Bright incandescent, good runtime. e2e size

I have plenty of nice 1W and 3W Luxeon lights. But today when I did my dark room test (One Step: Shine it into a dark room), I noticed my 60 lumens stock Surefire E2E incandescent was quite bright. Brighter than my LED's in fact. Sure it was an ugly yellow color but you can't doubt the brightness.

With that said, how bright can a Surefire or something that size get? I want to get as bright as I can with respectable runtime. Now, I am not that familiar with what expected runtimes are, so you tell me what is considered good. Of course I'd prefer 1-2 hours but I don't think that's possible with anything over 60 lumens right?

In addition to that question, which light(s) would you guys recommend that would achieve my goal?

Thanks in advance.

E2e is 60 lumen
Streamlight TL-2, "claimed" 100 lumen
TACM III (just a little bigger and wider) 105 lumen (good throw)

The Streamlight TL-2, Scorpion and the Night Fighter II use the same bulb, so the 100 lumen clain is suspected.
Although I like the lights for the small size and good price.
However I don't think that are a good choice for a LEO as the bulb are bi pin and can be disloged by a shock to the bezel. I have one that come that way out of the shipping carton.
Another thing is that the bulb life is advertised (in the instrucctions) at only 5 hours.

The ASP Tac-Lite is another with an intense and long throw beam. but not lumen rating is provided.

Juan C.

Pelican M6 is about the same size as Surefire 6P, and it has a pretty good throw too (one of the 2x123 throw king after TACM III and ASP Tac-Lite). According to Pelican's website, it has 74 lumens. And yes, it IS brighter than E2e.

You can get a modified E2e that runs the P61. You're only going to get 20 mins of runtime tho.

What about Princeton Tec Surge? (8x AA)
Their website claims 115 lumens with 3 to 5 hour run time.

Is that what you are looking for?

As MTFD17 pointed out you can get an E2e with an E2C adaptor and a Z-44 bezel (the bezel of the Centurion C-2) for 120 of "real" lumen. I think is the most powerful small light that you can purchase. It is only 20 minutes of runtime. but it is blinding bright.

I happen to have two of them for sale at $170.00 each
what makes the light costly is the price of the individual components, especially the Z-44 bezel with its Pyrex lens,
(the Z-44 is needed in order for the color of the anodizing to match)
The E2c adaptor is also a issue in cost and of course the P-61 lamp.

Something about Surefire P-61 lamps, they have a rating of 25 hours or more!!
Also the lumen that Surefire measure are "real" lumens out of the flashlight and not out of the bulb like so many others manufacturers including Streamlight.
So you have to take it with a pinch of salt when you read somebody else claims in lumens.

Juan C,

When JSB gets his second shipment of rechargeable 123s, you can stuff a 105 lumen or 200 lumen lamp into the E2C for some *EXTREME* light in a tiny little package. R123s deliver 4.2V fresh off the charger and 3.6V nominal as compared to 3V for normal lithium primary cells, thus their ability to sustain higher power lamps.

(edited to add) PS: I believe this configuration (2xR123 + P90/91) works in any of the SF lights that accept P-series lamps. I plan to run this in a C2 for a serious dose of light in a 5oz package.

Hi everyone, thanks for the comments. I have a few questions.

1. Is the ASP Tac-Lite pretty well respected? I always thought ASP was a second rate company famous for their batons. Do they know anything about lights?

2. Can I expect the same quality and performance from the Triad? I gather that is what the Tac-Lite is called now.

3. What is a TACM III? More info please.

4. Princeton Tec Surge - With that many batteries, it sounds like it might be too large?

5. If I got the E2C adapter, where can I get the C heads?

Thanks!

The Surge is a nice compact light but not in the size that you are looking for (E2e)
The ASP Tac-Lite is a very good light and have a nice grip of foam for sure gripping, but the beam is not Surefire quality and is a bigger diameter in body than the 6P.
You can get the Z-44 head (the head of the C-2 H A ) from Surefire or watch E-Bay.
This is the link for TACM III http://www.tacm3.com/

best regards
Juan C.

So what I am looking for is literall the bezel? Does this include the head? Does head = bezel? I thought bezel was just the end piece. Then I get the E2C adapter? I have a HA E2E. I am not sure if they make HA Z44 adapter. Do they?

How could these lamps that are made for 3x123 work in a 2x123 E2E? Wouldn't it need the power of the extra cell?

Edit: KevinL - How do you know this would work? 2x123 powering that bright of a lamp? Would the rechargable PILA's work as well? Also, how would the higher lamps work in a E2E? What sort of configuration were you thinking of?

Yes in this case bezel means head, the Z-44 is natural Hard Anodized, Z-44 refers to the part number for the C-2 hard anodized head. If you don't care about the mismatch in colors you can get a black bezel for the C-2, and will cost you less than the H. A.

Check my Thread in B/S/T about the New Complete E2e with 120 lumen head

Juan C.

That's interesting. I saw your ad too, nice lights. Unfortunately I already have a e2e so I am just trying to add to it.

