Newbie questions

Howdy, guys. Been a long time on and off lurker, but figured it was time to take the 'leap' and register.

I'm not a "flashaholic", but I do absolutely recognize the value of quality, and I'm willing to pay (sometimes through the nose) to get it.

I began my quest sometime after 9/11 when I started compiling a list for a BOB so I can GTFO of New Jersey in a SHTF scenario should I have to, obviously also with a mind to self-defense.

My illumination strategy was fairly simple:

1) High power, long reach, short-term lighting for tactical self defense and emergency use.
2) Intermediate power, mid-reach - more or less an EDC, for routine use either for post-emergency needs or daily convenience like changing a flat tire, or whatever.
3) Low power, for longer term area lighting during extended stay up to 72 hours in a post-evacuation or blackout scenario.

Ergo, own enough to cover me for 1 and 3. I have a SureFire M2 Millennium using the P61 120 lumen bulb to go along with my 1911 for tactical self defense, or if the SHTF. I also own a 360d Krill Extreme lamp intended for area lighting while hunkered down, or just for use when camping.

Fine. But it's #2 that I'm looking for, and I'm also beginning to think that this might require two different strategies which is why I included the ARC AAA. I'm torn between the following lights and would appreciate your help in deciding where to go with the decision process.

1) ARC 4+
2) Longbow Micra
3) Surefire E1 w/ KL1 head
4) ARC AAA

I've done enough reading about features to make my eyeballs glaze over and fall out. But I would be grateful for some firsthand opinions on practical considerations on the advantages and disadvantages of each over the other.

I do have a bit of trouble justifying $190 for an ARC4 when the Longbow seems to offer 90% of the performance for less than 50% of the price. However, if I have to spend $40 on the 'power head' to focus the beam to a useable pattern, then it changes things a bit. I also have that same sentiment regarding the E1E/KL1 combo for the same reasons. I'm not sure that it makes sense to spend $80 for a base E1E, and another $60 on the Luxeon head.

Can you guys comment on the pros/cons of each?

Thanks!

Hey Hammerhead, welcome to the CPF.

I've gotta run, now, but you should get some good responses, soon. I'll try to check back later.

Good luck and it's nice to have you on board. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Welcome to CPF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The E1e+KL1 is my EDC, and I have three CMG Infinity Ultras that should be on the plane today on their way to me. $115 is a more realistic total for the E1e+KL1, that is about what I paid.

The KL1 provides a solid 20+ lumens of full power light for 90 minutes plus another 30 minutes before it dims to around 50%. Using a 2x123 power pack for the KL1 improves efficiency greatly, pushing that to around 4 hours full power + 2 hours to 50%. If you don't want to buy the E1e, you need not - there are some alternative power pack options here on CPF including Balrog's packs and the Aleph System. They are also cheaper to some extent.

The Arc and CMG lights fill a slightly different role. They provide less light (2-3 lumens), still adequate to find your way around in darkness, and they make up for it with very long runtimes on very little battery power. The Arc AAA will go for at least five hours on full power with many more of dimming light. The Infinity Ultra uses AA cells and will do 11 hours at full power. You can put lithium AA cells in it to ensure that it will be there when you need it.

As an EDC, when you need a lot more power, the KL1 really stands out as a less expensive alternative to the Arc4 (it does not have the variable power levels though). However, its runtime is fairly short, burn the candle at both ends, you get twice the brightness and half the runtime. The Infinity/Arc AA/AAA is great when you need the extra long runtime, when reloads are not available or when you really need to push it. The KL1 fits your #2 need with medium runtime, the Infinity/Arc would still meet most of #2 with some of #3.

The best part is that you need not agonize long and hard. The KL1 on a third party power pack could be even cheaper than $115, and the Infinity Ultra is only $15. You might as well get both......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif even if you can't decide on the more powerful #2 light, you can get the Infinity or the Arc first and see if you like it. It's all about the power vs runtime tradeoff. If you get both, there's no tradeoff.

Thanks for the welcome, guys!

I guess I should have been more specific, by stating that my goal was a 1x123 cell for the upper end of the midrange lighting need. That's why I was noodling over the Longbow Micra, E1, or another single cell unit.

Maybe I can narrow it down by these questions:

1) How important is electronic brightness regulation, as found in the 4+ ?

