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Thread: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    One lux is one lumen covering one square meter. So if your 500 lumen mulehead light is covering one square meter at arms reach, you got 500 lux.
    For me, i use both, but mostly use the lower modes. If i go up mountain for a one week fishing trip, i dont want to carry a pile of spare cells. I find it mutch better to not totally destroy my night adapted eyes in the dark. It takes around 20 minutes to get the night adapted vision back if you totally ruin it. Even when walking in the mountains i dont use more light than i need. It's so mutch better to be able to see the mountaintops a mile away in the dark. Easy to navigate when i can see further than just my bubble of light. At home or around civilization, i dont care and just blast whatever lumens i got.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    The Malkoff M61T with its dual modes is just perfect. 18 lumens on low and 400+ on high. And high lux on both. (relatively so).

    I used to run Surefire G2x Pro, with the 15 / 320 lumen combo, which wasn't bad either. But this M61T takes it to the next level.

    I suspect many here will love M61HOT, which with dual modes generates a very low 5 lumen low mode (which I found unacceptably low) while at the same time being very high lux given the low lumens and a very high lumen high mode, of course also with high-lux.

    Primary CR123 batteries are light. When I travel, I take about 12 with me as spares. Over a 2 week trip, and I bring about half back. Don't even use them all. My last trip involved two lights - Malkoff M61LL in a "9p" package and a Surefire G2x Pro. The Malkoff I ran in its single mode while G2x Pro I usually ran on high.

    I think I replaced cells in the G2x once or twice and M61LL never got a cell change despite extensive usage. Which makes me wonder if I should have just brought M61 with me and not worried about anything. The good olde M61 is really such a fine device. Was then - and still is.

    I think next time I will take about 16 primaries with me. That's still a very compact package.
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  3. #33

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Thanks Arch and Gurdy.... yup, I'm still very much a low lumen fan. I use four modes 0.4/3/20/200+lms about 50/40/8/2% (respectively) of the time, and recharge a 16340 or 14500 cell after ~60-80 hrs of usage. I generally don't carry spare batts, just a AAA keychain backup light, and my primary EDC will run off literally any battery I can scavenge.

    I really enjoy using low lows to let my eyes dark adapt and use my night vision - that allows me see quite well outside of the light's beam and I find I enjoy the outdoor experience much more. That's due to a few things: excessive lumens kills my vision outside the cone of my beam and the resulting gigantic blind spot scares me; I find the extreme contrast of bright light against pitch black background to be quite annoying; and there's even something really nice about being a part of the environment vs trying to blasting it way with technology.

    I'm also an ultra-light camper (and sometimes stealth) that use lights 4hrs straight so the extreme runtime/lack of need for spare batts is appreciated. Most of my the task work while camping is with my hands were 0.4 lms is usually plenty (and perfect for reading in bed) - anything >3 lms used at an arm's length tends to produce annoying glare... for me.

    But again, I like keeping my eyes relatively well dark adapted, which may not be practical for those folks that use their lights for just brief periods of time. The eye has an incredible dynamic range - 0.5lms can painfully bright when woken from sleep, yet 500lms on the beach can barely be seen. The difference is how long you allow your eyes to adapt..... and about 400 battery changes. "Luke.... use the night vision."


  4. #34
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    I can't.... This is too silly.... Everyone uses gear differently as everyone has different needs. So what is useless to one person might be of value to another. Only on the internet do we try to tell others their uses are of no value as if we could possibly know better than the actual person.
    Last edited by Woods Walker; 05-25-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    Thanks Arch and Gurdy.... yup, I'm still very much a low lumen fan. I use four modes 0.4/3/20/200+lms about 50/40/8/2% (respectively) of the time, and recharge a 16340 or 14500 cell after ~60-80 hrs of usage. I generally don't carry spare batts, just a AAA keychain backup light, and my primary EDC will run off literally any battery I can scavenge.

    I really enjoy using low lows to let my eyes dark adapt and use my night vision - that allows me see quite well outside of the light's beam and I find I enjoy the outdoor experience much more. That's due to a few things: excessive lumens kills my vision outside the cone of my beam and the resulting gigantic blind spot scares me; I find the extreme contrast of bright light against pitch black background to be quite annoying; and there's even something really nice about being a part of the environment vs trying to blasting it way with technology.

