Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking?

Hi folks! Very interesting thread on water storage, so I thought I'd ask my own preparedness question: cooking when the power fails. I live in the Rockies, and have an electric stove. Although the electricity is pretty stable, if it goes out, it can be out for days.

Right now I use a propane campstove, which is OK, but I don't really like having propane tanks around in an apartment - just asking for trouble. What are my options?

I've been thinking about camp stoves that burn other fuels, like alcohol or kerosene, or perhaps charcoal, but there are a lot of issues like carbon monoxide emissions which make them unsuitable for indoors use.

Any ideas? What do you use?

coleman makes one that runs on gasoline but gas is very very dangereos to plus carbon monixede will be a factor to unless ya cook outside.maybe sterno

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

If your stove runs on those small (1 qt) propane bottles, that doesn't seem so scary. They won't explode or anything. Hardware stores have dozens of those things on their shelves most of the time.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

Trangia, makes a little alcohol stove that can be used in-side safely. It should boil a liter of water in about six minutes.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

If you shop around at camping/mountaineering suppliers you will find multi fuel burning stoves. They rock in emergencies!

All fuel filters I've found are inappropriate as they are a hazzard to store after they have been used even once. I made a filter that removes water from fuel out of a common chamois and a funnel from a hardware store. After filtering fuel it can be washed in soap an water, dried and then stored safely, without any fumes.

If you live in an apartment and you must store your fuel in your abode, give some careful thought to where you put it. The ideal place would be one in which it is stored as far as possible from any exit or window that you may want to be able to use as an exit in an emergency. Don't put it anywhere where it would block egress if it were on fire.

Finally, an emergency water supply will greatly conserve fuel in an emergency because you won't have to burn any of your precious fuel to boil water. In emergencies, an appropriately sized pressure cooker can save a great deal of fuel by enabling you to stockpile easy to store and cook dried staples like rice, beans, etc. I've also put up disposable cups and bowls for emergencies as it eases water/fuel demands in the crunch. In an emergency situation you'll be doing things in ways that you are probably not accustomed to doing them, so a good fire extinguisher would probably be prudent, also.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

Almost forgot: Carbon monoxide isn't an issue if you just crack a window each time you fire up the stove. I worry more about fire.

On boats, they use alcohol fueled stoves as it is much easier to extinguish an alcohol fire with water (most fuel fires spread with water).

Also, you need food to cook... I have not bought any #10 cans myself yet, but Mountain House seems to be a good place for freeze dried food. The foil pouches keep for 5 years, the #10 cans store for 30+ years.

-Bill

Also, if you are going to need to slow cook beans and stuff--instead of a pressure cooker, you can look at thermos type slow cookers where you just boil the food and place the pot in a large thermos for a few hours. Pretty popular in the Asian community (look in your local Asian markets to see what they look like).

-Bill

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

[ QUOTE ]
sloegin said:
Trangia, makes a little alcohol stove that can be used in-side safely. It should boil a liter of water in about six minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

They make 3 main kinds: The "westwind" type with no winscreen, etc. Useless in the wind, but I've used it indoors sucessfully. I also have the model "27" which is the 1 to 2 man stove. Comes with burner, windscreen, 3 pans, costs about $60. Can get nonstick, stainless (actually doussal), titanium, whatever. My absolute alltime favorite stove. Always works, rocks in wind, stable, silent. The ONLY stove that has NEVER let me down. The 3rd is the "25" model, which is just a larger version of it. I don't have that one.

I've also used an MSR pocket rocket which is a butane canister stove. Excellent indoors, and simmers nicely. Just for small pans, though.

