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Thread: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

  1. #1

    Default Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I know this isnt about batteries for flashlights, but I figured it was close enough and this forum is frequently mentioned as the go-to place for battery knowledge.

    I have some digital cameras that are about 12 years old and they still have their original lithium ion rechargeable batteries. I like these cameras alot and even though I havent used them in atleast a few years, I plan on using them now and for the next atleast 5 years or so. I'm just concerned about the 12 year old batteries health, and also of the ability to find new replacement batteries for these old digital cameras. If the batteries have lost most of their performance and new replacement batteries are impossible or very hard to find, then its probably time to say goodbye to these cameras. I guess the primary reason I made this post is to determine if these cameras are still worth keeping due to the health of their batteries and the possible difficulty of finding new replacement batteries. If I didnt like the cameras so much then this probably wouldnt be debatable for me and I would probably just get rid of them now. The cameras I'm sure will last for many more years, but the batteries I'm not so sure of, even if they seem to be ok now, I would guess that they are on borrowed time now.

    Based on what I have read about lithium ion rechargeable batteries, most websites claim lithium ion batteries will only last a few years, maybe 5-7 if your lucky, and 10 is really pushing it. Apparently there are many factors that go into how long they will last like how many cycles they have been through, the temperature they are stored at, and a few other factors. In general though it seems like the opinion is that up to 5 years is what to expect when they are frequently used and not taken care of very well, possibly up to 7 or 8 if they are frequently used but well taken care of, and if you can get 10 years out of a lithium ion battery then you are very lucky but by that time the battery has likely lost a significant amount of its performance.

    The lithium ion batteries I have in my cameras are all about 12 years old, all of them charge up just fine and immediately upon coming off the chargers they all show a strong voltage, and they are all showing a high load test performance with a battery load tester. Right after this I put 1 of the batteries in 1 of the cameras and started taking pictures one after another with brief pauses every 50 pictures or so to make sure nothing overheated. The camera was setup to use a moderate load on the battery like setting everything on auto, keeping the screen on the whole time, and using the flash in every picture, but I didn't use the zoom and didnt change any settings while taking the pictures. So I didnt put the heaviest load on the battery, but I didnt put the lightest load on it either. The sticker on the front of the camera rated the battery at 390 shots when new, and that probably took into account average use along with extended periods of time that the user will have the screen on but not taking any pictures, which I didnt do.

    So to summarize, I charged the battery, immediately put it in the camera, set the camera on full auto, kept the screen on the whole time, used flash in every picture, and started taking pictures 1 after another with brief pauses every 50 pictures or so to make sure nothing overheated. When the camera finally displayed the low battery icon and shut itself off, it was up to 765 pictures.

    It seems that the general consensus is that a lithium ion battery that is 12 years old should either be dead or close to it. I know that the performance right off the charger is only 1 indication of a batteries health, and another indicator is its self-discharge rate (which I havent tested fully yet), but am I just very lucky to get that good of performance from a 12 year old lithium ion battery right off the charger? Should I hold the celebration before I know what the batteries self-discharge rate is? Should I assume that the battery is probably on borrowed time? What am I missing here? Whats your opinion about my experience?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    I know this isnt about batteries for flashlights, but I figured it was close enough and this forum is frequently mentioned as the go-to place for battery knowledge.

    I have some digital cameras that are about 12 years old and they still have their original lithium ion rechargeable batteries. I like these cameras alot and even though I havent used them in atleast a few years, I plan on using them now and for the next atleast 5 years or so. I'm just concerned about the 12 year old batteries health, and also of the ability to find new replacement batteries for these old digital cameras. If the batteries have lost most of their performance and new replacement batteries are impossible or very hard to find, then its probably time to say goodbye to these cameras. I guess the primary reason I made this post is to determine if these cameras are still worth keeping due to the health of their batteries and the possible difficulty of finding new replacement batteries. If I didnt like the cameras so much then this probably wouldnt be debatable for me and I would probably just get rid of them now. The cameras I'm sure will last for many more years, but the batteries I'm not so sure of, even if they seem to be ok now, I would guess that they are on borrowed time now.

