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Thread: Looking for a replacement for AW ICR123a (16340) cells for my old mod.

  1. #1

    Default Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Greetings,


    Let me get this out of the way, I don't think it's an issue but I'm not a flashlight guy, I'm looking for replacement batteries for an ecig model that used a specific cell that others normally don't. I'm hoping you can still provide me some reasonable assistance in determining the appropriate replacements.

    I have an older GLV-2 Mini, it uses 123 sized batteries. This is not the norm for ecigs.

    For the last five years, I've been using AW ICR123a 750 mAH 3.7V batteries. My current set is finally dying, and it's time for new ones and.. well, I learned here the factory is wrecked so I'm kinda lost.

    Last time I needed them, I got so lost in the weeds and just bought the exact same batteries. Obviously, this isn't an option. I'm absolutely confused by the sheer mass of options available (chemistry, protection, mAh values, etc), is a ICR123 a RCR123 a 16340, etc etc etc. It's maddening!

    I just need a reasonable replacement for the AW ICR123a 750mAH 3.7v battery so I don't need to worry about it blowing up in my face (or pocket, or charger I own).

    I've got no real preferences beyond that, "safety first" is really about it.

    I know that 16350s are specifically not going to work in this unit, it was a thing people talked about at the time I bought it.

    So, if you guys could be of some help on this subject, that would be grand.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...W-ICR123-16340

    RCR and 16340 are basically the same. According to someone who measured the cell you are searching for, the dimensions are 16.6mm x 34.3mm
    https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteri...k%29%20UK.html

    You likely don't want anything much bigger, but a little smaller would work fine. Instead of looking for 16350 look for 16340. I have some Olight RCR16340 and they don't source current as well as I would like when they are cold, but that is not likely a problem for your application. The one I got is dfferent than the one suggested in the first post I made.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Thank you, I did some searching and was pretty sure that my dirty hipster habit need was still within TOS, but was worried.

    I won't lie, I had a real difficult time trying to determine if RCR and ICR were interchangable, backed with the fact that the a lot of places you look have the disclaimer that their batteries are not for ecig use; I've been trying to decide if that was just legal wording or an actual issue with the way those devices use the cells.

    My other issue is not quite understanding the role of mAH in these scenarios. As a electronics functional idiot, I thought it was the amount of power held, so I wasn't sure if switching from the current 750mAH rated cells to lower was going to just effect how long between charges or might potentially effect the way in which they worked, ie raised the chances for a catastrophic failure.

    I've got no issue spending more if I have to. I run these things pretty long and pretty hard, I've gotten probably nearly 3 years out of two batteries twice now, a couple extra bucks doesn't hurt.

    I didn't look at the Olights, I was previously looking at Efest IMR 16340s, but there's a lot of talk about lengths sometimes being subtly different that threw me off.

    Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to give this another day or so others' feedback before I make the jump.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbslider View Post
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...W-ICR123-16340

    RCR and 16340 are basically the same.
    No. No no no. They are certainly not basically the same in anything but volume. The commercial convention, not standardized, is that RCR and 16340 are vastly different chemistries. Treating them the same is only asking for vastly reduced cell life at best, and big trouble at worst.

    Vapes and vapers like to push the amp draw to risky levels. RCR is absolutely inappropriate for large amps. The only RCR that were ever appropriate for big amps were the now impossible to find AW blue RCR cells. Generally, 16340 today means IMR or the Li- manganese chem. The other kind of 16340 is ICR or Li- cobalt chem. With the ICR, you want protected cells, always. With IMR, protection is unnecessary, and I have never seen them offered with a protection circuit. Between the two popular chems of 16340, the IMR chem is far more appropriate for higher amp application. RCR is as often as not these days, LFE or LiFePO4 chem, ostensibly reported as "safer," but even so, there is catastrophic failure of these cells when abused, even if they are more tolerant of abuse for lower energy density and capacity. The problem is RCR vendors for some unknown reason like to veil just what the underlying chemistry actually is... not always obvious. Do not use RCR in high amp application, such as vaping or incan lighting.

