Wuben        
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Converter/LightEngine differences?

  1. #1

    Default Converter/LightEngine differences?

    I am getting my 1st McGizmo (SunDrop) and I am really excited. It does not come with the LE though. After looking at the ordering page I tried to find info on the different options and came up empty handed. Can someone give me a break down of the different options (AA (1.5V), 3S (3V), HIVE (3V), 6V (6V))? Thank you!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    There are a lot of options. To narrow it down a bit, do you have a preference for certain batteries? Are you comfortable with rechargeable? Would you prefer disposables? Want to be able to use both?

    If you know which batteries/body you want to use, the number of possibilities is drastically reduced, and much simpler to explain.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    I want to use 16340 batteries, but not a must. As far as the different LEs that are available from McGizmo, I just want to know the differences between the 4. That would help quite a bit. I was able to find a good amount of info for the HIVE but not some much for the rest. It would be awesome if there was a comparison chart. I am guessing there is somewhere.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Iíve not seen such a chart. Would be useful to the uninitiated.

    My challenge is deciding between the AA engine, or the HIVE and dedicated 14500 use. Iím leaning towards the HIVE for the programming options.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Thereís a bit of a chart at the bottom of this thread.
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show...-Ordering-Info

    Doesnít go into light engine specifics though.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    nbp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,936

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    What specifically do you need that the chart doesnít address?

  7. #7
    Moderator
    nbp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,936

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    The HIVE is the only programmable engine. The other three are three-speeds. Then you are just deciding on the emitter and voltage youíre interested in.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    The McGizmo AA driver, which actually accepts voltages between 1V & 4.5V, is the only McGizmo driver that is constant current in all modes. The others all use PWM for all low/medium modes, but if I am not mistaken, the highest mode should be direct drive.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by night.hoodie View Post
    The McGizmo AA driver, which actually accepts voltages between 1V & 4.5V, is the only McGizmo driver that is constant current in all modes. The others all use PWM for all low/medium modes, but if I am not mistaken, the highest mode should be direct drive.
    Using my phone's camera I see PWM on all three modes of the AA converter, more noticeable on low and medium and faintly on high.
    Same goes for the 3S.
    I don't see the PWM in use though.
    The only converter I can see PWM in use with is the Hive.
    Last edited by F89; 08-07-2018 at 12:48 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by F89 View Post
    Using my phone's camera I see PWM on all three modes of the AA converter, more noticeable on low and medium and faintly on high.
    I hope not to get into any deep discussion of PWM and get banned and have the thread locked. I have clunky shoes, but I am trying to tread lightly.

    What you are seeing with your phone's camera cannot be PWM, unless it is not the AA converter:

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    The converter is a three level converter with the same method of level change used in the 3S converter as well as the 6V buck 3 speed converter I have been building with. The output (constant current) from this converter is 15, 45 and 300 mA (low - high).
    I don't know him personally, but I have enjoyed many of his posts, and have an impression of the man. I believe if you held a gun to McGizmo's head and ordered him to lie to you, he would defy the order and tell the truth. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but I believe him to be entirely honest about his product.

    Phone camera test is not definitive, or can be misinterpreted. CPF member jon_slider has some threads that explore and explain what the camera phone is detecting from constant current circuits. I would suspect it is ripple, not PWM.

    Also, things unseen can adversely affect you, so it is a poor argument to suggest PWM is harmless if you cannot see it. You cannot see or smell carbon monoxide, this does not mean it is not unhealthy to breathe it. You cannot see the bacteria that infected your wound, but it does not mean it will not eventually take your limb. There are many counter-examples that invalidate this often repeated argument, "can't see it, so it is harmless."

    It is difficult sometimes to trace ill health effects to their source. Many claim to be unaffected by PWM, but it is unclear, depends on how the light is used and for how long. Eye strain or headaches can be caused for any number of reasons. That is what makes PWM so insidious, IMO, because it is difficult to determine it is the source of any problem.

    PWM was introduced into LED drivers to solve the problem of tint shift in lower modes, which it is claimed to solve, and in theory, it should, but I still see tint shift sometimes with PWM lights in lower modes. PWM circuits are also less expensive to design and manufacture than fully constant current circuits, and less efficient. It is only through the evolution of LED drivers and users' experience that these details become evident. With PWM, YMMV. If it isn't something that bothers you, don't worry about it, but if you suspect PWM bothers you, avoid it.
    Last edited by night.hoodie; 08-07-2018 at 10:35 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by night.hoodie View Post
    I hope not to get into any deep discussion of PWM and get banned and have the thread locked. I have clunky shoes, but I am trying to tread lightly.

    What you are seeing with your phone's camera cannot be PWM, unless it is not the AA converter:



    I don't know him personally, but I have enjoyed many of his posts, and have an impression of the man. I believe if you held a gun to McGizmo's head and ordered him to lie to you, he would defy the order and tell the truth. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but I believe him to be entirely honest about his product.

    Phone camera test is not definitive, or can be misinterpreted. CPF member jon_slider has some threads that explore and explain what the camera phone is detecting from constant current circuits. I would suspect it is ripple, not PWM.

    Also, things unseen can adversely affect you, so it is a poor argument to suggest PWM is harmless if you cannot see it. You cannot see or smell carbon monoxide, this does not mean it is not unhealthy to breathe it. You cannot see the bacteria that infected your wound, but it does not mean it will not eventually take your limb. There are many counter-examples that invalidate this often repeated argument, "can't see it, so it is harmless."

