LS high domes or LED`s with teeth
- Thread starter danno
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Well, they have a higher dome shape (the led itself, the dementions on the outside are the same (optics included model, taller with no optics)...they are also called "Lambertian" (I don`t have a clue)...not flat like the low dome or "batwing"...they have a "typical forward voltage" of 2.95 compared to the low dome batwings at 2.85...so they like .10 volts more to be at their happy max. But still draw the same ma at their max rating (350ma)...so a lot more light for no increase in power use.
I beleive they still need good heat sinks to run anywhere near max...the red-orange being the brightest of the bunch.
They do not make a white, blue, green high dome...yet.
www.lumileds.com
www.luxeon.com
If Gransee would put these in a Arc...and if you could live with amber or red-orange colors...it would smoke a Surefire E-1 and run twice as long on one 123 batt...dis is good
I beleive they still need good heat sinks to run anywhere near max...the red-orange being the brightest of the bunch.
They do not make a white, blue, green high dome...yet.
www.lumileds.com
www.luxeon.com
If Gransee would put these in a Arc...and if you could live with amber or red-orange colors...it would smoke a Surefire E-1 and run twice as long on one 123 batt...dis is good
Chris M.
Flashlight Enthusiast
Lambertian
From what I understand, that refers to the distribution of light output of the bare LED. Not a textbook definition, just out of my fuzzy brain, but Lambertian distribution is even all-round light radiating from a point source, that being- at all angles at an identical distance, its intensity is the same.
The current LSs are not this way, their "batwing" light output is a little dimmer in the centre on-axis, peaking further off-axis, then dropping off again. Basically like a brighter ring of light round a slightly dimmer centre.
I believe those Lambertian high-dome Luxeons use a slightly more efficient die too- hence the different ratings and greater overall lumen output.
I`d like to see them too if at all possible
. And the newer generation whites as well- that use a triphosphor coating (like compact flourescent lamps) instead of the currently used yellow phosphor- the result, a purer light and better colour rendition. Those, apparently, are avaliable to OEMs (like Arc Flashlight
), or will be very soon. Joe Public will have to wait till early next year to get them directly.
From what I understand, that refers to the distribution of light output of the bare LED. Not a textbook definition, just out of my fuzzy brain, but Lambertian distribution is even all-round light radiating from a point source, that being- at all angles at an identical distance, its intensity is the same.
The current LSs are not this way, their "batwing" light output is a little dimmer in the centre on-axis, peaking further off-axis, then dropping off again. Basically like a brighter ring of light round a slightly dimmer centre.
I believe those Lambertian high-dome Luxeons use a slightly more efficient die too- hence the different ratings and greater overall lumen output.
I`d like to see them too if at all possible
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
i wonder how much more spotty that would make the light
myself i wouldnt mind finding different degrees of the top optics
if they would stick with ONE style then throw varying optics on that one style
seems thay could keep Design costs down and concentrate on 2 things
making the single design bigger & better and lower in power.
Pumping out quantities of the stuff to pay for it all
sounds like a plan, now where is my diversment of stock options so i can get on the board
myself i wouldnt mind finding different degrees of the top optics
if they would stick with ONE style then throw varying optics on that one style
seems thay could keep Design costs down and concentrate on 2 things
making the single design bigger & better and lower in power.
Pumping out quantities of the stuff to pay for it all
sounds like a plan, now where is my diversment of stock options so i can get on the board
Update: From "OEM Guide" pg. 21...the WHITE will be available in the high dome "Lambertian" at the end of 2001.
The current increase in light output from the low dome to high dome is 76%~80%...if the white is in keeping with this it should have an output of...31.68 lumen to 32.4 lumen...compared to the 18 lumen rating we have now...and you can kiss your E-1`s goodbye even if run way under powered...I assume these will work their way into the Arc`s when avalible in 3 or 4 months.
Ken...make that...Bad.
The current increase in light output from the low dome to high dome is 76%~80%...if the white is in keeping with this it should have an output of...31.68 lumen to 32.4 lumen...compared to the 18 lumen rating we have now...and you can kiss your E-1`s goodbye even if run way under powered...I assume these will work their way into the Arc`s when avalible in 3 or 4 months.