    That said, AW is hard to match, and I am missing the availability their red IMR cells. I was pleased to find the new high-capacity hybrid IMRish 18350 cells from KeepPower, the 1200mAh UH1835P black cells, as a happy high amp replacement for AW IMR16340 cells, although depending on your battery tube, this may not work for you. But it suggests to me, at least, if KeepPower also manufactures IMR16340 cells, then these would be a satisfactory substitute for the excellent hi amp red AW IMR16340 cells of legend. I wouldn't use ICR cells if you paid me, in any application. IMO, IMR chemistry makes ICR chemistry irrelevant, and a less safe choice, protection circuit or not.

    edit: a quick search shows KeepPower only makes 16340 cells in Li-cobalt chemistry, and though these cells test well, I would rather direct the OP towards IMR chemistry over protected ICR chemistry, for the higher amp specification. That appears to leave Efest IMR16340 cells as the best option. Though Efest is new to the space, these cells in two variety seem to test well, look for HKJ's tests of these Efest IMR cells, and consider IMR chem for high amp application over ICR chem (though I admit, this is a judgement call).
    Last edited by night.hoodie; 06-19-2018 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Quote Originally Posted by night.hoodie View Post
    Vapes and vapers like to push the amp draw to risky levels.
    (deletion)
    although depending on your battery tube, this may not work for you. But it suggests to me, at least, if KeepPower also manufactures IMR16340 cells, then these would be a satisfactory substitute for the excellent hi amp red AW IMR16340 cells of legend.
    My AW cells I used were the black ones with the silver sticker.

    I don't use a fancy new mod with all sorts of configurable options, the GLV-2 Super Mini was one of the original styles they came out back in the start of this, not a variable voltage model like everyone makes now with the subohm coils.

    It was designed for the 3.7v battery, and I've always used 1.8 ohm or 2 ohm coils.

    So, for safety's sake I want an ICR or IMR cell? If ICR, then protected is a must, if IMR then protection is unneeded?



    I'm using a Trustfire TR-001 charger, which I see now seems to have bad reviews (I've never really paid attention to this), which is for Li-Ion batteries. Will that work for IMR, as well?

    I'm not going to lie, I'd jsut as soon be willing to buy a new (cheapish) charger and a pair of batteries if I knew I could find some that would work in this without fear. I've tossed around the idea of buying a new mod for the last two years, but nothing is as small, convienent, or has as quality feel in hand as my old GLV.

    Seriously, who'd have thought batteries, batteries!, could be this confusing.

    At least my flashlight uses AAAs.

    (also, I understand the neccessary evil of requiring mod approval for new posters, but man what a PITA for threaded conversations)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    post script (sorry, I can't edit my post til it's approved): There is a Keeppower 16340 (link) available, that would be preferable to the Olight 16340 previous suggested or the Efest 16340 (link)?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    I stand corrected, thanks.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Take a look at AWT of Windyfire in 16340. See HKJ's comparator to see how they stack up to the 2016 AW IMR 16340.
    http://lygte-info.dk/review/batterie...comparator.php
    Click Here to view my lights

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Quote Originally Posted by smartham View Post
    post script (sorry, I can't edit my post til it's approved): There is a Keeppower 16340 (link) available, that would be preferable to the Olight 16340 previous suggested or the Efest 16340 (link)?
    Where do you live?

    What voltage does your device require? What amps are you pulling?

    How 'bout a 16650 4.35v Sanyo UR16650ZTA?

    You'll have more capacity at 3.8v nominal, if the vape will handle that voltage. You can try the Efest, or Olights, which are probably better than nothing. If you're not really into the batteries, I won't recommend two AWT naked IMR 16340s, since you'd have to be really careful monitoring their conditions, which frankly, I don't think I'd want to mess with it unless absolutely necessary.

    Anyhow...

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    What voltage does your device require? What amps are you pulling?
    IIRC, it's a 3.2v device. When I apply a multimeter and engage it, it comes back with 3.92v, so maybe I'm not doing that right. I don't think my cheapie meter is measuring amps right, but using a website with a calculator, near as I can tell it's 2.2 amps but I don't claim that's correct.

