Boosted Thor ~3X output

Cell Voltage after charging, no load, 13.28V

Cell Voltage under load (light turned on), 12.34V and dropping immediately under load, about 2mV per second.

Flashlight current 6.63A and dropping 0.03A per second.

Delivered bulb voltage, 11.55V at the bulb base, measured on the bulb terminals.

Soda Lime float glass protective lens (common green window glass- 89% optical transmission for typical types)
Glass Protective lens diameter is 7.624 inches (193.65mm) Thickeness is 0.125".

Internal battery drop (from no load to full load):
13.28-12.34= 0.94 V
Current draw 6.63A


Power out of the battery:
12.34V * 6.63A = 81.8142 Watts

Actual power delivered to the bulb:
11.55V * 6.63A= 76.5765 Watts

Power lost in wires, terminals, switches:
81.8142 - 76.5765 = 5.2377 Watts

Efficiency loss due to wires, terminals, switches:
6.4 %

Efficiency loss due to window glass lens vs. AR coated borofloat: About 8-9%

As near as I can measure, the efficiency of the reflector coating is 83%, thus a loss of 15% as compared with double oxide overcoated, vacuum silver sputter, vacuum aluminum undercoat sputter, over polished aluminum reflector which is 98% visible reflective.

6.4% + 8% + 15%= 29.4% overall loss in efficiency due to optical and electrical issues.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Great info there Jar !
Seems fairly well made, but alot of loss there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Although, I wouldnt be surprised if you find that with alot of lights, especially spotlights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Seems that reflector is the big problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif How did you find out the loss?

BTW, both your pics are the same.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

I took an LED and a silicon eye photodiode (human eye response corrected, see infineon/osram/siemens) and put each of them at a 45 degree angle from the perpandicular to the surface (90 from each other), to simulate light from the bulb doing a 90 off the reflector at the "sweet" spot.

Put a lens in front of the Nichia LED and adjusted the lens such that it forms the tightest beam at a far distance. Then I put a mask over the LED to make a pinhole (to minimize the effect of curved surfaces).

Then I have a reference sample of double oxide overcoated, vacuum silver sputter, vacuum aluminum undercoat sputter, over polished aluminum sheet to utilize as a reference, which has been very accurately measured at 98%.144

At measurement time, I take a reading off the reference sample, add 1.856% to get my 100% number, then measure the sample.

Technically this method will be off if the surface isn't perfectly smooth, but it gives you a good starting point for comparision. But, how much it is off from perfectly smooth can be seen by looking at the tissue paper at the photo diode location. Since I couldn't guage any difference, it is in my mind, flat enough to give a decent reading.

If anything, the Thor reflector is slightly focusing the light with this setup, which helps to artificially raise the efficiency. I pulled the photodiode out, and put a piece of tissue paper there, and it is very difficult to tell any difference in the reflected dot size. I am making the measurement near the edge of the reflector, where it is rather flat, anyhow. I make the measurements in the dark.


Why would you feel the reflector should be any better? 89-70 % actual reflection efficiency is typical for reflectors, and goes up to 93% for premium coatings (which I haven't seen used in a flashlight yet), and can get up in the 98% range for engineered scientific type coatings (think big dollars). Additionally, there is additional considerations besides just the reflection numbers, as the angle of incidence also affects the number.


Even vacuum sputtered pure aluminum is only about 93%, and rapidly degrades in the presence of air...

Vacuum sputtered pure silver is around 98%, and also degrades in the presence of air...

They do make overcoating materials, but most degrade the reflection efficiencies.

There are high cost dielectric overcoats that can significantly slow down the degredation, and in some cases, enhance the reflectivity.


In fact, there is a reflector made from nothing more than plastic (no reflective material) made by 3M, under their Vikuiti division, called Vikuiti Enhanced Specular Reflector (ESR).

Vikuiti Enhanced Specular Reflector film is a non-metallic specular reflector film with over 98.5% reflectivity. It is comprised of over 300 layers of polymer film. This product, uses thereof, or its manufacture may be covered by one or more of the following U.S. patents: 5094788, 5122905, 5269995, 5389324, 5882774, 5976424, 6080467, 6088163, 6101032, 6117530, 6157490, 6208466, 6210785, 6296927.