I wouldn't use a "bomb" type pressurized stove indoors. Apart from CO, they can flare up and start a fire if left unattended. I once had a crowd gather around my Primus varifuel, after I left it on a picnic table for a couple of minutes to go the bathroom. Flames were shooting out of it. I was able to just shut it off, though. I also fired it up in my kitchen once after cleaning it. I somehow forgot to put the flamespreader back in, and it shot a narrow flame up to the ceiling. I was a real idiot back then. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

I'd stick with the propane. I consider those 1 lb containers to be an acceptably low storage risk. They are readily available and the convenience of use cannot be beat.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I really need to examine the alcohol stove option in more detail - I'm a lot more comfortable with liquid fuel than pressureised cannisters at the end of the day ;-)

I'll post back when I've done a bit more research!

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

I think propane cannisters are a lot safer than a gasoline (e.g. MSR multi-fuel) stove. The propane just isn't that energetic. It's the same stuff your normal kitchen range burns. As for CO, cook outside if you can, or near a window.

The Trangia stove is a clever design but output is kind of low, so cooking anything will take longer than with a more powerful stove. There's lots of web pages on how to make Trangia-like stoves by punching a few holes in a tuna fish can. I keep meaning to get around to that.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

Here's a site with lots of information on homemade Stoves
I think some of you will find it interesting.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

[ QUOTE ]
paulr:
I think propane cannisters are a lot safer than a gasoline (e.g. MSR multi-fuel) stove. The propane just isn't that energetic. It's the same stuff your normal kitchen range burns. As for CO, cook outside if you can, or near a window.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is all true. Having said that, given the premise, the multi-fuel stoves are still more appropriate for emergencies. The additional hazards associated with multi-fuel stoves are more than offset by their versitility. That is why these stoves exist. Bicycles are much less dangerous than automobiles but, in most of the Western world we accept the added danger and complexity that comes with cars because they are more versatile and convenient. I have used many different stoves with energetic fuels in the last 40+ years without incident. As long as one follows a few simple rules about storage and usage they will deliver reliable service in far more varied situations than any propane stove. Nothing is fool-proof. There are risks involved in everything. Emergencies are inherently dangerous. Even a propane stove cooks with an open flame. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif The premise is that it is an emergency. The very nature of an emergency is uncertainty. Anything that gives you more options instead of less options in an emergency is good.

Let me give you a concrete example of a situation where a multi-fuel rig is actually SAFER than a propane stove. A six week disruption of the social order is an event which could be caused in any part of the States for a any number of reasons. Some are prepared for emergencies of greater duration than six weeks. Many folks' emergency plans account for a six week disruption of normal services/distribution. Where I live the general consensus is that a really bad huricane could cause this type of six week disruption here. If I opted for a propane rig, in order to prepare for this disaster I would have to buy all of the propane that I ever thought I would possibly need for an emergency and I would have to try to find a safe place to store it in my apartment, in perpetuity. It would be unrealistic to assume that I would be able to resupply my propane during an emergency of intermediate or long term.

On the other hand, I can store a multi-fuel stove, with NO fuel whatsoever, under my bed forever if I choose, with NO explosion or fire hazard. Yet, in an emergency I can round up a huge amount of fuel(s) for a multi-fuel stove. Also, bear in mind that all who mentioned that they are concerned about the volatility of these fuels -- in fact everyone reading this -- probably already has equally flamable/explosive chemicals under their kitchen sinks at this moment. One difference is that firemen know that the stuff under your sink is dangerous -- you would have to be there and tell them the quantity and location of your stored propane to reduce the threat it would pose to them in the event of a fire.

A blanket statement that multi-fuel stoves are more dangerous would be an overgeneralization. Yes, they should be fueled outside. Yes, they should not be operated without good ventilation. (crack a window) No, they should never be fueled on the tailgate of a pickup truck that has a bed-liner installed. Like an automobile, or a firearm, their use requires a knowledgeable, rational approach -- or bad things can happen. On the other hand multi-fuel rigs are far safer to store in your house/apartment without fuel than any propane rig in your house stored with all of the fuel that you think that you will ever possibly need for an emergency of unknown duration.