2) Can someone confirm lumens for the E1E/KL1 combo? Based on what I'm looking at, they're saying it's 15 lumens, where the 4+ is capable of double that (albeit at a shorter runtime). In defense of the 4+'s price, it has the capability of stepping back to a low power setting, with the highest as a backup on-demand with a double click. (this could be the deal-maker for me... just that an extra $100++ for this aspect of a flashlight is a lot to spend for a dimmer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif )

3) Is there anyone in New Jersey with the units in question, that would be willing to let me buy them a cup of coffee, and play with their toys, so I can see them for myself? I'll even bring my own batteries!!!

Kevin, thanks for the suggestions. I guess I'm more of a "vanilla" kinda guy. Not sure if I'm ready to "roll my own" just yet. Although, one never knows...

I think the Longbow should be a good bet for your case, cos personally (nothing against Arc), I think the Arc 4 might be a little too expensive for your purposes.

I'll attempt to answer your questions the best I can, I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.
1) A regulated light will ensure that you get a consistent amount of light output from a light until the battery is unable to supply enough power, where it'll drop into 'moon mode', usually about 50% or so of the original output, after which it'll slowly dim out as the battery runs dry. Compare this to a non regulated (direct drive) light, the output will dim gradually until the battery is sucked dry.

2) I think the right amount should be 15-16 lumens, IIRC.

3) Well, if you're in Malaysia, I'd take you up on that coffee!

For your mid range lighting, you might want to consider a Arc LSH as well, apart from 1x123, you also have an option to use 2xAAs with a separate battery pack. Else something pretty cheap with a good runtime (about 7-8 hrs) and decent beam is the Tek-Tite Splashlite Led. I have a couple of these and I'm pretty impressed with the size and output, I must say... Well, good luck and oh... where are my manners, Welcome to CPF!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you're thinking of getting a KL1, I'd wait for the new one, which uses a Lux3 and should be out soon.

For #2 in a bag, I'd suggest a small handsfree light. I like the PT Aurora. The Petzl Tikka and Zipka series are also nice. These are all a bit of a drag to carry in your pocket though. You could also consider the Firefly, which is about half the size of the Longbow or Arc4+ and with comparable output, though the beam isn't as smooth and the light is a bit fussier to operate, especially with the 2-level switch.

You should always have an Arc AAA or something comparable, along with the above.

If you get a 2x123 "tactical" light (G2, 6P, Scorpion, PM6 etc) the Inova X5T will give useable light from the expended cells. The Arc LSH has plenty of brightness and you may find a used one for $50 or so. An Arc AAA and Inova Microlight are always in my pockets. Be sure to pack extra cells and maybe a cheap, small, AM/FM radio.

Seems like you have the big throw light and the hurricane light covered. Now you need something that is handy and usefull for typical chores.

I think the first consideration is type battery and run time. Lithium (shelf life) and 5+ hour run time are the minimim for me. Next is easily obtainible batteries. I guess 100% reliability should also be part of the deal.

Sounds like you are talking about the CMG Infinity Ultra with a Lithium AA (can use alkaline in a pinch).

There are some really good headlights on the market, too. I find them to be much better than flashlights if you are trying to actually do something in the dark.

Good luck. I think you have been assimilated. You will probably have 200-300 lights before you find the perfect light.

Welcome to CPF Hammerhead, why dontcha stay awhile! You too, lgl_olephart, nice to have ya!

Hammerhead, I think you'll find there is no perfect light, but you have some solid ideas.

1) ARC 4+
This is my favorite of your list. If you can get a second (none at Arc right now, but you find them now and again on B/S/T) that's only a hunert bucks, and while 16 levels is great, I only use the ones I've set, level 4 for primary, 9 for secondary, full power momentary and lowest level at three-click. Those four do it all for me.

2) Longbow Micra
I like the Longbows, and they have nice fit and finish, but aren't as nice as the Arcs, or as small as the Firefly or Blackbird, and they have some bugs.

3) Surefire E1 w/ KL1 head
This is a great combo. I started with this, but wanted more lumens, and had Chop put a LuxIII in it. Then, I wanted more runtime so I went to 2x123, and then added McGizmo's two stage tail. It wound up costing a mint, but it's awesome. Brite, stands on tail, two levels, tough finish. And the E1e/E2e is a component system that you can build on.