    It is difficult sometimes to trace ill health effects to their source. Many claim to be unaffected by PWM, but it is unclear, depends on how the light is used and for how long. Eye strain or headaches can be caused for any number of reasons. That is what makes PWM so insidious, IMO, because it is difficult to determine it is the source of any problem.

    PWM was introduced into LED drivers to solve the problem of tint shift in lower modes, which it is claimed to solve, and in theory, it should, but I still see tint shift sometimes with PWM lights in lower modes. PWM circuits are also less expensive to design and manufacture than fully constant current circuits, and less efficient. It is only through the evolution of LED drivers and users' experience that these details become evident. With PWM, YMMV. If it isn't something that bothers you, don't worry about it, but if you suspect PWM bothers you, avoid it.
    Yes, it's an AA converter as stated. Whatever it is, PWM or ripple, it looks exactly the same as the lines seen on the 3S through the phone.
    I'm particularly sensitive to PWM and don't like using lights with easily detected low frequencies but I don't notice it with the AA or 3S in use. Whether it's bad for me or not, I don't know?
    As far as Don's credibility goes I'm certainly not about to call him a liar, I'm just sharing my observations. I may have to self filter a bit more by the looks of things.
    I'd rather watch paint dry than read john slider's ramblings, my own are bad enough.

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Maui
    Posts
    17,237

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Hi guys,
    When it comes to the converters, I will request/ specify the physical dimensions of the converter as well as input/ output parameters but as to the actual design and knowledge of the circuits, they are a mystery to me. My requests on these converters is for them to be constant current to the LED as long as the battery is capable of providing the required power. There is no direct drive as this would vary with input voltage as far as I know. As for PWM, this has been used to my knowledge especially for the lower output levels in some of the converters. It is my understanding that you can have constant current and PWM provided the on cycles are at a constant current. I would assume you would need a scope and the knowledge of hot to use it to actually evaluate what the converter is providing to the LED and from this infer what the LED would be doing as far as photon generation. As to the actual nature of the converters I use, I rely on the the designers tell me about them and hopefully, in good faith anyway, convey accurately what I have been told.

    As to the OP here, using a 16340 which I assume would be a protected LI-Ion battery you have the choice of the 3S converter or the HIVE. The 3S converter gives you three levels of output with the high level at about 600 mA. It is constant current at all three levels. As for PWM, I believe the low and medium levels do have PWM whereas the high does not. You also have the choice of LED which is another good area for debate.....
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  13. #13

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    Hi guys,
    When it comes to the converters, I will request/ specify the physical dimensions of the converter as well as input/ output parameters but as to the actual design and knowledge of the circuits, they are a mystery to me. My requests on these converters is for them to be constant current to the LED as long as the battery is capable of providing the required power. There is no direct drive as this would vary with input voltage as far as I know. As for PWM, this has been used to my knowledge especially for the lower output levels in some of the converters. It is my understanding that you can have constant current and PWM provided the on cycles are at a constant current. I would assume you would need a scope and the knowledge of hot to use it to actually evaluate what the converter is providing to the LED and from this infer what the LED would be doing as far as photon generation. As to the actual nature of the converters I use, I rely on the the designers tell me about them and hopefully, in good faith anyway, convey accurately what I have been told.

    As to the OP here, using a 16340 which I assume would be a protected LI-Ion battery you have the choice of the 3S converter or the HIVE. The 3S converter gives you three levels of output with the high level at about 600 mA. It is constant current at all three levels. As for PWM, I believe the low and medium levels do have PWM whereas the high does not. You also have the choice of LED which is another good area for debate.....
    There you have it, well handled and even answered the OPs question.
    The good thing about the 3S and Hive is that they run perfectly well on primary and rechargable.
    Apparently the AA converter (300mA max.) can handle 4.2V but I've never tried as I stick with AA rechargeable or lithium which I guess is the whole point.
    Basically that's it. If you want higher output and more bells and whistles, the Hive. Stock 3 speed with moderate high, the 3S. Ability to use a single AA, the AA converter.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo View Post
    Hi guys,
    When it comes to the converters, I will request/ specify the physical dimensions of the converter as well as input/ output parameters but as to the actual design and knowledge of the circuits, they are a mystery to me. My requests on these converters is for them to be constant current to the LED as long as the battery is capable of providing the required power. There is no direct drive as this would vary with input voltage as far as I know. As for PWM, this has been used to my knowledge especially for the lower output levels in some of the converters. It is my understanding that you can have constant current and PWM provided the on cycles are at a constant current. I would assume you would need a scope and the knowledge of hot to use it to actually evaluate what the converter is providing to the LED and from this infer what the LED would be doing as far as photon generation. As to the actual nature of the converters I use, I rely on the the designers tell me about them and hopefully, in good faith anyway, convey accurately what I have been told.

    As to the OP here, using a 16340 which I assume would be a protected LI-Ion battery you have the choice of the 3S converter or the HIVE. The 3S converter gives you three levels of output with the high level at about 600 mA. It is constant current at all three levels. As for PWM, I believe the low and medium levels do have PWM whereas the high does not. You also have the choice of LED which is another good area for debate.....
    Thanks all and especially you Don. Anybody know what these are? I was told 119 and xpg2, both 3S. (I can't figure out how to upload a picture)

  15. #15
    Moderator
    nbp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,936

    Default Re: Converter/LightEngine differences?

    You need to use a photo hosting site like imgur, etc.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •