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Thread: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

  1. #1

    Default Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    With many... Many... Manyyyyyyyyyyyy oem led headlamps sporting obnoxious 6000k+ color temperature, i am curious what can actually be done about this.

    Replacing the chips with different/brighter chips is out of the question.

    But if a headlamp came with an onboard led that is a fairly common chip, and an appropriate replacement existed, a skilled individual could in theory replace a 6500k chip with say a 4500k chip with a much higher color rendering index.

    I have good eyesight, and am sensitive too overly blue lamps. I am afraid that with many modern vehicles moving towards obnoxiously blue ( and lower CRI ) lamps that i will have a rather limited choice of vehicles in the coming years. As i do a significant amount of night driving.

    If it is feasibly possible will this board support such a modification? My current understanding is that the lower cct higher cri LEDs sacrifice some output. I think this would become a case by case basis.

    I miss OEM Hids, at least you could replace them with a reasonable bulb with a reasonable color temperature.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* kj2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    Think the real option is, that car/headlight manufacturers start bringing two/three headlight options. So you can choose between 6000, 5500 or 4500 Kelvin.

  3. #3
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    I think it's time that the manufacturers offered a choice, now that warmer emitters are available. I find the current ice white headlight obnoxious and distracting.
    P
    I'm looking for an MD4 tube. Please PM if you have a spare. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ithout-Tailcap

  4. #4

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    I support replaceable led modules just like Halogen and HID headlights have had for decades. You could have different CCT modules for people who may like a higher or lower CCT than what the car came with. I personally don't notice an increased perception of glare with the higher Kelvin headlights, and actually much prefer them to yellowish light from halogens. As an added benefit it will save the customer money when their $2000 led headlight fries prematurely, and they don't have to buy a whole new headlight but rather just the bulb module..
    Last edited by Magio; 02-23-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    I agree magio. But the oem manufacturers dont want that. They want you too be stuck buying the whole 2000$ assembly.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    That's a shame because it'll just increase the demand for low quality aftermarket lamps.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I find the current ice white headlight obnoxious and distracting.
    P
    I don't mind it too mych if it's aimed properly! It seems to me that every Chevy truck out there with LEDs or HIDs in from the last 2-3 years have the lights aimed high enough to burn my brain though. Chevy only, oddly enough. I don't seem as many "that annoys me" lights from other manufacturers. Maybe it's someone in their headlamp mounting department who is compensating for something?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    I have a feeling that's it's just a small crowd of people, like those on this forum, who don't like the "whiter" lights that these newer cars come with. Every body that I have talked to in my day to day dealings all say that they like the "whiter" light better. And surprisingly many of them say that the color is much easier on their eyes and doesn't blind them as much. I don't think automakers would be pushing for higher CCTs if that's not what most customers wanted.

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadden View Post
    But if a headlamp came with an onboard led that is a fairly common chip, and an appropriate replacement e1xisted, a skilled individual could in theory replace a 6500k chip with say a 4500k chip with a much higher color rendering index.
    Due to the challenges of slotting a LED (high net intensity over a relatively large 2D area) into demanding optical situations dominated by pseudo 1-D (halogen filaments) or pseudo 0-D point sources (HID arcs), every OEM LED solution I've seen uses proprietary LEDs extremely specific to their optical system. X,Y,Z center point, dimensions relative to said center point, ~180° emissions characteristics all need to match and replacing these LEDs will be surgery relative to a halogen bulb swap since they're tightly integrated assemblies. Swapping with anything other than an exact match (save for CCT/CRI) will likely result in similarly-poor performance as the typical 'PnP' HID/LED "kit" on halogen lamp assemblies with bad light distribution, glare, and the contamination/premature failure typical of most "retrofits" since you opened up a sealed assembly.

    High CRI and lower CCTs may please certain slices of the market, but these are compliance solutions: the cold cold >5000K OEM LEDs are white/efficient enough to meet regulations, CRI need only be "good enough" for safety (not sure if it's even called out in the regulations), and for more than two decades much of the market has associated high CCTs with more expensive/desirable vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadden View Post
    I have good eyesight, and am sensitive too overly blue lamps. I am afraid that with many modern vehicles moving towards obnoxiously blue ( and lower CRI ) lamps that i will have a rather limited choice of vehicles in the coming years. As i do a significant amount of night driving.
    Halogens look to be sticking around - they're presently far cheaper to implement. In another decade I expect the choices to be halogen on the lower end and LED on the high end. As the tech matures and the market finds workable optical solutions there may well be a shift away from >5000K as semistandard automotive headlamp LED formfactors emerge as winners and the demand for electrical efficiency becomes less important.

    But that's just speculation on my part as an outside observer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadden View Post
    If it is feasibly possible will this board support such a modification? My current understanding is that the lower cct higher cri LEDs sacrifice some output. I think this would become a case by case basis.
    As I alluded to above, such modifications are ill-advised and likely to result in poor-performing - thus unsafe - and markedly less-reliable results. Even if you find an exact match for the LED chip(s) you still need to integrate them with the design in a matching fashion - which means a matching MCPCB assuming they live on a standalone slug or performing SMD de-solder/re-solder operations if the LEDs live on a shared board of some sort.

    Low CCT/high CRI typically has significant performance penalties relative to high CCT/low CRI. It's not like it's half the lumens but it's still enough that it might hurt reaction times hurdling along a road at night at highway speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    I support replaceable led modules just like Halogen and HID headlights have had for decades. You could have different CCT modules for people who may like a higher or lower CCT than what the car came with. I personally don't notice an increased perception of glare with the higher Kelvin headlights, and actually much prefer them to yellowish light from halogens. As an added benefit it will save the customer money when their $2000 led headlight fries prematurely, and they don't have to buy a whole new headlight but rather just the bulb module..
    It's just as likely that some other component in the tightly-integrated system fails (power supply, fans, high/low shield in a BiLED system) as it is the LED that fails. If the LED fails, it's so well integrated that replacing it in a reliable fashion is likely to be a depot service situation as opposed to a bulb swap.

    At some point we might see acceptable 'PnP' LED bulbs that work in halogen optics which will perhaps cost a bit more than a set of HID bulbs but markedly less than the ~$1000 per side that OEMs are charging for LED headlamps.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  10. #10

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    I have dissected a large number of headlights and realize how integrated the components can be. I would like to see the industry move in the direction Ford has with the F150s headlights. The led module can be replaced for about a 1/5 of the cost of the entire headlamp assembly.

    I also think the other LED modules in the headlamp should be replaceable too. For example a very large number of Accords in the 16-17 have an issue with the DRLs failing prematurely. It's a very well known problem that Honda has not recalled. If you are out of warranty, the only way to fix it is to buy a whole new lamp assembly which can cost nearly a grand. In my case my car is barely 2 years old and I'm almost out of warranty mileage wise. The headlamps still look new. If my DRLs fail when I'm out of warranty it would make a lot more sense to be able to buy a new module and replace it rather than buying a very expensive headlight and throwing an otherwise perfectly good headlight away all over one tiny little bulb.
    Last edited by Magio; 02-24-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Oem Led Headlamps and CCT/Kelvin

    That's not a direction the industry's moving toward, Magio, it's a direction the industry is moving away from (and it wasn't ever common to begin with). The replaceable LED module was one of the first things to go away with the first redesign of that Ford headlamp you have in mind.

    As for taking a headlamp apart and replacing its LEDs with those having a different CCT and/or CRI: this idea doesn't make it out of the starting gate. The level of plaement precision required is far higher than can be achieved without very specialized, very large, very expensive automatic equipment. There is no such thing as "good enough" here.

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