The risks associated with multi-fuel stoves are manageable. The added utility is unparalleled in an emergency.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

Sub_Umbra,

I agree with you about the versatility of liquid fuel stoves. I also agree with you about the possibility of not being able to obtain propane in a more hard core survival scenario.

If one is concerned about that (and it's a reasonable thing to be concerned about, since a stove is a very fundamental tool of survival) I would recommend having more than one type of stove. That way you can span a wider range of possibilities: from grilling a steak to heating water to cook some wheat in a thermos. Just like flashlights, one stove won't do it all.

One other thing: If you are using a stove for emergencies, make sure you are experienced in using it. Stoves can be quite touchy - much more so than most other types of equipment. Try to incorporate it into your (maybe not daily) but weekly or monthly routine. If you are going hard core, I would buy and use each and every one of the major types of stoves, and learn for yourself. That's how I learned, and the extra expense was worth every penny. Plan on giving yourself atleast a year for that.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

[ QUOTE ]
Lux Luthor:
I would recommend having more than one type of stove. That way you can span a wider range of possibilities: from grilling a steak to heating water to cook some wheat in a thermos. Just like flashlights, one stove won't do it all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.
I really only have room for one.

I think that the best approach might also be to integrate your normal equipment/activities into your preparedness. If I lived out in the boonies or even the suburbs I think it would be hidiously cool to have a big-ol propane bar-b-que grill that could do superb double-duty in an emergency. Folks that have BBQs already know how to run them -- and that's one less accident to happen. You could even wheel it into the garage for more low-profile cooking in an emergency (with the window open and the big door(s) shut).

I would love that. An extra pig of propane outside would be safe and would not look out of place.

The point you alluded to about having experience with your equipment is well taken. The improvisational nature of emergencies dictates that you should be as familiar as possible with what you are doing -- because there will still be many things that you will have to figure out and accomplish that you had not thought about.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

I was just looking over my posts on this thread and they read kinda...er, extreme. Sorry if my true self comes across too strongly.

This is a subject I'm kind of passionate about. While I havn't spent my whole life out in the boonies, I have spent more time away from phones, running water, sewer lines, and centralized electricity than any of my friends. This has kind of shaped my thinking.

It also occurs to me that in any kind of emergency, CPFers as a demographic, would unquestionably do far better for themselves and their loved ones than the general public would.

Also, in trying to put this into perspective, I realize that anyone anywhere who has it together enough to think about and buy a stove -- any kind of stove -- for emergencies is not at all on the same level with the general public.

Just one of the things that makes CPF so interesting to me.

Forgive me if I get too enthusiastic and the tone of my posts drifts a bit.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

The more serious types of emergency preparedness/survival discussions have come up a number of times on CPF. I'm always up for it, and have plenty left to learn, although I agree it's possible to take a thread off track with it. In this case, I only think it would have been out of place if the original poster was asking about something like a backyard grill (there's actually another thread on that at the moment). From his first post, it appears he was atleast interested in a moderate level of discussion (he mentions water storage, living in the Rockies, power going out for days, etc.). Whether he is considering planning for long term survival, only he can answer.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

I think if there's a 6-week emergency, 6 weeks of fuel will be useless unless you have 6 weeks of food to cook with it, and most people don't have nearly that much around the house. General emergency planning advice has been to have 72 hours worth of stuff on hand. After that long, there will either be relief supplies in one form or another, or else things will be so bad that cooking will be unimportant.

Re: Ok, we did water storage... what about cooking

For what it's worth, I do actually stockpile a pretty sizable food store - was around 2 person-years right after September 11th, when it was all too imaginable we might get stuck up here for most of a winter if something horribly happened like bioterror or a nuke. I'm a good deal less prepared now but planning on stocking up over the summer in case we see some attempt to attack the American election in the same way the Spanish election was attacked.

That said, long-plan cooking is probably only feasible on wood or gasoline. My standing plan for over-the-winter cooking is wood on the back porch ;-)

Interesting, though, interesting. I should really do some thinking about all of this, particularly the multi-fuel stoves.