    Again, sorry, we're dealing with a mod from circa 2011 or so. There's no documentation out there, anymore, not that there ever was (these were handbuilt one at a time in a guy's garage).

    since you'd have to be really careful monitoring their conditions, which frankly, I don't think I'd want to mess with it unless absolutely necessary.
    Without trying to be flippant, that's a lot of work. I'm not looking to push the bleeding edge, I just like my humble old toy to work. I'll skip anything advanced and keep it simple. If that means protected ICR, great, and if I can skip that and just use an IMR, that's great too.

    So, my current takeaway here is:
    An ICR123a is a 16340.
    Do not use RCR cells.
    Protected ICR or unprotected IMR, doesn't matter but IMR is preferred.
    Efest 16340 - This is IMR, and is listed as 700mAh.
    Windyfire 16340 - This is IMR, but listed as 600mAh. edit: Oh, are these not available in the USA?
    Keeppower 16340 - This is ICR only, hence I should defer to the Efest.
    Windyfire 16340 - This is IMR, also, but not as good as the 700mAh Efest.

    Based on what I understand, the Efest is better coz more mAh, but when I look at the graphs (I'm using the 2A draw lines), I'm confused. The Efest's have more voltage, but deplete quicker (by an order of .1 Ah, whatever the hell that means).

    So...do I want higher voltage or longer run time? Does voltage not really matter here because there's some sort of circuit inside that'll boost to the power to the optimum output for the vaporizer to work?

    Edit: This may not matter, it looks like the Windyfire's aren't available from an American vendor, only European and I'm not spending $40 for 4 batteries.

    Will an IMR battery charge in my current charger that I've been using with ICR cells?

    Also, seriously, thank you all very much.
    Last edited by smartham; 06-20-2018 at 12:37 PM.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Quote Originally Posted by smartham View Post
    IIRC, it's a 3.2v device. When I apply a multimeter and engage it, it comes back with 3.92v, so maybe I'm not doing that right. I don't think my cheapie meter is measuring amps right, but using a website with a calculator, near as I can tell it's 2.2 amps but I don't claim that's correct.

    Again, sorry, we're dealing with a mod from circa 2011 or so. There's no documentation out there, anymore, not that there ever was (these were handbuilt one at a time in a guy's garage).



    Without trying to be flippant, that's a lot of work. I'm not looking to push the bleeding edge, I just like my humble old toy to work. I'll skip anything advanced and keep it simple. If that means protected ICR, great, and if I can skip that and just use an IMR, that's great too.

    So, my current takeaway here is:
    An ICR123a is a 16340.
    Do not use RCR cells.
    Protected ICR or unprotected IMR, doesn't matter but IMR is preferred.
    Efest 16340 - This is IMR, and is listed as 700mAh.
    Windyfire 16340 - This is IMR, but listed as 600mAh. edit: Oh, are these not available in the USA?
    Keeppower 16340 - This is ICR only, hence I should defer to the Efest.
    Windyfire 16340 - This is IMR, also, but not as good as the 700mAh Efest.

    Based on what I understand, the Efest is better coz more mAh, but when I look at the graphs (I'm using the 2A draw lines), I'm confused. The Efest's have more voltage, but deplete quicker (by an order of .1 Ah, whatever the hell that means).

    So...do I want higher voltage or longer run time? Does voltage not really matter here because there's some sort of circuit inside that'll boost to the power to the optimum output for the vaporizer to work?

    Edit: This may not matter, it looks like the Windyfire's aren't available from an American vendor, only European and I'm not spending $40 for 4 batteries.

    Will an IMR battery charge in my current charger that I've been using with ICR cells?

    Also, seriously, thank you all very much.
    Let's back up here for a moment, since I'm not a vaper.

    I thought you were running two 16340s in series, so that was my confusion in suggesting the 16650.

    If you were using AW ICR 750s (and I have two here), you're using 3.6v/3.7v (nominal) li-cobalt cells which will hit ~4.2v, hot off the charger.

    RCR123s are 3.2v (some marked 3.0v) and come hot off the charger at 3.6ish volts.

    If your Ecig uses a single 16340, just get the high drain AWT 16340, if your device draws more than 2.5A, as they'll last longer in the long run. The capacities are lower than some of the others, but they deliver more current, which might make up for it.

    It is a naked cell and doesn't have the PCB protection circuit, but you're using only one in the device, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    Here you go:

    https://www.imrbatteries.com/16340-batteries/

    They're cheap enough to be able to afford a few for spares.