3M ESR

More info:
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-136/cRkelFU/view.jhtml

And if you look around their website, it is possible to thermoform the material... (hint, hint)

(figured I'd mention the material again, since I don't know if everyone caught the mention of the material last time)

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Okay, got that boost supply for the Thor done.
I lightened the meter windows to make it easier to read:




This is the default Thor level on a very fresh charge, it degrades very fast to the previous picture:




Here are the boosted ones (it is adjustable):

































And yes, it will go higher, but I didn't want to risk blowing the bulb.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Amazing, 3 times.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I guess that meter sure got hot.. you're trying to beat the sleeper are you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some outside beamshots would be cool, stock against.. well the highest you wanna go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Yes, the meter surface actually got warm from that.

Note: I am unable to make this older digital camera stay at the same f-stop.

Here are some outside beamshots (you read my mind):

First, standard shots







Now for the boosted version:

Re: Thor Spot Light information

WOOWW!

This Spotlight forum is getting more and more interesting everyday! Newbie this is great.

I must have missed something though...can you explain your "boost supply" and how it is delivering 16V to the bulb? Did you make a boost circuit or did you just simply put together some batteries to output 16V?

Wow...i'm just imagining now the possible applications. Stonger bulbs, bigger batteries, heavier spotlights, stronger arms! And my girlfriend says i'm just wasting away in front of this computer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Awsome work!

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Wow amazing power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Looks you just burnt a hole in your fence /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Are you planning on making beamshots at bigger distances?

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Sure, tomorrow night, it is getting late here.

I just made a boost supply like I do for Luxeons, but on steroids.

Until then, here is a photo of a quick mod, I'll fix it up nicer later, bigger wires and everything.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

are you going to post the schematic ?

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Anyone local have an x990? I'd like to do some beamshots against it, and show what a fist full of whooparse can do.

Mark, tell me about your background, it takes some skill and unique parts/materials, this isn't just a simple LED boost.

I see you are "local". Anyone wanna do a small mini-meet in Oregon? Cambria, CA is Southern Cal, and a bit long of a drive at 13 hours. (Yes, Southern Cal, it takes only four hours from LA, and 10.75 hours from Smith River, CA.) (all numbers are at legal speed limits...)

BTW, I just found out that the Thor bulb does 2,900 lumens at 13.2V in, 100 hour life, B3 point is 40 hours.

The X990 is only 3,200 lumens (claimed), and here we are at about 4,840 lumens with this Thor mod, 51% brighter....

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Oh your mod is definately brighter. From the pictures i've seen here before, the HID light systems don't edge ahead of the Thor by very much. If yours is 51% brighter from stock, i wouldn't be surprised if you riveled even the 50W HID systems.

I would like to see beamshots anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great job on this one. I don't think i've ever seen a boost circuit in an incandescent, let alone a spotlight, before.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Very nice work Jar ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

You got that thing a good bit brighter.
Any idea on how much runtime you lost doing it? (like that matters for this, get all you can get, project) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So, am I reading this right, you peaked at about 15,600 Lux???? Seems REALLY low, when compared to LuxIII mags doing 10,000 Lux. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Though it is very clear, you are cranking ALOT more lumens.

Yes, I would love to see this next to a X990. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Thor Spot Light information

I believe it reads 156,900 lux.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Let me see
I do component level repair and calibration of oscilloscopes for a living
about 2 years ago was the last time I drew and etched a pc board. It was for an active 24 db per octave crossover for my home theater.

so what are you pulling for current ?

Re: Thor Spot Light information

I would be interested in the schematic as well! I like the fact that you have a trim pot on there for variable power!

What are the unique parts/materials (I can id some from the pic), as I'm sure I have the skill to make a board? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Did you retain the stock charger setup? Can this be run directly from the car cig lighter plug now? Did you take out the stock charger circuit and have a look at it?

Very interested! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

So it does appear that the battery (by itself) can't push enough juice into this bulb, correct? What are you pulling from the batt. now?

Re: Thor Spot Light information

NewBie,

Thrilling work you are doing the the HAMMER has that thing got a HEMI in it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif what kind of run time will you be able to get from the factory SLA with it all jacked up?


Where is cheesehead I think he would really like this anybody seen him lately?

Very nice me likey /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Later
Sway

Re: Thor Spot Light information

[ QUOTE ]
LEDagent said:
Oh your mod is definately brighter. From the pictures i've seen here before, the HID light systems don't edge ahead of the Thor by very much. If yours is 51% brighter from stock, i wouldn't be surprised if you riveled even the 50W HID systems.