Ken...make that...Bad.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yes, I have had 3-4 of the lambertian samples here for awhile. Haven't got around to testing them though. When I orginally got the samples, no production was available. Now they have red and amber. The whites will be awhile. Since they are supposed to be drop-in compatible with the batwings I have now, we would like to use the lambertian ambers and red in the LS. Was supposed to be a suprise though. Here's some pics:
Luxeon Star, Amber Color, Lambertian pattern
Amber Lambertian on left, cyan batwing middle, amber batwing with optics right.
The Lambertian draws less current at the same voltage suggesting either a die size difference or efficiency improvement (or both). I won't spec them for the Arc-LS until I can confirm that we can get them in quantity. Still working that angle...
Like Craig, Chris and Brock, the manufacturer's tell us about upcoming products but won't let us say anything until the cat's out of the bag. I will say this, next year LEDs are going to be... Uh. Bright.
Peter Gransee
Luxeon Star, Amber Color, Lambertian pattern
Amber Lambertian on left, cyan batwing middle, amber batwing with optics right.
The Lambertian draws less current at the same voltage suggesting either a die size difference or efficiency improvement (or both). I won't spec them for the Arc-LS until I can confirm that we can get them in quantity. Still working that angle...
Like Craig, Chris and Brock, the manufacturer's tell us about upcoming products but won't let us say anything until the cat's out of the bag. I will say this, next year LEDs are going to be... Uh. Bright.
Peter Gransee
The_LED_Museum
*Retired*
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
Like Craig, Chris and Brock, the manufacturer's tell us about upcoming products but won't let us say anything until the cat's out of the bag<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can almost hear that poor kitty pawing through the 2.0 mil plastic from the Hefty (or Glad) bag it's in. It's making these raspy, gasping, athsmatic noises like it's choking on its own bladder. Please, somebody get out their Tektite Knife-Lite and let the kitty out!!!
I, for one, can't wait to see an LS LED with the new die configuration.
As if I'm not already blown clean out of the water by the LS proto.
Like Craig, Chris and Brock, the manufacturer's tell us about upcoming products but won't let us say anything until the cat's out of the bag<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can almost hear that poor kitty pawing through the 2.0 mil plastic from the Hefty (or Glad) bag it's in. It's making these raspy, gasping, athsmatic noises like it's choking on its own bladder. Please, somebody get out their Tektite Knife-Lite and let the kitty out!!!
I, for one, can't wait to see an LS LED with the new die configuration.
As if I'm not already blown clean out of the water by the LS proto.
According to Future electronics the high domes are avalible now...they want $16, even though thier cataloge says $22...minunmum order is one...ground shipping is $7 (talk about a rip off). I tried to get a hold of Lumileds at their toll free line 1-877-298-9455 to confirm, but no answer.
These are rated much higher than the low domes we are playing with...
red-orange- available in high dome only, 55 lumen...5 less than a SureFire E-2
Makes me feel all warm and cozy inside...like a shot of fine bourbon...where`s my cigar?
red- low dome 25 lumen...high dome 44 lumen
amber- low dome 20 lumen...high dome 36
re-orange high dome (with optics) LXHL-NH94
red high dome (with optics) LXHL-ND94
amber high dome (with optics) LXHL-NL94
All ratings at 2.95 volts at 350ma
Recommendation:...get them...no step-ups, resistors, dancing bears needed, just a 3 volt 123 or 2 AA or 2 (insert favorite batts here)...stop playing with wimpy low domes...keep your sunglasses handy.
Means:...grobbeling, begging, pestering and doing other things to make Gransee miserable unless he makes them available to us is the suggested course of action.
Bad
www.luxeon.com
www.lumileds.com
These are rated much higher than the low domes we are playing with...
red-orange- available in high dome only, 55 lumen...5 less than a SureFire E-2
red- low dome 25 lumen...high dome 44 lumen
amber- low dome 20 lumen...high dome 36
re-orange high dome (with optics) LXHL-NH94
red high dome (with optics) LXHL-ND94
amber high dome (with optics) LXHL-NL94
All ratings at 2.95 volts at 350ma
Recommendation:...get them...no step-ups, resistors, dancing bears needed, just a 3 volt 123 or 2 AA or 2 (insert favorite batts here)...stop playing with wimpy low domes...keep your sunglasses handy.
Means:...grobbeling, begging, pestering and doing other things to make Gransee miserable unless he makes them available to us is the suggested course of action.
Bad
www.luxeon.com
www.lumileds.com
The tough choice I must make soon is...should I hold off on getting an Arc LS 4 months untill the high dome whites are out. That would mean losing my chance for a serial numbered one...