    Based on what I have read about lithium ion rechargeable batteries, most websites claim lithium ion batteries will only last a few years, maybe 5-7 if your lucky, and 10 is really pushing it. Apparently there are many factors that go into how long they will last like how many cycles they have been through, the temperature they are stored at, and a few other factors. In general though it seems like the opinion is that up to 5 years is what to expect when they are frequently used and not taken care of very well, possibly up to 7 or 8 if they are frequently used but well taken care of, and if you can get 10 years out of a lithium ion battery then you are very lucky but by that time the battery has likely lost a significant amount of its performance.

    The lithium ion batteries I have in my cameras are all about 12 years old, all of them charge up just fine and immediately upon coming off the chargers they all show a strong voltage, and they are all showing a high load test performance with a battery load tester. Right after this I put 1 of the batteries in 1 of the cameras and started taking pictures one after another with brief pauses every 50 pictures or so to make sure nothing overheated. The camera was setup to use a moderate load on the battery like setting everything on auto, keeping the screen on the whole time, and using the flash in every picture, but I didn't use the zoom and didnt change any settings while taking the pictures. So I didnt put the heaviest load on the battery, but I didnt put the lightest load on it either. The sticker on the front of the camera rated the battery at 390 shots when new, and that probably took into account average use along with extended periods of time that the user will have the screen on but not taking any pictures, which I didnt do.

    So to summarize, I charged the battery, immediately put it in the camera, set the camera on full auto, kept the screen on the whole time, used flash in every picture, and started taking pictures 1 after another with brief pauses every 50 pictures or so to make sure nothing overheated. When the camera finally displayed the low battery icon and shut itself off, it was up to 765 pictures.

    It seems that the general consensus is that a lithium ion battery that is 12 years old should either be dead or close to it. I know that the performance right off the charger is only 1 indication of a batteries health, and another indicator is its self-discharge rate (which I havent tested fully yet), but am I just very lucky to get that good of performance from a 12 year old lithium ion battery right off the charger? Should I hold the celebration before I know what the batteries self-discharge rate is? Should I assume that the battery is probably on borrowed time? What am I missing here? Whats your opinion about my experience?
    If the batteries are stored in a somewhat low state of charge and are only cycled infrequently, then they can last a long time. Temperature is a factor, but state of charge for storage is a huge factor and number of cycles. Generally we don't cycle camera batteries that much unless we are pros and the natural usage of cameras is to run the batteries down some and then put the camera away.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I don't think it's unusual for 12 year old batteries to still be good. As long as they were quality cells to begin with, which most original batteries have, then they only deteriorate gradually. They can still run your camera, though if you had new ones, you'd probably notice the old ones don't last as long.

    High temperature and very high or low charge levels are what hurts lithium-ion batteries the most. If you want your batteries to last a few more years, keep them in a cool, dry area, and at about 50% charge level. Top them up every few months to make sure they don't self-discharge below about 20%.

    I'm in the same situation as you. I have an 8-year old dSLR, but the battery is getting old. Still works fine, but a replacement is difficult to find. I've never done anything special to preserve the battery, except to try to not keep it fully charged all the time.

    It's annoying that manufacturers use proprietary batteries. They're designing their products to be thrown away, even if they cost $1000.

