough for me to make the graphs...imagination will have to finish out the tests

    I think I will do something to get a rough idea of temperature differences.



    Have you guys seen that Illumn is now selling 1200mah 18350 protected cells? I will have to get a couple pr and compare to the 900mah cells.

  14. #344
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Infrnl: I saw that too. I was browsing the site now and looking for news


    It's a shame that the malkoff mdc cr123 host does not support this type of battery, but anyways I plan to buy some of those new 18350 for testing.


    About IMR 16340 batteries for the bodyguard flashlight, which battery do you guys recommend?
    Are these Efest IMR16340 V2 700mAh good and reliable?

  15. #345
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    for IMR any of the big names are usually good. That probably goes for any cell.
    I am not sure what all is available but i would probably choose Keeppower. You might be able to search HJK's tests as some might perform better than others. I believe the efests are good, but I don't follow cells and am not sure what exactly to recommend.

    hmmm...apparently efest has an protected 16340 that is 850mah. not a huge gain over 700. I can't remember, but I thought in the past that efest capacity was lower than rated...I know most are but IDk. Something to look into. Seems that 650/700 is the norm for 16340.

    I have some of the AW rcr123 and typically use the keeppower 16340's but mine are all protected, not IMR.
    Last edited by INFRNL; 09-09-2018 at 05:09 PM.

  16. #346
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Yes, outstanding work as usual - thank you.
    I am surprised that M61T does work on 4x123 primaries, that is amazing. I suppose it is an example of what "Don't do that".

    If you have time, would be interesting to see M91T on 3x18650
    "MD6"
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  17. #347
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by INFRNL View Post
    I have m61 325/425 data for md3/md4 tests. Currently running the first md2 18650 test

    Will post 2x li-ion comparison graph in this post later tonight. Going to spend some time with the wife first. Date night at home!

    OK...Here are the first of the M61 325/425 results

    this does highlight the reason to keep the old M61 - lower lumens, better runtime.

    of course the 500+ lumens of the new M61 is hard to resist, I am glad I have both.
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  18. #348
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Here is the complete M61 425 2x Li-Ion Graph...325 module not included (still need to test other cells)


    Here is the 325/425 Single 18650 Comparison


    Here is the 325/425 Comparison between single and dual Li-Ion
    Last edited by INFRNL; 09-10-2018 at 10:12 PM.

  19. #349
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    with two lions seems to me that this new dropin is interesting in terms of luminosity, but as expected, the runtime of the previous version is better in any scenario.
    so I end up agreeing with some who have already said that in general the old dropin is better...


    anyway, it's an excellent product, it's a malkoff

  20. #350
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by INFRNL View Post
    Here is the complete M61 425 2x Li-Ion Graph...325 module not included (still need to test other cells)

    Here is the 325/425 Comparison between single and dual Li-Ion
    I did something interesting here, I measured the area of each M61 on MD4. I got the numbers of 118,800 for the old M61 and 111800 for the new M61. this means that the overall output of the old M61 is greater but by a very tiny margin. It could also be just an error in math as the areas are not perfectly square.

    the old M61 produces less lumens for for longer, the total lumen output is about the same.

    Depending on the situation, the old M61 might be what you want, or the new M61.
    Last edited by etc; 09-11-2018 at 10:45 AM.
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  21. #351
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    I think the people just coming into our family will be plenty happy with the upgraded modules...or they won't know any better until they learn some of the history. Just as I don't know anything other than the 325 and all the versions I have.

    I think most people will use this M61 module as 18650 or primary only lights, so they will not see the difference. They should be plenty happy with a higher output device at pretty much the same price.

    I guess it would kind of be like cell phones for example. I love technology even though I have higher priorities than in the past. Cells phones; I update every six months to a yr. (I'm fighting to just do annual updates). I don''t care if only minor changes come. Some will only upgrade over what they have if the change is significant enough or the current item fails. That would be the smartest option.
    So, there will be some that want the updated module and some that have no need to get the updated module.

    Hope that made sense...I lost my reasoning

    I have M61 425 MD2 rayovac primary test done and md3 rayovac test started. will post md2 results later tonight.

  22. #352
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    I almost have all my data now for the M61 425. I missed a few tests and have been running them since yesterday. I have a lot of data to go through and made into graphs. I will start M61 325 tests for comparison but not sure how far i will make it. I will have some new graphs done at some point this weekend.

  23. #353

    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Hello there, sir! I looked to no avail to see if you had done 3x cr123 on the m61wll and WL drop-ins. I know you did the lithium AND Eneloop AA test as well as the comparison between 1 and 2 cr123 primaries in the WLL. I am, like many a fan of the 9p and G 3 and MD3 for omnivores but can't find runtimes on 3 cells.

    I know there was interesting data on the m60 series that showed output increase and runtimes decrease in the third cell- I am hoping that is NOT the case with the M61WL or M61WLL. Imho, if you haven't run these yet, and can't stomach doing both, the WLL would be my preference!

    Hope you are well and staying safe in your travels!

  24. #354
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Ya when I saw that using 3 cells with a M61 didn’t really increase runtime I was extremely disappointed. That’s why I got my 3 cell body for. Not sure but I think it’s the same for the M60ll. 😞
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  25. #355
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Sorry, been really busy this week and it hasn't been the best week either.

    I will get the test run so you can see. I also have a bunch of m61 425 graphs i need to do along with more testing on the m61 325

  26. #356
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by thermal guy View Post
    Ya when I saw that using 3 cells with a M61 didn’t really increase runtime I was extremely disappointed. That’s why I got my 3 cell body for. Not sure but I think it’s the same for the M60ll. 😞
    Where have you seen the runtime on 3x123? the only chart I see involving MD3 is 2x18500 cells and you know how these go.

    do you mean your personal experience?
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  27. #357
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    No it was in here somewhere. Not sure what drop in it was on. Thinking it was M61LL might have been M60LL. not sure
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  28. #358
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by thermal guy View Post
    No it was in here somewhere. Not sure what drop in it was on. Thinking it was M61LL might have been M60LL. not sure
    3x123 configuration vastly extends the runtime versus 2x123 in all configurations I've seen. Especially the old M61LL.

    You would think that 3x123 is 50% bigger and thus longer than 2x123, in actuality it's even greater than that, runtime-wise. It's more efficient. It's 50% plus 10 free minutes. IOW, if you get 1 hour out of 2x123, you will get not 90 minutes but 100 minutes out of 3 cells.

    4x123 is even more so. It has more than twice the runtime of 2x123 - in the modules that can handle 12V.



    The only good thing about 1x18650/2x123 is compactness and that is why it's a popular EDC choice. It seems to EDC better than MD3 types.
    Last edited by etc; 09-24-2018 at 02:30 PM.
    ****** Malkoff Devices ****** “Learn to light a candle in the darkest moments of someone’s life. Be the light that helps others see; it is what gives life its deepest significance.” ― Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  29. #359
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Yes I would think so but I remember reading on here that that is not the case. If I’m wrong great hope I am.sure someone will chime in with the post.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  30. #360

    Default Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

    Regarding Malkoff's M60LL on two and three cells this may be one of the posts you are referring to.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?328980-Malkoff-M61LL-runtime

    Last edited by NotRegulated; 09-24-2018 at 03:11 PM.

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