What I wish I could do is get a red-orange or amber high dome now and a white high dome later...but my wallet says that won`t happen...
I don`t suppose I could buy a serial numbered body now and let it rest in the Arc company`s store room untill the high dome whites are out?
Bad
What I wish I could do is get a red-orange or amber high dome now and a white high dome later...but my wallet says that won`t happen...
I don`t suppose I could buy a serial numbered body now and let it rest in the Arc company`s store room untill the high dome whites are out?
Bad
PeLu
Flashlight Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badbeam:
All ratings at 2.95 volts at 350ma
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
According to my informations the amber ones are rated for 250mA, all the other ones for 350mA. Is that still correct?
All ratings at 2.95 volts at 350ma
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
According to my informations the amber ones are rated for 250mA, all the other ones for 350mA. Is that still correct?
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
could it be? the...silence...of...the...lambertians..????
goodnight evrybody...
The_LED_Museum
*Retired*
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
According to my informations the amber ones are rated for 250mA, all the other ones for 350mA. Is that still correct?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I had spec sheets on all of these things.
They were all lost in an earthquake.
I have since replaced them all - but they were buried under a flurry of incomings... let me see if I can find them and give you the answer you seek... (searching...)
(searching... 20 minutes later)...
(searching... 40 minutes later)...
(searching... 90 minutes later)...
well that's f***ing crappy... two hours and the $*&#$*@^ documentation has yet to be found...
Dammit, dammit, dammit... I want to snap a 3-wood over my knee and chuck the $*%&# thing in the nearest water hazard...
I guess I'll have to look for this stuff overnight and then post again in the morning if I find it.
According to my informations the amber ones are rated for 250mA, all the other ones for 350mA. Is that still correct?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I had spec sheets on all of these things.
They were all lost in an earthquake.
I have since replaced them all - but they were buried under a flurry of incomings... let me see if I can find them and give you the answer you seek... (searching...)
(searching... 20 minutes later)...
(searching... 40 minutes later)...
(searching... 90 minutes later)...
well that's f***ing crappy... two hours and the $*&#$*@^ documentation has yet to be found...
Dammit, dammit, dammit... I want to snap a 3-wood over my knee and chuck the $*%&# thing in the nearest water hazard...
I guess I'll have to look for this stuff overnight and then post again in the morning if I find it.
Is this the data sheet you were looking for? http://www.luxeon.com/LuxeonStarDatasheet.pdf
PeLu
Flashlight Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by danno:
Is this the data sheet you were looking for? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This one is from May, there are newer datasheets (on paper).
BTW, a person working at Phillips uses the amber one as a main caving light for demanding trips. Getting some 50-60lm/W at 250mA.
Is this the data sheet you were looking for? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This one is from May, there are newer datasheets (on paper).
BTW, a person working at Phillips uses the amber one as a main caving light for demanding trips. Getting some 50-60lm/W at 250mA.
I had half a dozen LS to play with. The Amber is the most useful light I have seen in some time. I just finished a proto (
) and I am going to buy a new mounting case today. I am not driving it to the wall either! It is a strange phenomemom. The white is more like a flashlight, but I actually seem to observe more easily with the amber. IMHO
( It goes without saying that you don't want to throw together some cat5 cabling using this color )
( It goes without saying that you don't want to throw together some cat5 cabling using this color )
Hi Ken, do you have the 20 lumen low dome or the 36 lumen high dome amber? Have you done any run time test on it? Are you useing a resistor? What voltage are you running it at? Do you have one of the 55 lumen red-orange?
---------------------------------------------
One possible advantge is the more efficent high domes should produce the same light output at a lower power level resulting in less HEAT to contend with.
Another advantage is it should be able to run on a lower power step-up (white) resulting in a longer run time with the same or better lumen output.
Is a step-up even usefull in the amber LS`s given their volt requirments or is it a waste of batt power? Silvirons test seem to indicate a long and bright burn time without one, although he has yet to test an amber.
It seems to me that a small resistor or better heatsink and no resistor would be the way to go with the amber color...the step-up serving only to reduce the initial brightness without improving the total run time (actually shortening the run time).
Has anyone actually done a comparison test to determine whether this is true or not?
I am thinking about getting the high dome amber Arc LS now (assuming the Arc company can get and decides to use them) and getting a high dome white Arc later...when their out.
I have a amber spot light that shines up on the ceiling in my living room and it`s nice, easy to see with...warm and lights the room very well...makes my wife look younger... saves money as I don`t need as many viagra pills.