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    Flashaholic* mattheww50's Avatar
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    The life expectancy of Li-Ion is tied to both the storage voltage and how deeply they are discharged. I have a Digital Camera (Fujifilm V10) that I still use a good deal. While it is only 5mp, it is quite small, and for most of what I do is more than adequate. The original battery reached the point where capacity (number of photos it could take) had become a problem. What has become a much larger problem for it is that none (and I have probably bought half a dozen of them from different vendors) of the 3rd party batteries for it actually will fit it, so I was forced to obtain original batteries, and those have become both rare and expensive at this point. I have other camera where this is not a problem, but for this particular camera, it really is an intractable issue. I have examined the 3rd party cells very carefully, and one of the contacts is in fact in the wrong position by a few mm, which is why they don't work. The secondary problem is that many of the supposedly genuine Fujifilm batteries turn out to be 'fake', they have the same problem as all of the 3rd party batteries. They just don't work in the camera because of the fit problem.
    Last edited by mattheww50; 06-23-2018 at 06:23 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Thanks for the information so far. The battery seems to have no problem powering the camera for a long time when its used right off the charger. I assume that the only other thing to test to verify if the battery is still good or not is to test its self-discharge and see if it can hold onto its charge for a reasonable amount of time when left unused. So what I'm currently doing is trying a self-discharge test to see how long it can store an acceptable charge. I've determined that off the charger voltage of the battery is about 4.15v, and the voltage that the camera will no longer operate at is about 3.55v. I wouldnt be surprised if the initial voltage off the charger of 4.15v will probably drop to close to 4.0v or maybe even a little under fairly quickly from the battery sort of settling in after being charged, but then the self-disharge from 4.0v+ will probably be alot slower. I've decided to test it over a month and keep track of the self-discharge every week. If it seems to settle in at around 4.0v within the first few days after being charged, and then only slowly drops to maybe mid 3.9's by the end of the month then I would take that as the battery is still plenty healthy to use. I figure that if after 1 month of storage the self-discharge of the battery has been low enough that the battery still has atleast 75% of its charge left, then that battery is still plenty usable for me.
    Last edited by konsole; 06-23-2018 at 01:22 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    In the first 24 hours the batteries lost about 1% of their total charge (4.15v down to about 4.10v). Battery University says lithium ion normally loses about 5% in the first 24 hours, and then about 2% per month after that. I'm guessing they arent going by the percentage drop of the total voltage but instead the percentage drop of the usable voltage. The usable voltage range of these batteries is 3.55v when dead and 4.15v when fully charged, which is a total usable range of 0.6v. If they drop .05v in the first 24 hours and the total usable range is 0.6v, then thats a loss of 8.3% of their usable voltage in the first 24 hours. 8.3% isnt too far off from their claims of 5% and considering these are quite old then it makes sense that it would like a little higher, but so far its a good sign that the batteries are still plenty usable. The actual average voltage drop in the first 24 hours was 0.036v (loss of 8.3% of usable voltage), in hours 24-48 it was only 0.007v (loss of 1.2% of usable voltage), and so far in hours 48-72 I'm not seeing any voltage drop. 8.3% in 1st day, 1.2% in 2nd day, and 0% in 3rd day. Its looking likely that the end result will be 8.3% in 1st day, and then 1-2% per month after that, which is about in-line with the self-discharge rate of healthy lithium ion batteries.

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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    In the first 24 hours the batteries lost about 1% of their total charge (4.15v down to about 4.10v).
    The SOC difference between resting voltages 4.15 and 4.10 is typically between 3-5%, not 1%.

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    Battery University says lithium ion normally loses about 5% in the first 24 hours, and then about 2% per month after that.
    Battery "University" is not a reliable source for accurate information on battery science. In this case in order to obtain useful numbers one needs to know much more contextual information, e.g. chemistry, temperature, health, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    I'm guessing they arent going by the percentage drop of the total voltage but instead the percentage drop of the usable voltage.
    Capacity (or SOC = State Of Charge) is not generally a linear function of (resting) voltage (though it may be close to linear in small ranges). So generally the percent change in (usable) voltage is not (linearly) related to the percent change in capacity

    In order to deduce info about the health of your cells you need to track it over time, so that you can see how much degradation occurred. Lacking any prior info means that you cannot deduce much. But at this point all that matters is whether the battery still provides convenient life in your device - which you seem to have already answered affirmatively.

    It is not unusual for well-treated Li-ion cells to have usable life after 10 years. Nor it is unusual for abused cells to have little life left after a year.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 06-25-2018 at 08:46 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Yes your right, the resting voltage over time is not the best indicator of a batteries health. Keeping track of the resting voltage over time is easy and really the only test I can do while waiting long enough to do another picture quantity test. If the resting voltage over time continues to drop a significant amount past the 1st day, then that battery is definately no good and I don't need to waste 2 hours going through a picture quantity test at the end of the storage period. If the resting voltage over time doesnt continue to drop a significant amount past the 1st day, then it doesnt mean that battery is good, but it atleast shows that its worth including in the long picture quantity test at the end of the storage period.

