Anyone done Self Discharge tests on Eneloop Pros?

Just seeing if anyone has done any self discharge tests on Eneloop Pros or the newer Ikea Ladda Whites.

I bought some of the new Ikea Ladda White 2450mAh AAs when they were made available in Australia in 2016.

I also have used a 4 set of Eneloop Pros in the past but I've mislaid them in some equipment and can't find them atm.

In terms of stated capacity, I have no problems with the Ikea Ladda Whites. They have all charged up to at least 2400mAh (up to 2550mAh on my Maha C9000, on my Lacrosse BC700 at 500mA charge, the come up a bit higher at 2600mAh).

I use the Ikea Ladda Whites in my hiking Garmin GPS that I take for multiday hikes, and I've been happy with their performance. They perform like my lost Eneloop Pro set. I get more hours of battery life out of each pair of AAs than I previously did with standard 2000 mAh Eneloops or the Energiser 2300mAhs that I used to use regularly with that GPS.

Self Discharge Testing
The batteries from my packs were stamped with "1637" (The date format is different from Eneloops, but I guessed the first two digits were the year, and the second two is the weeks of the year - which made these September 2016, and I picked them up at the end of that month).

I set one pack of 4 AAs aside - discharged and charged them four times, and then left them for 6 months.

First Self Discharge Test After 6 months (March 2017) they showed:

• 1687
• 1624
• 1665
• 1117

Not sure what happened with the last one, but the other three show around 66% of their original capacities.

This is quite a bit more self discharge compared with Eneloop Pros which are meant to be 85% within 1 year.

I meant to leave them for 12 months to see what the self discharge would be, but messed up when they went into the charger about 8 months in and I forgot to record the results.

So I ran the same 6 month self discharge test again on that batch - I also ran through four discharge/charge sessions before fully charging and storing them for 6 months.

Second Self Discharge Test (June 2018)

• 1733
• 1767
• 1619
• 1286

Again that last one seems to be the worst of the batch - discharging higher than the other three, but the others are between 66-70% of their capacity after 6 months. This is still a greater self discharge than with the stated Eneloop Pros which is meant to be at 85% in 12 months.

So - has anyone done any self discharge tests on the Eneloop Pros? So that I can compare them with my Ikea Ladda whites?

Or have I done something wrong on my batches for testing?

I have two sets of 4 AAs for testing, and I've written identifiers on them so I don't mix them up (eg, 1-1, 1-2 etc for set number and cell number). I have charged them up again, and will leave them for 6 months and 12 months.

I don't do discharge tests.

When I went to ikea a while ago I picked up one of their 12 cell chargers that looks like a book and stores easy in a book shelf along with gobs of their aa and aaa ladda cells. Used in all the stuff around the house. So far the ladda by a long shot stay in electronics noticeably much longer before they need to be swapped out. I notice no difference between energizer 2300s and eneloop 2000s. Them ladda 2450 cells though, last way longer. Even the wife and kids who think all rechargeables are the same exact thing report they last way longer.

Im not too concerned about the numbers game. I just want cells that last long while in service. None of them sit long enough to worry about any kind of discharge. Max some of them might sit is 3 months and if there's a difference between off the charger and sat a few months, it's so little that no numbers matter in any way at all. As far as the energizer eneloop and ladda goes anyway.

Hi,

Sometimes we just like to know that we are getting what we think we are getting.
The higher capacity cells are more expensive than the regular cells, so i would want to see a higher reading on self discharge. If not, it would not make any sense to pay the extra money. So it's a money game too.

On the money game side, the ladda are cheaper than the energizer 2300s that are decent cells. They are about half the price of eneloops (2000mah) and the ladda are about half the price of the energizers. The ladda are out performing both of them by a long shot. Can't even compare the more expensive options to them when you put the money game into it. Even if they only get half the cycles of an eneloop you can buy twice as many and still be 1/3 total money spent less.

Choice is clear, go ladda around my place. When time comes to get more I will phase out the energizers and get more ladda.

