New mode idea: Gradual lumen decline

I got inspired by the new Malkoff bodyguard concept. The Bodyguard Malkoff Devices light turns on generating 1000 lumens but only for 10 seconds, after which it steps down to 200 lumens.

I don't think I care about the 10 second window, it's too narrow for me. I thought say 180 seconds is a lot more viable. Not do I care for sudden decline to 20%. But this got me thinking.

I think it would be really neat to have a device that starts at 800 lumens and then slowly over the next 5 minutes lowers down to 300 lumens. Slowly as in gradually as in not noticeably. Instead of an abrupt, walk-off-the-cliff mode change when it downshifts from x to y value. the value can be frozen for the first 15 seconds I suppose and then it can begin the downhill skying.

I picked the initial x value and the final y value and the time duration of n is more or less arbitrary, it can be whatever. I think not lower than 3 minutes but maybe as long as 10 minutes. But I think 5 minutes is a good compromise. The main point is, it's more of a ski slope where it slowly regulates to the second value. It can go from 100% to 50% or even to 33%.

I don't know if that's possible with electronics. But it has to be. I don't like abrupt mode changes.

Because you need the lumens to begin with in the first few seconds/minutes and then after 5 minutes, it does not matter so much. Say if you are laying under your car fixing things, not sure you need 1000 lumens for an hour versus 350 lumens for 3 hours.

Or there is some emergency, pretty much the first few minutes count and after 20 seconds at 1000 lumens it can begin the decline down to 33%. I think 1/3 of the initial value is a good choice.

etc said:

I don't think I care about the 10 second window, it's too narrow for me. I thought say 180 seconds is a lot more viable. Not do I care for sudden decline to 20%. But this got me thinking.

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Eagtac does a 200-second, 25% stepdown on turbo on some lights (you can turn this feature off too). But I'm sure it's a sudden stepdown.

A gradual decline wouldn't be a problem for most people since your eyes don't notice it, but I just prefer to be more in control and turn it down to a lower mode myself.

I guess something like Zebralight's PID, but time-based instead of temperature. I have to watch very close to notice the change.

There are some manufacturers have it designed so there's a gradual decline to a specific output to maintain. Olight and Fenix comes to mind although I don't remember what specific models. What you really want is a light that has thermal regulation. 1000 lumens creates a lot of heat in a small package but good brands have thermal regulation and will drop in output to find a middle ground between max output and not overheating and will usually drop down to and maintain an output of around 350-500 lumens depending on how sensitive the thermal regulation is set to. Zebralight and Armytek are two good manufacturers in that regard. Zebralight actually has a programmable thermal regulation in all of their models that you can set if you want it running higher/hotter or lower/cooler. Personally for me I'd much rather have thermal regulation instead of being forced to have it drop to a specific output that's noticeably dimmer. Especially when you can take advantage of the thermal regulation in the colder climates where the light will stay brighter due to the regulation not kicking in so soon or dropping as much.

Paul Kim's Icon Rogue lights did this. Everyone hated it. Review: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?223515

markr6 said:

Eagtac does a 200-second, 25% stepdown on turbo on some lights (you can turn this feature off too). But I'm sure it's a sudden stepdown.

A gradual decline wouldn't be a problem for most people since your eyes don't notice it, but I just prefer to be more in control and turn it down to a lower mode myself.

I guess something like Zebralight's PID, but time-based instead of temperature. I have to watch very close to notice the change.

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I too used to think I prefer to be in control but it's good to have the machine do this work. Under a stressful situation, it may not be possible, or you may forget. I like the dual twisty of the head mode and find clicky is a pain to shift modes.

Main point is, I don't want to detect the change. I get aggravated when I lose 2/3 or 4/5 of the output but if its slow, you can process it much better.

You kind of adjust to it easier.

this is what I think after years of changing modes. I think 800 lumens is a safe bet on 1x18650 but at the same time I don't want to go below about the levels of current M61 module. That's my minimum so to speak.

900 or 800 lumens down to 400 lumens is a safe bet IMO, while not ideal, and programmed to take place over 5 minutes.

Maybe it's my age, honestly but to be perfectly honest I am tired of shifting modes. I want the machine to foresee my expectations and adjust accordingly.
I want a semi-smart light.
When you need the 800 lumen turbo mode, it's usually only for a few minutes. You are much more likely to need 400 lumens on an ongoing basis, although I can foresee the circumstance where you need max lumens on an ongoing basis. You compromise for one size to fit all.

