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Thread: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

  1. #1

    Default Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    While at Wal-Mart, I noticed that the 9012s seem to have a different coating from the 9006s. The 9012's capsule seems to reflect some blue/purple light while the 9006's doesn't have the same effect.

    Does the Sylvania 9012 have a different coating than the 9006? Do all 9012s have different coatings versus 9006s? Do different manufacturers use different coatings?

    https://imgur.com/a/7Ggpzok

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    There is no coating specified on a 9006, unless it is a colored type with blue, purple, yellow, etc. A 9012 has an infrared-reflective coating on the glass, and that's what you're seeing.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    I'm a little bit confused:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...R2-scrutinized


    I've just had a close-up look at the preproduction version of the new Philips HIR2 bulb, and it looks really good. The burner is based on the latest iteration of H7 (...H8, H9, H11) architecture: a very compact, high-precision filament coil with filament supports configured so as to create a metal-free region around the filament -- this greatly improves beam focus and reduces shadows and stray light, respectively. The bulb envelope is made of quartz, and there is no IR-reflective coating on it
    But in the same thread, you said:

    The regulation does not specify an IRR coating
    So the Philips HIR2/9012 doesn't have an IR coating. But you just said that 9012 has an IR coating?

    I understand that the regulations don't require "HIR" bulbs to have an IR coating, and that newer bulbs can easily meet HIR-levels of output with updated burner designs. I'm just confused by your statement in this thread that 9012 has IR coating.
    Last edited by Ls400; 10-26-2018 at 12:33 AM.

  4. #4
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    I'm just confused by your statement in this thread that 9012 has IR coating.
    The requirement for a 9012 is mechanical, electrical, and optical-- how they achieve the electrical and optical portion is up to the maker. If it takes the IRR coating to do it, they'll do that. If it takes a different filament winding technique and different metallurgy, they'll do that.

    The HIR2 *you looked at* has the coating, obviously. It doesn't mean ALL HIR2s have the coating.

    It's rather like the old riddle: "You have two coins, totaling $0.35. One of those coins is not a dime. What coins do you have?" Obviously, you have a quarter and a dime-- the quarter is one of those coins and is clearly not a dime!
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 10-26-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    I'm a little bit confused
    ...by a nine-years-old thread about a prototype version of a different brand of bulb. C'mon, dude, you have to do some of the thinkwork here. It can't all be done for you! :-)

    So the Philips HIR2/9012 doesn't have an IR coating.
    The production version did, and still does.

    But you just said that 9012 has an IR coating?
    The Sylvania 9012s have an IR coating, yes. So do the Philips, and all of the Voslas.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Thanks guys for setting me straight. So, if I understand correctly, the Philips 9012 has the IR coating, as do most other 9012s. However, the Philips 9011 doesn't have the IR coating, right?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Right.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    So if Philips had used an IR coating on its 9011s, could it have achieved the same performance as its current 9011 offering while extending lifespan?

    I'm wondering because the '13 RAV4 uses 9005 for low beams, and having a long-life option that doesn't sacrifice performance would be nice. The Philips 9011s have a comparatively short life in the grand scheme of things.
    Last edited by Ls400; 10-28-2018 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    If you want to try out an HIR1 with the IR coating, you can buy the Harison-Toshiba bulb from Toyota.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Just to be clear, you're saying that major manufacturers of 9012s have figured out how to make an infrared reflective capsule that is cylindrical in shape, unlike the earlier Toshiba designs with the spherical section? I remember a few posts about how difficult it was to align the filament and shape the glass to actually reflect IR back to the filament instead of a random point in space. It's interesting how they figured out how to achieve good IRR with a cylindrical capsule. I guess technology gets better over time?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    You did not need to ask your question "just to be clear". It's answered already in posts #2, 4, 5, and 7 of this thread, just not in the latest wording you've asked it in. You've seen the coating with your own two eyes, and it's been explained to you what it is, so what is the point of asking yet again? It's the equivalent to asking "What color is the sky?" followed by "So would you say the sky is blue?" followed by "I've seen posts saying the sky is blue. Is that correct?" followed by "There's a color known as 'blue', which I understand is between green and indigo on the spectrum. Is that the color of the sky, generally speaking?" followed by "Just to be clear: are you saying the sky is blue?". Please stop that. Ask thoughtful questions that haven't been answered already, instead.

    (HIR has been doable on a cylindrical envelope for awhile; these have been available for many years (compare non-HIR version here. Of course, those don't have to be aywhere near as optically precise as a headlight lamp.)

  12. #12

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Fair enough, let's try this: why did Toshiba develop a spherical capsule instead of an easier to make cylindrical capsule to reflect IR to the filament? I can't imagine that basic physics like angle of incidence has changed much from when Toshiba introduced spherical automotive HIRs to when Philips introduced cylindrical 9012s. Also, I may be wrong, but I can't imagine IR coatings having evolved much in the 2000s. In other words, I don't think that it was a lack of imagination that caused Toshiba to make difficult-to-produce spherical bulbs over cylindrical bulbs. I think it's fair to imagine that Toshiba did consider conventionally shaped capsules during development. So what is/are the technical reason(s) Toshiba pursued cylindrical capsules?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 11-01-2018 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Remove unnecessary whole-message quote

  13. #13

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    Fair enough, let's try this: why did Toshiba develop a spherical capsule instead of an easier to make cylindrical capsule to reflect IR to the filament?
    Because that's how they decided to do it...! I don't mean to seem flippant, but this question is much like "Why does a Honda Civic differ in the following ways from a Toyota Corolla?", or "Why does the tread and shoulder profile of this Goodyear tire look different from the tread and shoulder profile of that same-size Michelin?". Given a task, different engineers working with different givens are often going to arrive at a different solution. Givens might include things like "Here are the bulb components we already make", "Here are the capabilities of the machines we have", "Here are the patents we own/there are the patents we can't infringe", "Here is what marketing requires the bulb to look like", "Here is what our major customer wants", etc.

    I don't think that it was a lack of imagination that caused Toshiba to make difficult-to-produce spherical bulbs over cylindrical bulbs.
    Objection, your honor! Assuming facts not in evidence! Who says the Toshiba-pattern bulb is difficult to produce?

    I think it's fair to imagine that Toshiba did consider conventionally shaped capsules during development
    I think you're guessing. :-)

    (Also: please don't quote the entire message you're replying to.)

  14. #14

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    ! Assuming facts not in evidence! Who says the Toshiba-pattern bulb is difficult to produce?


    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...R2-scrutinized

    You mention that filament placement is super critical in the Toshiba design. And elsewhere you've noted that the Chinese Toshiba bulbs are crap, which implies that they are difficult to produce correctly.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do Sylvania 9012 Basics Have a Different Coating?

    Filament placement is crucial in all bulbs, and especially so in all HIR bulbs -- regardless of capsule shape.

    The early Chinese-made Toshiba bulbs were of very inconsistent quality, though that seems to have been cleaned up and much improved with time. I think it probably had more to do with the realities of Chinese production than with an inherent difficulty in producing a particular capsule shape.

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