I would like to see beamshots anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great job on this one. I don't think i've ever seen a boost circuit in an incandescent, let alone a spotlight, before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, well, I looked at the Welch Allyn site, and it looks like a 50 Watt HID Aircraft landing light is putting out 3,200 lumens. Just for a HID bulb like this, you are going to lay out 254.00 for the bulb alone, without the ballast.

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=M50E012

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=M50E014&cart=1091495652192157


Take mind though, that pushing a bulb like this *does* shorten it's life, but its one heck of alot cheaper, most especially initial outlay. Especially since many HID bulbs don't last that long (some do, but not all that many).


[ QUOTE ]
jtice said:
Very nice work Jar ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

You got that thing a good bit brighter.
Any idea on how much runtime you lost doing it? (like that matters for this, get all you can get, project) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So, am I reading this right, you peaked at about 15,600 Lux???? Seems REALLY low, when compared to LuxIII mags doing 10,000 Lux. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Though it is very clear, you are cranking ALOT more lumens.

Yes, I would love to see this next to a X990. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jtice. If nobody local has a X990, you feel like loaning one? I figure you have one, you have dang near every flashlight made in the past five years...

I estimate runtime is reduced by about 39% (or 61% of what it was before) This has not been tested, alot will depend on the internal resistance and condition of the battery. (anyone know of any lead acid cells that are of a higher quality, in the same form factor)?

156,000 lux. Keep in mind, especially that the area of the beam is fairly large, that is a much larger sensor in the photo than many cheap light meters have. If it was focused to a tighter spot, the lux reading would be much higher. I may fiddle with it, as it is not all that focused right now...

Note that the output is adjustable, so you can get long runtime or brighter output.

Yeah, we are talking two different classes of lumens, a Lux III if driven at 1A, at 80 lumens, if you hold the die at 25 degrees C, which you do not in a flashlight, there is a die to slug resistance of 13 degrees C per watt, and at 1A, you are looking at about 4W, so the die will be about 52 degrees above the slug temperature, plus the slug typically rises to about 45 degrees C, so you are talking ~ 97 degrees C for the die. According to this:
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/protected/DS45.PDF
I see a 25% reduction in light output, or about 60 lumens in the typical Lux III 1 Amp mod.

Contrast this with ~4800 lumens.

A whole different class...


[ QUOTE ]
markdi said:
So what are you pulling for current ?


[/ QUOTE ]

About 10.6Ain at 11Vin. To get high efficiency out of the converter, you'll need 4" wide traces with the typical 0.5 oz mail order PCB material (you can often special order 2.0 oz copper, still an issue). I used 4 oz. copper, which is much thicker than normal PCB copper cladding. It also doubles as a heatsink, where thinner materials would result in high thermal resistance....

[ QUOTE ]
LEDmodMan said:
I would be interested in the schematic as well! I like the fact that you have a trim pot on there for variable power!

What are the unique parts/materials (I can id some from the pic), as I'm sure I have the skill to make a board?

Did you retain the stock charger setup? Can this be run directly from the car cig lighter plug now? Did you take out the stock charger circuit and have a look at it?

Very interested!

So it does appear that the battery (by itself) can't push enough juice into this bulb, correct? What are you pulling from the batt. now?


[/ QUOTE ]


Unique parts? Most of them, except the electrolytics. I pull more current out of the battery and load it down harder. Yes, the variable aspect is rather nice. All the original stuff is there, including low beam. I just wired in after the high beam switch. I may change this and use the shutdown pin of the regulator with the switch, to elimate it's resistance. Yes, the stock charger still works, no, I did not remove it. It was getting late and I just did a quick mod.


[ QUOTE ]
Sway said:

NewBie,

Thrilling work you are doing the the HAMMER has that thing got a HIMI in it! what kind of run time will you be able to get from the factory SLA with it all jacked up?


Where is cheesehead I think he would really like this anybody seen him lately?

Very nice me likey
Later
Sway



[/ QUOTE ]

What is a HIMI? Runtime, see above. Thanks for the comment Sway.





I'll see if I can paste together some schematics soon.

Re: Thor Spot Light information

Nice job NewBie! How much would it cost to replicate, and would you be willing to make and sell them?

Re: Thor Spot Light information

the 35 watt hid in the x 990 is 3200 lumins
a 50 watt should be more than that around 5500 lumins acording to suvlights.com