Boris74 said:

On the money game side, the ladda are cheaper than the energizer 2300s that are decent cells. They are about half the price of eneloops (2000mah) and the ladda are about half the price of the energizers. The ladda are out performing both of them by a long shot [...]

Click to expand...

But the OP reports that the ladda have much worse self-discharge performance - which is the topic at hand. Do you have any data on that?

Gauss163 said:

But the OP reports that the ladda have much worse self-discharge performance - which is the topic at hand. Do you have any data on that?

Click to expand...

None. My data is purely useage data. The ladda 2450mah cells out perform in electronics use by a long shot. I'm not into storing nimh cells for long term. I use them. Eneloop 2000 and energizer 2300mah are great reliable cells but the ladda are so much better in use. One of my tv remotes has a pair of ladda aaa and it's been 7 weeks. Still going strong and we notice when the other cells are getting weak in it. The other brands last about half that in that remote.

Just pointing out you can discharge and charge several times then store them a long time. All of them. Tells everyone exactly nothing about actual in use performance. A ladda AA will run my S1A as long as a 14500 on the 220 and 60 lumen modes, and runs moonlight longer than a 750mah 14500.

Ive come to the conclusion discharge, capacity and storage discharge tests tell me exactly nothing how a cell will perform in real world use. That's just me. I'm not a hobby charge and store battery user. I use them till dead, charge and repeat. Ladda is the best I've used so far.

Different uses result in different reports. Don't use ladda if you're into storing them. If your using them in electronics till dead then charge and repeat, the ladda go longer between charges.

Boris74 said:

None. My data is purely useage data. The ladda 2450mah cells out perform in electronics use by a long shot. I'm not into storing nimh cells for long term. I use them [...]

Click to expand...

But LSD superiority impacts not only storage lifetime. It also greatly impacts lifetime in low current devices (e.g. remotes, alarms, wireless keyboards, multimeters, etc). Many of these devices will have multi-year life with a top-tier LSD cell, but much less life with HSD cells (e.g if the cell discharges in few months then that is an upper limit to the life).

Anecdotal evidence only goes so far. You need to do controlled tests to obtain accurate results. The superiority of LSD cells in low-drain devices has significant real-world impact - it is not purely marketing hype.

Thanks Boris. You might have not seen the bit in the first post as it is quite long, but I have stated that I no problems with the capacity/performance of the Ikea Ladda whites.

There are some other threads you can continue the discussion on Ikea Ladda capacities and performance like these:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...w-of-Ikea-Ladda-AA-2450mAh-(White)-703-038-76
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Test-Review-of-Ikea-Ladda-AAA-900mAh-(White)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...9-Ikea-New-rechargeable-batteries-and-charger

You can see even in some of those I posted about being excited about these Japanese made cells that likely come from the Fujitsu factory.

But I am after comparison on long term self discharge on if anyone else has done them for ENELOOP PROS. If not, I will go out and buy a four set and test them in comparison with my 8 AA ikea laddas I have for self discharge testing.

If Ikea Ladda whites are rebadged Eneloop Pros, I would have expected similar self discharge in comparison (85% in 12 months), but my sets are coming up with higher self discharge after 6 months 60-70% after 6 months). I have done this twice now in case the first was an abberation (hence it has taken over one year). If I buy a set of Eneloop Pros, I won't find out their self discharge for another year. This is why I am asking here now.

I have now over 6 sets of 4 Ikea Ladda White AAs. Two are set aside for self discharge testing, and the others I am using in field. It might be a problem with the test batch I have. My other sets are stamped "1642" so I suspect they were also 2016 42nd week (so October 2016). I can pick up a newer batch to test as well.

Also, I am discharging them after 6months using 500mA on the Maha C9000.