Well, this was almost 10 years ago. It was a tiny 1xaa light that was what, 30 lumens? there *are* differences. 9 years is like a century in terms of changes that have taken place. That LED was terribly inefficient.

Anyway, the responses in that thread are mostly positive. The complaints center around plastic that gets scratched, it's a cheap 9.99 light.

the significant difference I am proposing is, it does not step down indefinitely but rather to a defined floor. Let's say 350 lumens and then runs regulated in that mode until depletion.

the decline starts almost immediately from the turbo 900 lumen mode.

It's a two mode light one is 900, the other 350 lumens and it shifts from one to another by itself over 5 minutes or a similar time interval. I think 350 lumens is a very comfortable floor. Unlike the original Malkoff 10-second concept, this spends a lot more time at higher lumens and shifts without abrupt changes.

parametrek said:

Paul Kim's Icon Rogue lights did this. Everyone hated it. Review:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?223515

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User Interface

The UI is in keeping with the KISS principle – click on once for Hi, click off and back on within a short period of time for Lo. Click again to turn off. Basically the same as the Surefire E1B Backup.

The ICON Rogue presents a new type of regulated circuit that I haven't seen before. As these results show, it is tightly regulated – just in a non-traditional fashion. The key point is the 4 defined stages of output on Hi: 10 mins of fairly level Max output, followed by 45.5 mins of rapidly declining output in a stepwise fashion (65 steps down of 1% each), followed by 194.5 mins of slowly stepping down output (25 steps down of 1% each), followed by a long "moon mode" of slowly decaying output until the cell is exhausted. The pattern can be restarted at anytime by simply running through an off/on cycle.
. . .

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etc said:

When you need the 800 lumen turbo mode, it's usually only for a few minutes. You are much more likely to need 400 lumens on an ongoing basis, although I can foresee the circumstance where you need max lumens on an ongoing basis. You compromise for one size to fit all.

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I agree. That's why the medium, or second highest mode, is the most important to me when buying a light. Or Zebralights, where you have full control of programming all the modes.

400 lumens was the Turbo or the high mode just what seems like a few years ago.

Self-dimming mode is an interesting feature. I doubt it will get embraced by the masses or the cpf clientele.

sometimes you *want* 1000 lumens on an ongoing basis. Rare but it does happen.

The Bodyguard is an interesting solution to an agency's requirement for blinding flash without overheating/killing battery and no selectable modes. For my non-tactical uses, I would always rather be able to adjust the modes myself. Sometimes I want a gradual decline as my eyes adjust, but other times I need a certain level of light consistently. I find that the RampingIOS in my Emisar D1 does the job quite well. Not as well as an HDS rotary mind you, but then the HDS doesn't have screaming output to begin with.

yeah, I am aware it was a special one time custom order.

While I also prefer to select the output as needed, I can understand why someone might get tired of changing modes. By way of comparison, every car I've ever owned has had a manual transmission. This has remained my preference for many years, but sometimes...just now and again...I get tired of shifting gears. Have you considered Intellibeam from Surefire? From what I've read that would be a like a smooth shifting Cadillac.

The biggest trouble that I see with the proposed automatic step down UI is that it only goes in one direction: down. What if you want the light to ramp up slowly, giving your dark adapted eyes time to adjust?

Modernflame said:

While I also prefer to select the output as needed, I can understand why someone might get tired of changing modes. By way of comparison, every car I've ever owned has had a manual transmission. This has remained my preference for many years, but sometimes...just now and again...I get tired of shifting gears. Have you considered Intellibeam from Surefire? From what I've read that would be a like a smooth shifting Cadillac.

The biggest trouble that I see with the proposed automatic step down UI is that it only goes in one direction: down. What if you want the light to ramp up slowly, giving your dark adapted eyes time to adjust?

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I've not tried Surefire's implementation, but I have a Petzl headlamp which I believe originated the design. The adjustment works well but I find that it is always brighter than I want it to be. If it were possible to calibrate the sensitivity I would likely use the lamp much more.

you might want it, i hate it, Fenix lights do that exactly my new HP30R does it, between thermal regulation and timed dim modes, its annoying to me and very noticable if your on high turbo modes, hell even MED on flood shifts down, read my other post, i used my light all night last night, and it was constantly stepping down, running in turbo mode for 6 minutes is almost useless to me, but it is a crazy amount of light.