    So what it looks like I'll do is charge up a battery, then test its picture quantity ability right away. If it cant power the camera for that many pictures then the battery is no good. If it can power the camera for an acceptable number of pictures (roughly 765), then I'll charge it up again and put it off to the side about 1 month. During that month I'll take note of its resting voltage several times to see if the resting voltage continuously drops off an unacceptable amount past the 1st day. If it does drop off an unacceptable amount during that month past the 1st day then the battery is no good and I don't need to waste my time with it anymore. If the resting voltage doesnt drop off a continuous amount during that month past the 1st day, then at the end of that month I can try it in the camera again to see how close it can get to that 765. If it gets close enough to that 765 that I'm happy then the battery is a keeper, and if it doesnt then the battery is no good. I could simplify this more and just cutout the resting voltage tests, but those tests are quick and easy and could save me from having to test a battery or two for 2 hours each at the end of that month.

    Does anyone know if the ZTS MINI-MBT is any good at testing the load performance of 3.6v lithium ion camera batteries? I have one of these and one of the terminals is for 3.6v lithium ion. Due to the design of camera batteries I have to tape a piece of wire to the 3.6v li-ion terminal and then run that wire to the camera batteries positive contact, and then the testers negative wire running to the batteries negative contact. I assume this should work and give me a reasonably accurate reading of one of my batteries health under load, but I could be wrong and the tester may not be designed for this. On the ZTS all of my camera batteries are showing 60% or 80% 3 days after charging. If the ZTS doesnt work well or at all for this then it would be nice if there was an inexpensive load tester for camera batteries instead of having to put the battery in the camera and sitting through taking pictures one by one.
    Last edited by konsole; 06-25-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I've got a Nikon CoolPix 2500 that I bought in late 2002 for the 2003 CES show in Vegas. While the OEM battery is still good for 20+ flashes, it's tired. I bought a couple of spares a few years later and they're still working quite well.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    Yes your right, the resting voltage over time is not the best indicator of a batteries health. ]/quote]
    Keeping track of the resting voltage over time is easy and really the only test I can do while waiting long enough to do another picture quantity test. If the resting voltage over time continues to drop a significant amount past the 1st day, then that battery is definately no good and I don't need to waste 2 hours going through a picture quantity test at the end of the storage period. If the resting voltage over time doesnt continue to drop a significant amount past the 1st day, then it doesnt mean that battery is good, but it atleast shows that its worth including in the long picture quantity test at the end of the storage period.
    That's a separate matter. The amount that the voltage drops after charge depends on the battery IR and the (fixed) charge termination current (and ambient temp). As the cell ages its IR will increase, which implies a larger voltage drop at end of charge. It also implies a larger voltage drop under load, so less usable capacity. This reduced capacity may be minor for low current apps, but major for high-current apps. In particular, the cell may still have much life left for low/medium current apps even though the voltage drops more at end of charge (so it needn't be "definitely no good").

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    So what it looks like I'll do is charge up a battery, then test its picture quantity ability [...]
    Yes, testing how the cell actually performs in your device is the best approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    Does anyone know if the ZTS MINI-MBT is any good at testing the load performance of 3.6v lithium ion camera batteries? [...]
    Simple universal testers like this can only give very crude estimates for Li-ion since they don't know the precise chemistry. You will probably see errors up to 40% or more in some cases. You'd get much more accurate results by using the appropriate SOC curve for your specific chemistry (e.g. see here).

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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I wonder what kind of cells are inside your battery. Are they cylindrical or square and flat?

    If cylindrical, then it could be 18650 but more likely something smaller like 17670 or something along those lines. I cannot really visualize it.

    I have some laptop cells I salvaged from discarded laptop batteries, they must be easily 10 years old and could be as old as 15 years old.

    They were half the capacity of the modern cells and over the last decade have lost a significant percentage of that limited capacity. So I don't know. Instead of 3500 mAh they probably hold 1200 mAh, I have no idea. Enough to run your device but not for long.

    Get a new battery and then note the runtime difference between the old and the new.

    IMO the battery has gone bad when you charge it and it's 4.2V or so new and then upon checking it in 2 days, it's down to 4.0V, check it again in a week and it's 3.8V. -- that's bad.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    etc,

    The batteries are flat shaped lithium ion. Today is 1 week from charging them up. 1 week ago their open circuit voltage was 4.13-4.16v (4.15v average) right off the charger, and now they are showing an open circuit voltage of 4.07-4.13v (4.10v average). The smallest drop in a week was .02v, the largest drop in a week was .08v, and the average drop in a week was .05v. The drop was an average of .03v in the first day, then .01v on the 2nd day, no drop on the 3rd day, and then between days 3 and 7 they have only dropped an average of .01v.

