Evolution of torches

My new EDC now is Malkoff M61 "HOT" and I am continuously impressed what a pocket rocket this little thing is. I added a more compact Z41 tailcap and roll with that now versus the clicky that came with it.

But Malkoff stuff is not why I am posting. I read the review of the original Surefire M6 and I was under the impression it was a lot brighter than it actually is. It only does 500 lumens with the brighter bulb and the runtime is a stunning 20 mins. Incidentally, the MD2 with M61HOT has a 30 minute runtime and 600 lumens, closely matching the M6 and even exceeding it somewhat but being a tiny fraction of the size and weight and operating cost.

Putting them side by side we can see just how profound the evolution is. the MD2 is so small I can almost wrap my fist around it hiding the entire light. Well, a bit sticks out but you get the point. And I don't have huge hands.

The Hound Dog Super shines like a car headlight in your hands. 10 years ago 1000 lumens was a huge deal. Now it's nothing special. You can buy plenty of cheap foreign lights that hit it for relatively cheap.

Interesting times we live in.

I do wonder where will be in 10 years.

The Surefire M6 with the MN21 Lamp Assembly with fresh cells is putting out significantly more than 500 lumens. This 500 lumen rating is severely underrating, as is the case with most Surefire Incandescent lights.

It's beam with the Millennium Turbo head is extremely intense and far throwing. It's quality and intensity will make the M61 HOT look completely lackluster. Not to mention it's light is being displayed at 100CRI and Full Spectrum.

Yes, LED's have come a long ways, but I'm sure there is a not single person on this forum who doesn't know/understand this.

;-)

Well, I would say you are both right. ;-)

As far as having a thousand lumens in a small package goes, I luv my TnC MicroLux Dragon mokume gane 10440 model. Of course, in an AAA size light it heats up pretty quick on turbo mode, but the mokume gane, having lots of copper in it, conducts and dissipates heat pretty well.

Heres a photo. The light on the left is their CR2 size Extreme Micro.

http://imgbox.com/WnOF7z41

DayofReckoning said:

The Surefire M6 with the MN21 Lamp Assembly with fresh cells is putting out significantly more than 500 lumens. This 500 lumen rating is severely underrating, as is the case with most Surefire Incandescent lights.

It's beam with the Millennium Turbo head is extremely intense and far throwing. It's quality and intensity will make the M61 HOT look completely lackluster. Not to mention it's light is being displayed at 100CRI and Full Spectrum.

Yes, LED's have come a long ways, but I'm sure there is a not single person on this forum who doesn't know/understand this.

Click to expand...

I am going to quote this from this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Light-That-Can-Compete-W-The-Surefire-M6-HOLA

richardcpf said:

Whats the point of having a bulky 500+ lumens flashlight that only gives you 20 minutes of runtime?

P7 and MC-E lights may not be as bright/throwy as the M6 but they are way more practical. In real life use, 20 minutes is like nothing.

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And /quote/ "the MN21 puts out about 600-650 torch lumens out the front on new batteries."

... which still puts in the M61HOT territory - now the comparison is not entirely fair since M6 is a full size thrower and M61HOT is a compact that isn't - not really despite the name. Thus MN21 appears brighter because of the huge bezel but lumens wise they are still very equal since M61HOT is between 600-650 lumens - and is able to maintain it far longer, well 10 minutes longer is 50% longer than MN21.
And it takes 2x123 cells to feed M61HOT versus 3 times as much to feed M6.

I tried to find an equivalent comparison between the older M6 and the latest-greatest. If I find the best latest-greatest, it will destroy the M6.
e.g. Hound Dog versus M6, or Hound Dog Super versus M6, not a valid or fair comparison because it's so one-sided. Or even a modern Surefire versus M6. Even the latest incarnation of Fury/etc walks all over it. Hence the title of that thread.

