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Thread: Are these test results valid?

  1. #1

    Default Are these test results valid?

    https://www.fаcebооk.com/36812718362...2567813844634/

    Is it true that at least some applications of the Koito H11 cannot accept H9 bulbs without exceeding glare limits? Why does the Osram have twice as much glare as the GE; what does the blue coating have to do with it?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 02-22-2019 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    cut off is not all there is. the site seems to be doing "tests" to sell their led bulbs. i would not take them seriously.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    The words cutoff and LED appear nowhere in this post...I don't think he's trying to sell anything.

  4. #4
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ls400 View Post
    Is it true that at least some applications of the Koito H11 cannot accept H9 bulbs without exceeding glare limits?
    They don't make just ONE H11 projector, so some vehicles may get a different projector.

    Why does the Osram have twice as much glare as the GE; what does the blue coating have to do with it?
    "But neither exceeded legal limit", they say.

    Then there's
    Automotive LED research
    the H9 comes out on top. But at the cost of added glare. In fact the H9 did exceed legal glare limit on the lower test point. Which means that you would have to aim the beam downward slightly, and that would result in less far distance lighting and increased foreground. I did not reaim the H9 and remeasure to see if there would still be improvements over the performance bulbs.
    No, you wouldn't have to aim them downward, rather you use the H11 bulb the projector was designed for.

    A legitimate automotive lighting (or testing) company wouldn't just have a Facebook and YouTube presence.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    If there are test results (or "test" "results" as the case may be) to consider, let's have a legitimate link. Facebook? C'mon.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    If there are test results (or "test" "results" as the case may be) to consider, let's have a legitimate link. Facebook? C'mon.
    The last time I started a discussion about a site with "test" "results" on various bulbs, there was a "legitimate" link. The guy behind the site (BulbFacts) had a dedicated website. But the guy also had no clue what he was talking about and admitted to such.

    This time, nope, there's no legitimate website, but at least to my uneducated self, he's saying the right things about automotive lighting at least some of the time (unlike the BulbFacts guy). Here's a copy/paste of an older Facebook post:

    Do you really see GLARE or not?


    I used to believe that headlamp glare was basically any excessive light that shines above the cutoff. That seems to be the belief for many others as well. But as I’ve learned, glare specifically directed towards the eyes of oncoming drivers is actually a much smaller window with a defined space and with a regulated maximum luminous intensity. In this post my goal is to bring awareness to this topic as it affects how people perceive glare after they have retrofitted their lights (or others) with replaceable LED/HID bulbs.
    As you can see, this guy demonstrates the gift of intellectual growth, and doesn't just stick fingers in his ears when confronted with facts . Anyway here's the rest of his post...

    In the automotive lighting research field, there has been much study over the decades of the effects of disability and discomfort glare. Including defining the actual visible space where this light meets the eyes. There are many variables that are taken into account such as driver eye height, vehicle height, etc. The most widely accepted angle and its geometry is *near* the area of 0.5 degrees UP, 3.5 degrees LEFT from a headlamps center point visualized with intersecting vertical and horizontal lines, as seen by the observer behind the headlamps shining. And because vehicles of course are always moving, the eye location moves during that trajectory. I have mapped out this glare window based on field measurements done by other researchers (Figure 1a).


    At 50 meters (164 ft) which is the distance to which glare is regularly measured at, the glare window is *roughly* a size of 3 feet high by 10 feet long.


    At 7.6 meters (25 ft) which is the common distance for headlamp aiming, the glare window is *roughly* a size of 5 inches by 18 inches.


    At 3 meters (10 ft) which is probably how far most people would park away from a garage wall to check out their new lights, the glare window is *roughly* a size of 2 inches by 7 inches.


    It's quite obvious that the closer the headlamp is to a screen or wall the smaller the window. You will not be able to visually assess the glare window at distances less than 10 feet because the beam has not fully formed. So anyone that thinks they can tell if a headlamp is glaring too much or glaring very little is mistaken. Figure 1b. illustrates this point because most people who would be facing toward the vehicle and with their backs to the wall would be positioned with their heads directly into the region that is NOT glare. Rather instead the glare area is much smaller and closer to the cutoff line.


    The next problem is our eyes. Despite them being one of our most important senses it’s also the worst reliably. The federal standard for glare has TWO luminous intensity test points. A lower and upper. The lower point has a maximum of 1000 candela. The upper point has a maximum of 700 candela. Would you be able to tell with your eyes if glare exceeded the maximum intensities, for example, by 25%? Of course not. The only way to properly know that glare is under the legal limit is by measuring with a high accuracy light meter AND at the correct location of the beam.


    I didn’t want to make this post super long but hopefully I didn’t over simplify this topic because glare is one of the most important safety aspects of headlighting. And there are a lot more technical aspects behind it. Don’t ever assume that glare from certain lighting upgrades are “ok” or “good enough” simply by only taking a glance at the beam shining on a wall or just standing in front of it.

    I'm no expert, but in this post at least, it sounds like he's saying the right things!

    ----

    Here's a link to a summary of his "test" "results":

    https://imgur.com/a/mX7kGcZ

    Last edited by Ls400; 02-22-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    I like what I see so far, for sure! Does he have a name? Any internet presence other than Facebook?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Are these test results valid?

    He only has a screenname, evo77, and he posts on another forum.

    He shares your disdain of Bulbfacts. If I didn't know any better I'd have thought he was you.

    I applaud Bulbfacts for compiling a repository for bulb information unfortunately I do not have confidence in the numbers posted on that website. His methods are unverified and highly unlikely to be useful. I say this because simply taking random low and high measurements within the beam, without knowing where those points fall on to the field of view, offer no value. This is why I was sure to point out in this test that the peak measurements for each bulb were situated at different angles. If I had reported just the peaks and declared the H9 winner for this alone it doesn't necessarily show the whole picture. Because as you can see the H9 peak is one full degree to the right from the H11 peak which just means its situated more towards the right shoulder than directly straight ahead of the road. Now with this being said, this doesn't take away the fact that the H9 does still provide more usable light in that entire seeing region versus the H11.
    Here are the test results I was talking about, except this time the link doesn't take you to Facebook but instead a forum:

    https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/for...ard-h11-and-h9

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