TLDR:

• I am happy with Ikea Ladda White performance and capacity
• But my Ikea Ladda White AAs seem to be self discharging at greater rate than Eneloop Pros.
  • Ladda - 66% capacity after 6 months
  • Eneloop Pros - advertised 85% after 12 months.
• OP looking for anyone who has done long term self discharge tests on Eneloop Pros

Boris74 said:

One of my tv remotes has a pair of ladda aaa and it's been 7 weeks. Still going strong and we notice when the other cells are getting weak in it. The other brands last about half that in that remote.

Click to expand...

What kind of TV remote eats through batteries in just weeks??? I use regular Eneloops in all my remotes, and at most I charge them twice a year, and that's just to make sure they're topped up. Most of them I only charge every couple of years.

One of the main advantages of Eneloops is that you can use them to replace alkalines in low-drain devices, so you don't have stuff ruined by leaks. For those uses, ideally you really need them to last for years between charges.

Gauss163 said:

But LSD superiority impacts not only storage lifetime. It also greatly limits lifetime in low current devices (e.g. remotes, alarms, wireless keyboards, multimeters, etc). Many of these devices will have multi-year life with a top-tier LSD cell, but much less life with HSD cells (e.g if the cell discharges in few months then that is an upper limit to the life).

Anecdotal evidence only goes so far. You need to do controlled tests to obtain accurate results. The superiority of LSD cells in low-drain devices has significant real-world impact - it is not purely marketing hype.

Click to expand...

+1

There's definitely a place for higher capacity NiMH cells that sacrifice some low-self-discharge. IMO, that's only for the most frequently used high-drain devices. Everything else benefits from very low self-discharge, because a light might sit on a shelf for months between uses. And, of course, remotes and clocks, etc.

What kind of TV remote eats through batteries in just weeks??? I use regular Eneloops in all my remotes, and at most I charge them twice a year, and that's just to make sure they're topped up. Most of them I only charge every couple of years.

One of the main advantages of Eneloops is that you can use them to replace alkalines in low-drain devices, so you don't have stuff ruined by leaks. For those uses, ideally you really need them to last for years between charges.

Click to expand...

the remote gets used a lot. Other brands get weak and unless you point it right at the sensor on the tv or are close other brands poop out faster. Still work, not as good. The ladda, I can point it at one of the walls away from the tv right now and it functions. They're still pumping out power and at this rate it'll be a long time until they go through a few cycles to get full potential.

So so ladda isn't good for charge and store. Ladda are the best I got for charge and use. Right now I wouldn't even compare 2000mah eneloops. Not even fair. They just don't last as long. I'm not doubting any charge and store then compare to others data, I'm not into that so it's inane to me or anyone else who is a battery user, not a hobbiest charger and test half a year later.

Mine discharge themselves like a boss. Every time I go to use my camera flash (Canon 430EX) they're about half dead. I'm glad these 4 are the only XX's I bought; I feel like the regular white Eneloops are the way to go.

markr6 said:

Mine discharge themselves like a boss. Every time I go to use my camera flash (Canon 430EX) they're about half dead. I'm glad these 4 are the only XX's I bought; I feel like the regular white Eneloops are the way to go.

Click to expand...

My problem has always been usage frequency. I just don't use my batteries as much, but for a Phillips type Pronto LCD remote from 2000, my Gateway RF wireless keyboard/mouse and a couple of other TV remotes that don't get used that much, so my stuff sits.

I'm running break-ins on all of my AA/AAAs right now, just to have something to do with them...and to get them ready for hurricane season.

I wish I could adopt a kid so he/she could play video games all day long.

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

My problem has always been usage frequency. I just don't use my batteries as much

Click to expand...

Same here. I have a drawer full of Eneloops sitting since I pretty much only use 18650 these days. Some in remotes and kids toys obviously, but those just get cheap alkalines and last forever.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

What kind of TV remote eats through batteries in just weeks??? I use regular Eneloops in all my remotes, and at most I charge them twice a year, and that's just to make sure they're topped up. Most of them I only charge every couple of years. [...]

Click to expand...

