A 10 year old 18500 finally failed

I have these "AW" protected 18500 cells that I got circa 2008-2009 time frame and they kept working until now.
Yesterday I had the first one fail. Failed to charge and testing the voltage read 0.0V, so it finally traveled to the other side.

I am sure the rest are drastically reduced in capacity versus the original 1500mAh but at least they charge, run for a short while and then quit. No, I am not getting great runtime in an MD3 anything, other than M61LLL and even that's not getting optimum runtime via these cells.
But they do turn on and run at full lumens.

Come to think of it, the original AW 2200 mAh 18650 still work as well. Though I think out of a 6-set, I've had one or two completely fail.

Sounds like the PCB tripped if reading 0v, i have cells even older and still work. Granted lower term V but not by much.
Besides, cells are too cheap and far better than 10yrs back anyway, makes no sense in running old stuff unless real low asking applications imo. For $5-$8 might as well have a 3000-3500mah tank .

Well, I am strictly speaking about the 18500 format. Apparently the highest you can get now is 2000 mAh.

Ah right, yes have a few of those as well. Never been impressed with them, in fact i am sure mine are 1000mah(pretty old!). These have never been developed much over the years unlike 18650's.

I was quite enthusiastic about IMR18500 until the UH1835P appeared. Now I'm all about those, but I still use IFR18500, but only because IMR18350 gives too much juice, an incan light is too bright at times on 3.7V, so IFR18500 3.2V (and 1A lamp instead of 1.2A or 1.8A or higher) is a better illumination fit for dark adapted eyes deep in the dark. Different chems and lengths, but they have the same capacity, 1200mAh.

But the 18650 folks have a point, most dev advancement is with 18650. I'm not sure where the negligible extra capacity of an ICR/IMR18500 would be an obvious and better choice over UH1835P 18350s. Get a shorter tube, try KeepPower's little miracles. Illumn and rtdvapor carry them.

I don't get it why they can't make a cell that's almost at the capacity of 18650.

An 18500 is just 15mm short of 18650. That's 1.5 cm. Or 6/10 of an inch.

Proportionally, an 18500 should be 2660 mAh given full size 18650 is 3500 mAh.

etc said:

I don't get it why they can't make a cell that's almost at the capacity of 18650.

An 18500 is just 15mm short of 18650. That's 1.5 cm. Or 6/10 of an inch.

Proportionally, an 18500 should be 2660 mAh given full size 18650 is 3500 mAh.

Click to expand...

They probably could, but they have to upgrade their current 18500 manufacturing facilities. The millions of dollars it might cost to do that, probably isn't worth it for the few buyers that need high-capacity 18500 cells.

If someone designs a popular EV that uses 18500 cells, I'd bet you'd see high-capacity 18500's on the market pretty soon.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

They probably could, but they have to upgrade their current 18500 manufacturing facilities.

Click to expand...

What do you think would need upgrading?

Gauss163 said:

What do you think would need upgrading?

Click to expand...

If nothing needed upgrading, companies would automatically start producing high-capacity cells in a size other than 18650 or 21700. Why wouldn't they?

I suspect machines would need tighter/cleaner tolerances for applying the coatings on the layers, and maybe even the windings of jellyrolls. Their current machines might not be made for that. Perhaps even a different or upgraded chemical process for applying the cathode and anode layers, to make them thinner. Maybe the clean rooms / low-humidity rooms would need to be better.

A small company that does of lot of the production by hand, using smaller manufacturing machines, might be able to upgrade their assembly for less money. I'm not sure how many, if any, 18500 cells are made like that. It might just be research labs that do that.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

If nothing needed upgrading, companies would automatically start producing high-capacity cells in a size other than 18650 or 21700. Why wouldn't they?

I suspect machines would need tighter/cleaner tolerances for applying the coatings on the layers, and maybe even the windings of jellyrolls. Their current machines might not be made for that. [...].

Click to expand...

Possibly, but I suspect it has more to do with market demand than any changes that might be required on the assembly line. I suspect the demand is so small that it doesn't make sense financially even if the required changes were minor. Also, smaller firms may not have easy access to the latest generation tech (chemistry, separators, etc), much of which is proprietary.

clearly the 18650 cell is a 100-fold more popular than 18500. I get that. Just doesn't seem like upgrading the few 18500 that are made is such a big deal.

My 10 year old 18500 cell that failed was at 1500 mAh and by the end of its lifecycle, probably at 1000mAh or below.

Now you can get new Panny for 2000 mAh.

First world problems and all that jazz.

Chris

I have a bunch of AW 2600mAh 18650 cells, remember those? With the distinctive 3 tops at the negative end, that I never really thought were necessary.

They must be around 9 years old at this point and still keep going. Now the capacity must be drastically reduced.

etc said:

I have a bunch of AW 2600mAh 18650 cells, remember those? With the distinctive 3 tops at the negative end, that I never really thought were necessary.

They must be around 9 years old at this point and still keep going. Now the capacity must be drastically reduced.

Click to expand...

Since adding button tops weren't all that common back then, the dimples on the negative end aided in making contact with the positive flat top, when run in series.

Chris

Makes sense

Remember immediately before the 2600mAh series AW had that 2200mAh cell. Those I've had fail. I think they were made wholly in China while the newer, 2600mAh generation was made in Japan, with the PCB circuit not sure from where. Kinda amazing they still work. I utterly have no idea of the capacity but the runtime has to be less, obviosly than anything that followed.
But run they do and generate lumens.

The really cool thing about ancient Li-ion you can carry them in place of primaries and then just discard when they are discharged. I carry several old 18650, unprotected, just for that purpose. So they generate one last song. The things must be 15 years old and came from laptop battery packs.