Having said that, I would love to own an M6 -- but never actually use it -- more like a museum, antique piece. Kinda for the same reason why people collect antique cars.

etc said:

Incidentally, the MD2 with M61HOT has a 30 minute runtime and 600 lumens, closely matching the M6 and even exceeding it somewhat but being a tiny fraction of the size and weight and operating cost.

Click to expand...

Not really sure where you are getting this information? According to INFRNL's run time specs, the M61HOT will run at full output for about an hour and a half on one 18650. It is clearly superior to the light bulb in every measurable category except CRI. You can't have everything, but it does well for most things.

Edit: The use of 123's is not recommended in the M61HOT.

DayofReckoning said:

This 500 lumen rating is severely underrating, as is the case with most Surefire Incandescent lights.

Click to expand...

Small differences (+/-100lm in this category) don't amount to much. You are correct about the light quality, but it comes at the expense of portability, economy, and form factor. I'd recommend exploring high CRI LED's. It's become a habit for me.

Cheers

Modernflame said:

Not really sure where you are getting this information? According to INFRNL's run time specs, the M61HOT will run at full output for about an hour and a half on one 18650. It is clearly superior to the light bulb in every measurable category except CRI. You can't have everything, but it does well for most things.

Edit: The use of 123's is not recommended in the M61HOT.

Click to expand...

*sigh*
From the same place you are, from here. I was specifically comparing M6 on primaries versus M61HOT on primaries to make the comparison as meaningful as possible. And I made it clear I was talking about primaries. If you include 18650 in the equation, it becomes apples to oranges, not to mention HOT walks all over M6. Of course 18650 will generate better runtime, I was trying to tilt the equation towards M6 to give it every chance to shine.
HOT runs at full output, about 600 lumens for 30 minutes and then walks off the cliff towards 100 lumens for another 40 minutes. So you have a 70 minute - or somewhat longer runtime. So even on primaries it kicks **. I have not had an M6 and am not familiar with its behavior. If it cuts off completely at the 20 minute mark on the MN21 bulb. Or goes into the cigarette glow mode, or in between.

The point of the primaries was, even on primaries, HOT is nothing to sneeze at.


https://imgur.com/VtowMoN

The CRI stuff comes at a lumens penalty. Possibly solves a problem that does not exit.

Modernflame said:

Small differences (+/-100lm in this category) don't amount to much. You are correct about the light quality, but it comes at the expense of portability, economy, and form factor. I'd recommend exploring high CRI LED's. It's become a habit for me.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Really, there is a 150 lumen or so difference between M61T and M61HOT and I can easily recognize it. I can see the difference down to about 50 lumens.

etc said:

Really, there is a 150 lumen or so difference between M61T and M61HOT and I can easily recognize it. I can see the difference down to about 50 lumens.

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A 50 lumen difference at 500+ lumens, is 10% which is very hard to detect on lights with exactly the same beam pattern and spectrum. Change either of those and it is impossible.

ssanasisredna said:

A 50 lumen difference at 500+ lumens, is 10% which is very hard to detect on lights with exactly the same beam pattern and spectrum. Change either of those and it is impossible.

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I have two Hound Dogs, one neutral and one regular. There is a tint difference but there is also a lumen difference. I can see the 10% difference between the two. The regular is brighter. The difference is something like 1150 lumens versus 1050 lumens. Or something to that effect plus/minus.

etc said:

I have two Hound Dogs, one neutral and one regular. There is a tint difference but there is also a lumen difference. I can see the 10% difference between the two. The regular is brighter. The difference is something like 1150 lumens versus 1050 lumens. Or something to that effect plus/minus.

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The LEDs are +/-5%, the electronics probably +/- 3%. Hound-Dog light output changes with battery level. The 1150 vs. 1050 is the average of production. Your lights may not be almost the same or more than 10% different.

At the same lux, the regular is going to seem brighter due to the high CCT. Your brain will tell you that it is brighter. Your eye/brain is not a measurement device.