Agreed. Something is seriously wrong with the remote (or the batteries or the charger) if the life is only a few weeks. Regular (2000mAh) eneloops should last at least a year or two in typical usage, and they should outlast the Ikea Ladda Pros given their higher self-discharge rate (assuming the OP's results are typical).

It's sad to hear that the lower-priced Ikea Ladda Pros have such high self-discharge rates. It would be interesting to see any further tests on such to help confirm whether or not the OP's results are typical vs. a bad batch.

The remote uses aaa, not aa. White eneloops just don't cut it compared to the ladda. The wife and kids use the remote a lot. I don't. All I do is swap the cells when they tell me it's dead.

The AA Ladda last noticeably longer in the game controllers. If I get 60% of the charge cycles the eneloops will give me then I'm way ahead of the money game. At 1/3 the price per cell. I'd be stupid to ignore in use data. Storage discharge rates aren't a concern when they go from charged to being used till dead observations. Maybe someday I'll get into storing nimh cells long term. I don't see that happenening anytime soon. I got other hobbies to occupy my time.

Boris74 said:

The remote uses aaa, not aa. White eneloops just don't cut it compared to the ladda [...]

Click to expand...

The are a few possible explanations:

(1) The OP's Ikea Ladda AA's don't really have high self-discharge (e.g. OP got a bad batch).

(2) The AAA's don't have the same high self-discharge as the AA's reported by the OP.

(3) None of your devices are truly low-drain so their life is little degraded by the higher self-discharge reported by OP

To reason further, for (1) and (2) we need more self-discharge tests, and for (3) we need to know what lifetime you are getting with the Ladda Pros in your remote.

Gauss163 said:

we need to know what lifetime you are getting with the Ladda Pros in your remote.

Click to expand...

I think he said just a few weeks, which is ridiculously short for a TV remote even if it does get a lot of use. He said other brands in it are even worse. There's either something wrong with his remote, or whoever designed it needs to get a demotion in his/her job.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

I think he said just a few weeks, which is ridiculously short for a TV remote even if it does get a lot of use. He said other brands in it are even worse. There's either something wrong with his remote, or whoever designed it needs to get a demotion in his/her job.

Click to expand...

What about parasitic drain in any give device?

I have a 20 year old Marantz RC5000 (Phillips Pronto) LED learning remote with a monochromatic 2"x3" display and it uses a 4s AA arrangement (6v) and even banging on it hard, I get a good month from my standard NiMH type batteries.

Chris

WalkIntoTheLight said:

I think he said just a few weeks, which is ridiculously short for a TV remote even if it does get a lot of use. He said other brands in it are even worse. There's either something wrong with his remote, or whoever designed it needs to get a demotion in his/her job.

Click to expand...

The few weeks appears to be for "other brands" (cf. quote below). Not clear if that includes 2000mAh eneloops. In any case it seems like all of Boris's devices are high drain (including, strangely, his remotes), so his benefits likely stem merely from extra capacity and/or fresh cells. With higher drain devices it is difficult if not impossible to casually notice poor self-discharge performance since it has minimal impact - amounting to only a tiny fraction of the device's average discharge rate. For such anecdotal evidence to be useful for the OP they'd have be be for lower drain devices - those lasting at least 6 months or so on a single charge.

Boris74 said:

One of my tv remotes has a pair of ladda aaa and it's been 7 weeks. Still going strong and we notice when the other cells are getting weak in it. The other brands last about half that in that remote.

Click to expand...

WalkIntoTheLight said:

I think he said just a few weeks, which is ridiculously short for a TV remote even if it does get a lot of use. He said other brands in it are even worse. There's either something wrong with his remote, or whoever designed it needs to get a demotion in his/her job.

Click to expand...

no, the Ladda have been in 7 weeks with no change in performance from new. I said after a few weeks eneloop and energizer aaa Nimh are getting weak. As in aimed right at the sensor or real close to work. I can point the remote at the wall 180 from the tv right now with 7 week in the remote Ladda aaa cells and it works perfect. The weak cells are swapped when they need direct aiming. Not when they are completely dead.