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Thread: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

  1. #1

    Default 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    I'm just curious: which one has the better projectors? The 2013 has 9011 "side-entry" projectors while the 2018 has 9012 projectors. Obviously, the 9011 is going to put out more lumens but from what I understand, how many lumens a bulb puts out and how many actually hit the road are separate entities. What's the reason Toyota switched from 9011 projectors to 9012 projectors? I'd like to think that they did it because they value generational improvement above all else...but could cost been the deciding factor? Could it be that the 9012 projectors are actually inferior, or perhaps equal but cheaper?
    Last edited by Ls400; 10-14-2018 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    What's the reason Toyota switched from 9011 projectors to 9012 projectors?
    Probably customer satisfaction in terms of bulb life. 9012LL (or even a regular 9012) has a much longer lifespan than 9011.
    I'd like to think that they did it because they value generational improvement above all else
    A lot of people who feel loyalty to the company that made their car (or computer, or motorcycle, or chainsaw, or camera) prefer not to acknowledge that virtually every part on virtually every car (or whatever) is specced to fit within a cost constraint, and/or to reduce costs elsewhere (build cost, warranty cost, etc). Customer satisfaction is in there, but it's only one of multiple factors, and it's often not the overriding one.

    Could it be that the 9012 projectors are actually inferior, or perhaps equal but cheaper?
    Could be, could be.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    My bad! I said 9011 projectors when I meant that the 2013 RAV4 has 9005 projectors. I did put 9011s in place of the stock 9005s--which is the cause of my confusion!

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Probably customer satisfaction in terms of bulb life. 9012LL (or even a regular 9012) has a much longer lifespan than 9011.
    I know that the technical definition of a 9012 allows for a much higher lumen output than 9006, but is there a minimum lumen output for each bulb type? I know that LL bulbs are optimized, for, well, longevity. Does that mean that 9012LL's could possibly have a lower lumen output than an optimized 9006?

    Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of "side-entry" projectors?

  4. #4
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    I know that the technical definition of a 9012 allows for a much higher lumen output than 9006, but is there a minimum lumen output for each bulb type?
    The tolerance, by regulation, is ±15%. So, it can be as low as 85% of the nominal output, and as high as 115% of the nominal output.

    Does that mean that 9012LL's could possibly have a lower lumen output than an optimized 9006?
    Let's use that bit of information to find out exactly what that means: A 9012 is nominally (at 12.8V in the US) 1700lm (±15%), or 1445lm to 1955lm . A 9006 is nominally (at 12.8V) 1000lm (±15%), or from 850lm to 1150lm.
    So, no, a 9012's lowest output is still 25% more light than a 9006's highest output.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 10-16-2018 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Corrected to indicate the @12.8V specs for HIR2

  5. #5

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    The tolerance, by regulation, is ±15%. So, it can be as low as 85% of the nominal output, and as high as 115% of the nominal output.
    Does this tolerance apply only to brand-new bulbs or must bulbs meet the tolerance over their lifespan? I.e. a 12-year-old LL bulb must still hit at least 85% of the nominal output? Yes, I've had some bulbs last perhaps almost 20 years in cars without being changed!

  6. #6
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    Does this tolerance apply only to brand-new bulbs or must bulbs meet the tolerance over their lifespan? I.e. a 12-year-old LL bulb must still hit at least 85% of the nominal output? Yes, I've had some bulbs last perhaps almost 20 years in cars without being changed!
    Yes-- to new bulbs, no-- not over their lifespan.

    A 12-year* old bulb has probably been undervolted so long the filament is trash and the bulb envelope is black. 20 years points to a severe voltage issue. All halogen bulbs suffer from diminishing lumen maintenance, the long-life ones will persist in lighting up long after they've stopped being useful.

    *Years being not quite the best way to describe bulbs, which should be described in hours of usage. How often are the lamps used over those years? Still, in what we might call 'normal' use, 12 years is a very, very long time to not have to replace a headlamp bulb. 20 years is very improbably long to not have to change a bulb.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 10-16-2018 at 11:26 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    My bad! I said 9011 projectors when I meant that the 2013 RAV4 has 9005 projectors.
    That strengthens the case for a migration to HIR2, which has a much longer lifespan while producing about the same amount of light as HB3.

    I know that the technical definition of a 9012 allows for a much higher lumen output than 9006, but is there a minimum lumen output for each bulb type?
    There is a nominal output and an allowable plus/minus tolerance, so yes, there is an allowable range defined by a minimum and a maximum. At 12.8v, an HB3 (9005) is specced as 1700 lumens +/- 12%, so the minimum is 1496 and the maximum is 1904.

    I know that LL bulbs are optimized, for, well, longevity. Does that mean that 9012LL's could possibly have a lower lumen output than an optimized 9006?
    No. The allowable range for an HB4 (9006) at 12.8v is 1000 +/- 15%, so 850 to 1150. The figures for HIR2 (9012) at 12.8v are 1700 lumens +/- 15%, so the minimum is 1445 and the maximum is 1955.

    Does this tolerance apply only to brand-new bulbs
    Yes.

    or must bulbs meet the tolerance over their lifespan?
    No.

    Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of "side-entry" projectors?
    Reduced depth and no dead spot in the heel of the reflector, which can be a nice plus for the optical engineer building the beam pattern.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* don.gwapo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    This is what I like to our 2013 RAV4 that the low and high beam uses the same 9005 bulb, not the usual 9006/9005. If the low beam goes out, you can just swap them right away until you get a new ones.
    Pick the pooch!

  9. #9
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by don.gwapo View Post
    This is what I like to our 2013 RAV4 that the low and high beam uses the same 9005 bulb, not the usual 9006/9005. If the low beam goes out, you can just swap them right away until you get a new ones.
    Which you could do the very first time-- after that, carry spares! (And thank you for thinking to do the temporary swap, rather than driving around with high beams to 'compensate' for missing a low beam!)

  10. #10

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Which you could do the very first time-- after that, carry spares! (And thank you for thinking to do the temporary swap, rather than driving around with high beams to 'compensate' for missing a low beam!)
    I noticed that when replacing the 9005s, the capsules of the low beam 9005s were clear while the capsules of the high beam 9005s were cloudy. Could this be an effect of the car constantly using the high beam 9005s as DRLs?

  11. #11

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    I noticed that when replacing the 9005s, the capsules of the low beam 9005s were clear while the capsules of the high beam 9005s were cloudy. Could this be an effect of the car constantly using the high beam 9005s as DRLs?
    That's exactly what did it.

  12. #12

    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    That's exactly what did it.
    Are they still useful as high beams when cloudy, or should they be tossed?

  13. #13
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 vs 2018 rav4 projectors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    Are they still useful as high beams when cloudy, or should they be tossed?
    With sufficient continuous high beam use, they'll clean up again, but that takes a while. If it goes from light brown to approaching pearlescent black, it's definitely done, even if they are still lighting up. It diminishes light output AND affects the focus.

    I'd move the DRL function to the turn signals with the DRL-1 to prevent that. Instead of the "quick splice" device pictured on that page, I'd use one of the Posi-Tap/Posi-Lock connectors instead. A much more sure and water-resistant connection than those crimp-and-fold devices.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 10-18-2018 at 07:27 AM.

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