Thanks, Bad
---------------------------------------------
One possible advantge is the more efficent high domes should produce the same light output at a lower power level resulting in less HEAT to contend with.
Another advantage is it should be able to run on a lower power step-up (white) resulting in a longer run time with the same or better lumen output.
Is a step-up even usefull in the amber LS`s given their volt requirments or is it a waste of batt power? Silvirons test seem to indicate a long and bright burn time without one, although he has yet to test an amber.
It seems to me that a small resistor or better heatsink and no resistor would be the way to go with the amber color...the step-up serving only to reduce the initial brightness without improving the total run time (actually shortening the run time).
Has anyone actually done a comparison test to determine whether this is true or not?
I am thinking about getting the high dome amber Arc LS now (assuming the Arc company can get and decides to use them) and getting a high dome white Arc later...when their out.
I have a amber spot light that shines up on the ceiling in my living room and it`s nice, easy to see with...warm and lights the room very well...makes my wife look younger... saves money as I don`t need as many viagra pills.
Thanks, Bad
I have high dome.
I had a conversation with a Canadian LumiLed engineer and we swapped some information....mostly one way...from him
. He showed interest, and we had a discussion about the 2621. I'm going with it as well as the SatCure to drive it.
I have not totally decided on the power. I go back and forth. I am taking my daughter on an outing 100 miles to Radio Shack in a few minutes
. I am going to look for heat sinks and project boxes. I really like the Amber LS.
=================
I am running it at 300-310 ma and around 3-3.5 volts. I am using the 2621 as it is pulsed and IF I read the doc correctly, it will allow me to run a little more current through it without damage. I have not run any balls to the wall output tests as I don't want to mess up the amber LS. I will not do that in real life. I suppose if I had some to throw away, I might. I did sacrifice one of the white LSHL's, however. I took off the optics etc. etc. down to the bare board to see if I could get along with the reduced light output. NO WAY. They must use some optical grade plastic or something as it really makes it brighter. That is my biggest problem now ....trying to mount it with that chunk of lens....and a heat sink and not have a boat anchor..LOL
I had a conversation with a Canadian LumiLed engineer and we swapped some information....mostly one way...from him
I have not totally decided on the power. I go back and forth. I am taking my daughter on an outing 100 miles to Radio Shack in a few minutes
=================
I am running it at 300-310 ma and around 3-3.5 volts. I am using the 2621 as it is pulsed and IF I read the doc correctly, it will allow me to run a little more current through it without damage. I have not run any balls to the wall output tests as I don't want to mess up the amber LS. I will not do that in real life. I suppose if I had some to throw away, I might. I did sacrifice one of the white LSHL's, however. I took off the optics etc. etc. down to the bare board to see if I could get along with the reduced light output. NO WAY. They must use some optical grade plastic or something as it really makes it brighter. That is my biggest problem now ....trying to mount it with that chunk of lens....and a heat sink and not have a boat anchor..LOL
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badbeam:
[QB]I took the refector/lens out and was surprised the back of the reflector is clear...no chrome/no white..QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In school I worked for an eye surgeon and ran the dispensary. I have forgotten most of what I used to know about lenses. Here is my guess without throwing around words I no longer remember what they mean...angle of incidence etc etc..... The reflector must have had some major thought go into its development. It seems to take ALL stray light and focus/reflect it forward. It also looks to be made of a high grade polycarb. You can pop these things out for peanuts once you do the initial design. This is just an educated guess. I was really sad that I have to use the lens as it it such a space hog...HUGE. I still am trying to figure out a graceful way to mount it.
[QB]I took the refector/lens out and was surprised the back of the reflector is clear...no chrome/no white..QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In school I worked for an eye surgeon and ran the dispensary. I have forgotten most of what I used to know about lenses. Here is my guess without throwing around words I no longer remember what they mean...angle of incidence etc etc..... The reflector must have had some major thought go into its development. It seems to take ALL stray light and focus/reflect it forward. It also looks to be made of a high grade polycarb. You can pop these things out for peanuts once you do the initial design. This is just an educated guess. I was really sad that I have to use the lens as it it such a space hog...HUGE. I still am trying to figure out a graceful way to mount it.
I must agree the lens really does a great job...but I still wonder if it would be brighter if the barrel area was white or chromed (not the back of the lens, just the inside barrel area) maybe just filling it with white tissue paper? What do you think? Waste of time?