    I'm also an ultra-light camper (and sometimes stealth) that use lights 4hrs straight so the extreme runtime/lack of need for spare batts is appreciated. Most of my the task work while camping is with my hands were 0.4 lms is usually plenty (and perfect for reading in bed) - anything >3 lms used at an arm's length tends to produce annoying glare... for me.

    But again, I like keeping my eyes relatively well dark adapted, which may not be practical for those folks that use their lights for just brief periods of time. The eye has an incredible dynamic range - 0.5lms can painfully bright when woken from sleep, yet 500lms on the beach can barely be seen. The difference is how long you allow your eyes to adapt..... and about 400 battery changes. "Luke.... use the night vision."

    Interesting points you have.
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  6. #36

    Default Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    I cannot envision using a hound dog under the hood of a car. To my eyes that is literally an unpleasantly painfully bright hotspot especially if run at any kind of high output, which to my eyes with a beam like a hound dog used at less than 5 feet, anything over 200 lumens sounds painful... Yikes. To each their own.
    Last edited by InvisibleFrodo; 05-25-2018 at 12:12 PM.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful


    PK agrees low mode is useless...
    His keychain light here tells the story.
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  8. #38

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Why is he only using the little light? Haha

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    I cannot envision using a hound dog under the hood of a car. To my eyes that is literally an unpleasantly painfully bright hotspot especially if run at any kind of high output, which to my eyes with a beam like a hound dog used at less than 5 feet, anything over 200 lumens sounds painful... Yikes. To each their own.
    I didn't say under the hood of the car, but underneath a large truck that's probably 20 feet long. Because you are dealing with car stuff, you want max lumens thrown upon something to get the most accurate understanding what has gone wrong. This is the not the time or the place to economize lumens.

    Is that spot rusty or not? Is that wire broken or just seems that way? Is there a leak involved? (or just seems that way) Yeah, throwing 600 lumens upon it is just right. I use M61HOT these days, it's most compact and just right.

    I tried Malkoff M61 and just wasn't pinpointing critical details with the level of accuracy I wanted. This is not the question of is there a tree 20 feet ahead of me but delicate work at times.

    My problem was that the Hound Dog was too large to maneuver around. Yet its hotspot wasn't all that bad at all and the generous spill was great. I did stupidly take a Hound Dog Super to an automotive project and that thing is too high lux at any range. You have to be 50 meters away from the car to see it.
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  10. #40

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    I didn't say under the hood of the car, but underneath a large truck that's probably 20 feet long. Because you are dealing with car stuff, you want max lumens thrown upon something to get the most accurate understanding what has gone wrong. This is the not the time or the place to economize lumens.

    Is that spot rusty or not? Is that wire broken or just seems that way? Is there a leak involved? (or just seems that way) Yeah, throwing 600 lumens upon it is just right. I use M61HOT these days, it's most compact and just right.

    I tried Malkoff M61 and just wasn't pinpointing critical details with the level of accuracy I wanted. This is not the question of is there a tree 20 feet ahead of me but delicate work at times.

    My problem was that the Hound Dog was too large to maneuver around. Yet its hotspot wasn't all that bad at all and the generous spill was great. I did stupidly take a Hound Dog Super to an automotive project and that thing is too high lux at any range. You have to be 50 meters away from the car to see it.
    This is simply a case of to each their own. I completely understand the need to see clearly. When I'm inspecting welds inside a 14 foot diameter boiler that will be installed at a power plant, I need to see in detail exactly what's happening. 600 lumens is an amount of light I would never use at those ranges, and particularly not in a light specially designed for high output throw, because that's so much light all in one spot that it hurts my eyes and makes me see spots because the hotspot spot is so bright. Then since I'm seeing spots I won't be able to see what I'm looking at well anymore, and any light sensitivity my eyes had just got blown away. The problem for me at that point becomes the incredible concentration of light at that hotspot. For me, a high output throw light is for outdoor use or use in larger open areas.