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisGarrett; 06-20-2018 at 05:25 PM.
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    Quote Originally Posted by smartham View Post
    .... So, my current takeaway here is ....
    There are several errors in that list above

    Battery terminology has been inconsistent and confusing for quite some time now, partly because the precise naming standards are often not followed appropriately and partly because there have long been "issues" with accurate (or not so much) labelling of these particular items.

    However, it is important to understand exactly what cells are appropriate for any given situation, since these can pack a lot of stored energy.

    I wonder if this thread might be better moved to the "Vape Lounge" subforum, as your request is really quite specific to a particular device ?

    OP, please let me know if you would like that done.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  13. #13

    Default Re: Replacement for AW ICR123a... help!

    I wonder if this thread might be better moved to the "Vape Lounge" subforum, as your request is really quite specific to a particular device ?

    OP, please let me know if you would like that done.
    I honestly didn't realize there was one, sorry! Nor did I look for it, to be honest, I just assumed we hid ourselves among you and sought out information pretending to be flashlight nerds.

    Rather than make more effort for you, I can find my way over and repost with what I know. Again, the knowledge I got here has been fascinating, although I have to admit a certain "meltdown in my pocket" fear is back.

  14. #14

    Default Looking for a replacement for AW ICR123a (16340) cells for my old mod.

    I've had a pretty good thread going in the battery forum, but was recommended I try over here.

    I've had a GLV-2 Super Mini for probably around 7 years now. This is a relic, but it's my relic and I see no need to replace it. It's a 3.7v device with that takes LR coils (I use either 1.8 or 2 ohm units) and a single 16340 cell.

    When I bought it, it came with AW "black" 16340s. When I replaced the batteries last time, I bought like-for-like but I've discovered that the AW is currently no more, so I'm trying to find a safe replacement.

    I have no idea what, if any, electronic protection is built into this thing, or if the spring is designed to melt away in case of a short circuit. There's no documentation, and while GLV as a company still exists, the guy no longer hand-builds these things, he just sells supplies now.

    It seems that protected ICR is now no longer the "good" choice, and that unprotected IMR is where it's at.

    So, I guess I'm looking for an unprotected IMR 16340?

    Some of the suggestions I've had here are Efest IMR, Windyfire IMR, or Keeppower ICR.

    If anyone has a direction they'd like to suggest, I'm all ears.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Looking for a replacement for AW ICR123a (16340) cells for my old mod.

    It's no trouble, but we'd rather not clutter CPF with duplicate threads
    ... is the archimedes peak

  16. #16
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a replacement for AW ICR123a (16340) cells for my old mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartham View Post

    It seems that protected ICR is now no longer the "good" choice, and that unprotected IMR is where it's at.

    So, I guess I'm looking for an unprotected IMR 16340?

    Some of the suggestions I've had here are Efest IMR, Windyfire IMR, or Keeppower ICR.

    If anyone has a direction they'd like to suggest, I'm all ears.
    You've been using your E-Cig for awhile now and you haven't burned off your face, so let's just assume that the devices is safe for now.

    So we need to look at 16340 cells. Let's assume that your device has no protection built in, but it still runs soundly and you haven't had any issues with AW ICR 16340s.

    You can go with a higher drain IMR chemistry, like the AWT IMR 16340s that I linked, which are naked and have no external PCB/protection circuit, built in, but have a higher thermal runaway point than the ICR (lithium-cobalt) chemistry. You'll get slightly lower runtimes, but you might get a better vape since they can handle higher currents than ICR types.

    Or you can find something like the Keeppower protected ICRs and just run them. Here they are:

    https://www.illumn.com/batteries-cha...utton-top.html

    This really doesn't have to be so hard and you're not investing a lot of scratch, perhaps buying one, or two, of each and seeing what you see.

    I'm off the Efest bandwagon, as they don't make cells and they're all over the map with cells they do use. Keeppower doesn't make cells either, but they're a big industrial distributor and they know what they're doing.

    Personally, I'd buy a couple of AWTs and a couple of the KP ICRs and check it out. That's about $20 before shipping.

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisGarrett; 06-21-2018 at 11:22 PM.
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

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