Are you sure Z-44 is HA? I saw one for sale and it looks black /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ok.. to run the higher powered lamps, you will need to take an existing E2e, attach an E2C converter, and attach a larger bezel, like the Z44 mentioned. Bezel/head are the same thing, they refer to the front end of the light. The Z44 is black. I'm not sure about Surefire product numbers but I am quite sure there is a version in HA3 that will match your E2e. Anyway, you need the E2C adapter and the bezel. The E2C is a custom adapter made by one of the CPFers, not an official Surefire product.

The larger bezel will then enable you to take the P-series lamps, including the 6-volt P60, P61, and the 9-volt P90, P91. If you want to use 2 x 123 lithium primary cells, you can use the 6-volt lamps. If you want to use rechargeable lithium ions with their higher voltage, you can use 2 of them with the 9-volt lamps. 2 x RECHARGEABLE 123s will power the 9 volt lamps due to their higher voltages. Using rechargeable 123s with 6-volt system lamps will blow the lamps immediately.

The rechargeable PILAs would work if you could fit them into the light. As far as I know, they are too big to pack enough of them into an E2e body. You would need two of them to supply sufficient voltage to run a 9V lamp. Each cell only provides 3.6-4.2V.

Hope this helps...

The Z44HA is the Hard Anodized bezel.

Z44BK is the clasic size bezel in black.

Wow, this is extremely helpful!

KevinL - Rechargeable 123's have THAT much more voltage? 4.5 versus 3v? That's insane. Another way for me to run regular CR123's and 9V bulbs is to get a 3x123 body right? That will just make it larger though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Finally, how can I use 9V lamps? Is there a bezel that will take 9V lamps *and* fit on the e2c adapter?

Hoghead - Do you know if that site is legit? It looks poorly designed. Are they sitll in business? I'd like to order if they check out.

Rechargeable 123s peak out at 4.2 when freshly charged, then settle down to 3.6V nominal, giving you 2x3.6 = 7.2V. When you run a 9V lamp on 3x123 in the "official" supported configuration (of course, with a larger light), the lithium 123s tend to 'sag' under the load, delivering less than their full rated voltage. This is normal and thus SF's lamps have been designed with this in mind. I hear the batteries go as low as 7V under load. Lithium ion rechargeable cells don't sag as much, thus still remain within an acceptable voltage range to drive a "9V" rated lamp.

I haven't tested this config yet because my rechargeable 123s haven't shipped yet (they are still technically pre-order items), but I'll keep you posted on how it goes. I just bought the lamps and a C2 housing for it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I typically order SF parts from here. You can read about the rechargeable 123s here. The thread has all the latest news.

The 9V lamps are the same physical size as the 6V lamps, so they will fit any of the bezels compatible with the E2C adapter such as the Z44. Just make sure you get a Pyrex lens instead of a Lexan lens because Pyrex tolerates the heat better, and load the correct batteries - 9V lamps won't run on two primary 123 lithiums and I hear rechargeable 123s with 6V lamps are a receipe for disaster.

(edited to fix URL)

KevinL - I definitely appreciate you taking the time and spelling things out for me. Some, hopefully, final questions.

If 9V lamps are designed for the sag in mind (~7V), what happens if you actually run it at 9V? I am just curious. Say you run 4 batteries which would give about 9.2V. Would the lamp then just blow?

Would you get less runtime running a 9V on 2x123 Rechargeables versus running it on 3x123 standard?

What about using a Pila battery? Could that power 9V lamp?

Finally, I saw your source but unfortunately they don't have any Z44HA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Do you have any extra E2C Adapters in HA as well?

Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

No problem, glad I can be of some help. From what little I know, lamps are typically designed to tolerate a range of voltages. For example, one very well known large aluminium flashlight with 4D cells has bulbs rated for 4.8V-6V. Overdriving the bulb in your example (9.2V, slightly over) will shorten its lifespan, by how much I am not sure, perhaps too little to be noticeable. Underdriving (too little voltage) may result in a slightly yellower light.

Runtime does suffer, 2x rechargeable 123s (R123s for short) are estimated to only give 40 minutes with a P90 (105 lumen) lamp. The P90 running on 3x123 primary cells is rated for 60 minutes by Surefire. Guess we can't have everything /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There are many others on CPF who have tried the Pilas with 9V lamps personally, some reporting very good results. The Pilas are larger than the R123s though. R123s are the same size as normal 123s. Some experiences from those who have already done it, more experiences.

Drop 'jcciv' a PM and ask him about his E2C equivalent and Z44HA bezels. He runs the Surefireparts store on ebay and he sometimes has stuff that's not listed on the store.

(edited to shorten the URL, apparently a " mark messes up things)

KevinL - You are the man. Now on to my quest to find R123's (not preorder) and a E2C adapter. Hopefully I can get the Z44HA at the store Hoghead recommended.

Please post about your new light when you get it together.

Hi,

I wanted to resurrect this thread in hopes that new technologies will yield more solutions. Is there anything better than the Surefire 9V lamp idea?

Thanks.