    Go with whatever works for you. I just know I literally can't inspect that way. What you're describing is too much light concentrated into too small an area for me.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    I think the Low modes are most useful for lights that cannot sustain a medium mode for very long and the high mode is very short in duration. In lights with 18650 batteries low modes can run for days and often aren't that useful as you get more than enough runtime on medium modes. With car batteries for backup and cheap rechargeable battery prices and charges instead of relying on a low mode in an emergency you can just charge batteries if you ever run low on them.
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  12. #42

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Ahhhhhhh....I love reading Uncle Reppan's responses on low lumens. QUESTIONS!! What is your backup AAA light? AND.....do you think you'd be more of a Zebralight fan if the quoted runtime specs were closer to what you got in real life? I know you got your Quarks lined up in a row and should be good for the rest of your life but just curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    Thanks Arch and Gurdy.... yup, I'm still very much a low lumen fan. I use four modes 0.4/3/20/200+lms about 50/40/8/2% (respectively) of the time, and recharge a 16340 or 14500 cell after ~60-80 hrs of usage. I generally don't carry spare batts, just a AAA keychain backup light, and my primary EDC will run off literally any battery I can scavenge.I really enjoy using low lows to let my eyes dark adapt and use my night vision - that allows me see quite well outside of the light's beam and I find I enjoy the outdoor experience much more. That's due to a few things: excessive lumens kills my vision outside the cone of my beam and the resulting gigantic blind spot scares me; I find the extreme contrast of bright light against pitch black background to be quite annoying; and there's even something really nice about being a part of the environment vs trying to blasting it way with technology.I'm also an ultra-light camper (and sometimes stealth) that use lights 4hrs straight so the extreme runtime/lack of need for spare batts is appreciated. Most of my the task work while camping is with my hands were 0.4 lms is usually plenty (and perfect for reading in bed) - anything >3 lms used at an arm's length tends to produce annoying glare... for me.But again, I like keeping my eyes relatively well dark adapted, which may not be practical for those folks that use their lights for just brief periods of time. The eye has an incredible dynamic range - 0.5lms can painfully bright when woken from sleep, yet 500lms on the beach can barely be seen. The difference is how long you allow your eyes to adapt..... and about 400 battery changes. "Luke.... use the night vision."

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Malkoff MD-based lights such as M61T, M61HOT and I assume M91T aren't real throwers. They have a pleasant, large hotspot that's not at all like the Maglite laser beam. Even 6-10 feet away the hotspot is kind of large.
    OTOH the Hound Dog has such a hot high-lux hotspot that if you attempt to read with it, it might drill a hole in your reading material.
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  14. #44

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by gurdygurds View Post
    Ahhhhhhh....I love reading Uncle Reppan's responses on low lumens. QUESTIONS!! What is your backup AAA light? AND.....do you think you'd be more of a Zebralight fan if the quoted runtime specs were closer to what you got in real life? I know you got your Quarks lined up in a row and should be good for the rest of your life but just curious.
    Hey gurdy.... glad to hear you found your Grail light. Preon Revo SS is my AAA back-up - it's got an efficient current regulated 1.2lm low that I like, hidden discos, and is easy to rig any size alkaline.....so good for preparedness.

    ZL exaggerates too much for my tastes, but my biggest disappointment with my last ZL was low output exaggeration (or sample variation?) - they had spec'd my ideal ~0.3 and 3 lumen outputs, but my sample tests 0.07 and 1.5 lms in my light box, and the tint is really green, so the light has been shelved. My first ZL is failing after light use (UI or switch, IDK) - only 2.5 modes left. The UI is good/clever, but backwards from what I prefer, and I've just had too many problems with electronic switch lights overall, so I just don't trust them. Overall though, I understand why folks love their lights... they are state of the art and very efficient - just not for me.

  15. #45

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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    15 lumens from my e1e is probably most used in all my lights.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    I don't know, sometimes I leave my 600Fw MK II on low all night, especially if I had been drinking, or have to get up before predawn.
    It gets used on high when I'm fully sunlight adjusted and looking into dark spaces, but otherwise it's mostly the low modes and M1 and M2 for tasks.
    It's been over a month of daily usage on the battery, say 10 to 20 uses most days.
    Light flashes twice on battery check today, so it's between 25-50%, I should swap it out this week, or maybe next week.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Carrying multiple batteries isn't that useful when you use low modes as a battery saving measure.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  18. #48

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Carrying multiple batteries isn't that useful when you use low modes as a battery saving measure.
    One can also carry a second smaller flashlight with a smaller battery to give you low modes so you don't have to worry about conserving the battery on your higher output lights.
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  19. #49

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    Because you are dealing with car stuff, you want max lumens thrown upon something to get the most accurate understanding what has gone wrong. This is the not the time or the place to economize lumens.
    Maybe our eyes are completely opposite, but there is no way my eyes can tolerate max lumens at that short of a distance and be able to make out what the heck I'm looking at. I replaced the starter motor and relay on my truck two weeks ago and used the low/medium modes of an old floody zebralight headlamp. Well under 50 lumens and pure flood.