    Unless something dramatic happens after the 1st week, they are setting up to be about 4.15v off the charger, losing about .03v in the 1st day, losing about .01v in the 2nd day, losing .01v from days 3 to 7, and then probably only losing about .01v per month after that. Just as lithium ion batteries are suppose to behave, losing about 5% in the first day, then about 1-2% per month after that. Those percentages may be referring to the batteries capacity or state of charge instead of the open circuit voltage, but the open circuit voltage seems to be agreeing with those percentages.

    Like Gauss163 has said, open circuit voltage is not the best way to test the health of a lithium ion camera battery, or pretty much any battery. It seems like the only way of doing an accurate health test on a lithium ion camera battery is just to test the battery in the camera and see how long it can power the camera for. First see how far the battery will go in the camera when its right off the charger, then see how far it will go in the camera after its charged up and then has been sitting for a reasonable about of time (few weeks or a month) to see if the battery is able to hold its charge long term. If I only had 1 or 2 batteries that I wanted to keep then this wouldnt be that big of deal because I probably could skip the 1st test thats right off the charger, but the 2nd test where I charge it up and then let it sit for a month, will take atleast 1 hour per battery, if they are any good, and I have more then 2 batteries. I'm just not looking forward to sitting their and clicking through who knows how many pictures and how many hours. There are still "new" replacement batteries available, but they may be poor quality (I have noticed that aftermarket non-oem usually have worse build quality atleast on the exterior of the battery), they may be very old and permanently damaged from being left uncharged for so long, and if I can determine that these originals have plenty of usable life left then it makes sense to continue using them.
    Last edited by konsole; 06-29-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Great information here everybody, thanks.

    I know we’re talking lithium ion here, but just as an aside, I have some 8 year old Radio Shack NiMH AA batteries that still work ok.
    Last edited by magellan; 07-02-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Quote Originally Posted by magellan View Post
    Great information here everybody, thanks.

    I know we’re talking lithium ion here, but just as an aside, I have some 8 year old Radio Shack NiMH AA batteries that still work ok.
    I use to have some non low self discharge NiMH batteries, but I got rid of all of them because I felt that the lower capacity from LSD batteries was preferable to the higher capacity of the non-LSD batteries. If a 2500mah non-LSD battery is used even just 1st day after charging then it has already lost 500mah to self discharge and is already down to the same mah as the base model Eneloops. The non-LSD batteries only make sense if they are used right after charging because then you will be able to use the higher capacity, that they usually have, before too much of it is lost to self discharge. The current tech out there now may be better, but the last I remember it was generally assumed that higher the capacity of a non-LSD NiMH battery, the higher its self discharge would be, not a concrete rule but it seemed to be a strong enough rule to go by.
    Last edited by konsole; 07-02-2018 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    etc,

    The batteries are flat shaped lithium ion. Today is 1 week from charging them up. 1 week ago their open circuit voltage was 4.13-4.16v (4.15v average) right off the charger, and now they are showing an open circuit voltage of 4.07-4.13v (4.10v average). The smallest drop in a week was .02v, the largest drop in a week was .08v, and the average drop in a week was .05v. The drop was an average of .03v in the first day, then .01v on the 2nd day, no drop on the 3rd day, and then between days 3 and 7 they have only dropped an average of .01v.

    Unless something dramatic happens after the 1st week, they are setting up to be about 4.15v off the charger, losing about .03v in the 1st day, losing about .01v in the 2nd day, losing .01v from days 3 to 7, and then probably only losing about .01v per month after that. Just as lithium ion batteries are suppose to behave, losing about 5% in the first day, then about 1-2% per month after that. Those percentages may be referring to the batteries capacity or state of charge instead of the open circuit voltage, but the open circuit voltage seems to be agreeing with those percentages.