4) ARC AAA
You'll see, if you haven't already, that the Arc AAA and Ultra-G are de rigeur around here, for good reason. Tough, reliable, commonly found power source, but like KevinL says, not the same class as the other lights you are considering.

So, I vote for the Arc 4+ second for EDC and an Arc AAA or an Ultra-G as reliable lower lite workhorses. The Surefires are a great system to buy in to. And don't forget the VIP, or Lionheart as alternatives, costly but worth it.

welcome again,
daloosh

Hammerhead,

Welcome to CPF!

I recommend the ARC4+. The different levels of light can greatly extend your runtime. I'm not concerned about the cost of 123s, but rather not running my battery down when I need light for several hours. I also like the pocket clip for clipping my ARC4 to the bill of a ball cap for use as a temporary headlamp. I EDC a ARC4x in a RipOffs holster.

My second choice would be a ARC LSH-P. This light has a nice white beam and 2 hours of constant brightness, but no pocket clip. I used to EDC a ARC LSH-P in a RipOffs holster.

The Fire~Fly would be my choice if I were to EDC it in a pants pocket because it's smaller than either ARCs or Surefires. Runtime depends on which Sandwich you use.

The Surefire E1e/KL1 is a good light with typical Surefire build quality. The beam on the ones I have all have a purple tint. The pocket clip will work on a ball cap, but the light protrudes out into your field of vision. When I clip it in a front pants pocket the light tends to twist upwards in my pocket. It does ride just fine when I carry it loose in a front pants pocket, but it is longer than either the ARC4 ot ARC LS. The E1e/KL1 is about the same length as the Longbow Micra with a clicky switch. Runtime is about 90 minutes.

The Longbow Micra is well made, but it's longer than the ARCs and has a larger diameter body than the Surefire E1e. The runtime is about 90 minutes.

I have several of all of these except the Micra. I have 1 Micra and I doubt if I will buy more of them. Some of the people that have them like them, but it's to big for my taste. Other than the size it's OK. In use I do notice the difference between 1.5 & 2 hour runtimes.

Your M2 with anyone of these lights and a ARC AAA will take care of most of your needs. I recommend a headlamp too.

Someday you might want to get a Surefire M6. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

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Hammerhead said: I'm not a "flashaholic"......

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Could Hammerhead be in denial?

Mark

Hmmmm... ok. It's sounding like I'm moving toward the 4+ as an EDC in conjunction with tha ARC-AAA on my keychain. I used to have a Mag Solitaire, but after a week of being banged on keys, and dropped on concrete, you guys know what they look like. And an M6? Yeah, sure... why not??? But priorities prevail. Gotta get the bases covered first before going to 'luxury' frills.

Hmmmm... (rocking back and forth) I am not a flashaholic... I am not a flashaholic... I am not a flashaholic... I am not a flashaholic...

[ QUOTE ]
Niteowl said:
Could Hammerhead be in denial?

Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait till he hears about the modularity of the SF system.. and he's already fallen for the first rule of CPF, buy both - Arc4+ (Luxeon class) and ArcAAA (5mm class).

Hint, hint: A19 adapter, one more cell, and that M2 becomes a fearsome 200 lumen beast. KL3, and it becomes a 4-hour + 4 -hour (full power + dimming light) 19 lumen LED light. KL5, and it becomes a 5-watt tactical LED. That way you can keep a straight face when you say "I have only one Surefire light" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif (nobody said anything about the OPTIONS!)

Enjoy the ride, and hang on to your credit cards! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

M-2 + A19 + KT2 + KL 3, W/bulbs for all four combos's. M-2 W/P60 65 Lum. M-2 W/A19 W/P90 110 Lum. M-2 W/A-19/KT2 KT1 Bulbs, Turbohead, long throw. M-2 W/KL3/A19, for lond run time/to use up bats from above. E1E with L-1 LED for small carry. Inova X5T to use up all bat from above and low light/long run. All very tough! Surge for bright AA use. Infinity white/red for AA long/low light use, and to use up bats from Surge. A LED headlamp that uses above bats. Maybe a light for D/C use just in case nothing else is available (Pelican/UK). Everything covered, and it will all fit in one small bag/very little space. A lot of $ though, but what the hell. If your on this forum you have too much time and money, so buy! And don't forget a good knife, .45 and rifle! You'll be set for anything short of nuclear war. Maybe?