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    Is that spot rusty or not? Is that wire broken or just seems that way? Is there a leak involved? (or just seems that way) Yeah, throwing 600 lumens upon it is just right.
    I can't imagine doing what you are describing and being able to accurately inspect what you are claiming to inspect. You aren't inspecting a broken wire from 20 feet away (even if you were, 20 feet would be way too short for 600 lumens for me) but, In those situations, you need to be close to the object you are inspecting and you are not going to want a throwy 600 lumen beam. More like a floody 25 lumens. To each their own though. Maybe our eyes just respond completely differently to that amount of light.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Kind of funny. Back in the old incandescent days, we all would have given anything and everything to have a low output mode. Now that we have it, people are complaining that a low mode is not useful.

    Personally, I have found low output modes, in general, to be more useful than max brightness mode, depending on the task at hand. A lot of times 15 to 60 lumens is enough to get the job done.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Kind of funny. Back in the old incandescent days, we all would have given anything and everything to have a low output mode. Now that we have it, people are complaining that a low mode is not useful.
    I read an interesting article the other day. It was originally theorized that adopting LED tech for street lamps and the like would reduce energy consumption. Instead, energy consumption has remained the same and light pollution has gotten worse, as when LEDs are installed they go for brighter rather than more efficient. Food for thought.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowGuy View Post
    I read an interesting article the other day. It was originally theorized that adopting LED tech for street lamps and the like would reduce energy consumption. Instead, energy consumption has remained the same and light pollution has gotten worse, as when LEDs are installed they go for brighter rather than more efficient. Food for thought.
    I've been thinking that same thing. Take a great 325 lumen light and make it 600+ with same runtime?
    Give the people what they want and all that.

    Rayovac and Energizer have brought out a bunch of lights with practical lumens and raised runtimes. If battery manufacturers are doing it, why aren't the others?
    John 3:16

  23. #53

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    I just keep the H600Fw clipped in my left pocket and a Spyderco Delica clipped in the right, switch to shorts and they go in the waist band instead.
    Sharpen, and change batteries periodically.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    light pollution is an interesting way to call lumens.

    Give me some light pollution.

    Give me lots of it.

    Besides, about this unquoted article,

    I_don't_believe_it.jpg

    I mean, who does so? Everyone? Everywhere? Some? I think it's impossible to describe the entire country as such. And make such a blanket statement.
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  25. #55
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    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    http://darksky.org/5-popular-myths-a...-streetlights/

    “Yes, LEDs are more energy-efficient, but that fact can ironically lead to
    more light as cities spend the money saved on reduced electricity use to buy more lighting. In most cases, especially in the United States, there is a tendency to use more of something, not less, when the price of producing and distributing a product goes down. In economics, it’s known as the Jevons Paradox.”

    This is also happening in developing countries gaining affluence. Smarter lighting means using only what is necessary where it is needed. This is as valid with portable illumination as it is with municipal streetlights.

    https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles...treet-lighting

  26. #56

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    there is a tendency to use more of something, not less, when the price of producing and distributing a product goes down. In economics, it’s known as the Jevons Paradox.”
    Thanks for that! I always knew this happened but didn't know there was a name for it. If my electricity cost was suddenly reduced 5 cents/kWh instead of 18, that hoss would be turned down to 66° on days like today!
    GOOD TINT!

  27. #57

    Default Re: Low modes are a battery-saving measure are not all that useful

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    light pollution is an interesting way to call lumens.

    Give me some light pollution.

    Give me lots of it.

    Besides, about this unquoted article,

    I_don't_believe_it.jpg

    I mean, who does so? Everyone? Everywhere? Some? I think it's impossible to describe the entire country as such. And make such a blanket statement.
    Sorry, I don't have the exact article saved since I read it over a month ago. Have a different article on the subject:

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...LED-bulbs-spd/

    It isn't that "everyone" is doing it, but it is a going theory to explain the data presented. More installations+greater output=accelerated growth of light pollution. Light pollution, especially in the blue wavelengths common among cheap LEDs, is detrimental to the environment and human health.

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