    Like Gauss163 has said, open circuit voltage is not the best way to test the health of a lithium ion camera battery, or pretty much any battery. It seems like the only way of doing an accurate health test on a lithium ion camera battery is just to test the battery in the camera and see how long it can power the camera for. First see how far the battery will go in the camera when its right off the charger, then see how far it will go in the camera after its charged up and then has been sitting for a reasonable about of time (few weeks or a month) to see if the battery is able to hold its charge long term. If I only had 1 or 2 batteries that I wanted to keep then this wouldnt be that big of deal because I probably could skip the 1st test thats right off the charger, but the 2nd test where I charge it up and then let it sit for a month, will take atleast 1 hour per battery, if they are any good, and I have more then 2 batteries. I'm just not looking forward to sitting their and clicking through who knows how many pictures and how many hours. There are still "new" replacement batteries available, but they may be poor quality (I have noticed that aftermarket non-oem usually have worse build quality atleast on the exterior of the battery), they may be very old and permanently damaged from being left uncharged for so long, and if I can determine that these originals have plenty of usable life left then it makes sense to continue using them.
    If you remember how many flashes you got with a new, fully charged battery, compare that number to what you get now.

    That's your answer.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    Update on the test

    After 1 month of sitting after being charged, the battery provides 655 pictures.

    So right off the charger the battery provided 765 pictures, and after 1 month of sitting after charging it provided 655 pictures. Thats a loss of usable life of 14%. Right off the charger it had an open circuit voltage of 4.15v and after 1 month it had an open circuit voltage of 4.11v. At 14% usable life loss after sitting for 1 month it doesnt appear to be performing like a brand new battery, but its close enough that I'm perfectly fine with using it.

    Out of all the other batteries, about 1/2 lost about 0.05v of their open circuit voltage in 1 month, while the other 1/2 lost about .10v of their open circuit voltage in 1 month. I haven't decided if I want to spend the hours running the full picture taking test with all these other batteries, or if I want to risk it and just assume that the open circuit voltage is likely an accurate enough indicator of their health for my needs. I know I should run the full test of the other batteries, and maybe I will, but thats going to take a long time (about 3 hours per battery) and what I can do instead is keep the batteries that have lost only 0.05v open circuit voltage in 1 month, risk assuming that they are about as healthy as the 1 battery that I did fully test, and get rid of the batteries that lost 0.10v open circuit voltage in 1 month. Then just keep an eye on these extra batteries that I keep and make note of any that dont last long in the camera.

    Whether I do the full test on all the other batteries I havent decided yet, but I did prove to myself that old (10+ year old) li-ion batteries should be given a chance before its assumed that age has gotten the best of them, because they could still be plenty usable.
    Last edited by konsole; 07-24-2018 at 04:23 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I decided to take the time to test a few others that where charged and then sat for 1 month. The 2nd battery, after charging and sitting for 1 month, powered the camera for 701 pictures. This battery I didnt test how many pictures it powered the camera for when it was just off the charger, but assuming it would have been around 765 like the 1st battery, since its open circuit voltage performance over the month was almost exactly the same, then this 2nd battery still has about 92% of its usable life in the camera.

    So the numbers so far...
    1st battery - 765 pictures just off the charger, 655 when it sat for 1 month after being charged (drop of 14%)
    2nd battery - probably around 765 pictures just off the charger, 701 when it sat for 1 month after being charged (drop of 8%)
    Last edited by konsole; 07-25-2018 at 08:43 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I'd be cautious here... I think the assumption that the 2nd battery also has 765 batteries just off the charger is probably wrong. I found that Li-Ion batteries do lose capacity over time and that this is hardly noticeable by open-circuit voltage. What rises significantly, though, is internal resistance, though I don't know if it's directly correlated with capacity loss or just another effect that also is part of degrading.

    Did you count pictures for ANY other battery just off the charger?

    It could as well be, and I'd not be surprised by that, that the 2nd battery actually provides 819 pictures right off the charger, so that the 701 it gives after a month also is exactly 14% less.

    [QUOTE=konsole;5228135]I decided to take the time to test a few others that where charged and then sat for 1 month. The 2nd battery, after charging and sitting for 1 month, powered the camera for 701 pictures. This battery I didnt test how many pictures it powered the camera for when it was just off the charger, but assuming it would have been around 765 like the 1st battery, since its open circuit voltage performance over the month was almost exactly the same, then this 2nd battery still has about 92% of its usable life in the camera.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Life expectancy of Lithium Ion camera battery (mine is 12 years old)

    I just tested some Samsung 22F 18650's laptop cells that are 10 years old. Discharged at 250mA, they still have 88% of their original capacity.

    Good cells can last a long time.

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