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Thread: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

  1. #1

    Default McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Hi guys,

    Instead of adding this post mid stream in some current thread, I decided to start fresh. For the most part, the McE2S has hit the street in its original design and has functioned reasonably well. However, with many of these in use and great feed back from users, some issues have been identified. Hopefully the switch can be improved and refined as more experience is logged.

    First off, the white nylon boot jam nuts often require individual de burring, additional conter sinking and hole enlargement. Having these parts machined was an expensive mistake on my part. I have since contracted for an injection mold and now the nylon nut is a molded part. Although the part does not comply completely with my design, it is a vast improvement which is good snce it was real expensive to get the dang mold made. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] If you have a functioning white nylon nut, there is no reason to replace it. I am willing to replace any of these nuts for users if you will mail me a SASE in which I can place the molded nut and drop it in the mail back to you.

    With some input and observations from both Bernhard and kj, it has come to my attention that in some cases, the isolating O-ring on the main body of the switch module will partially bind in the battery tube. Lubicrating the O-ring typically takes care of this but it is a work around. I believe that this is a result of tolerances stacking in an unhelpful direction. The bore in the tube is at the low side, the groove diameter in the main body is at the high side and to compound the interference, the O-ring might be fat. I had no idea that the common AS568A Dash Number O-rings were both over the specified diameter so much as well as allowed to vary so much in dimension. The original design calls out for a #010 O-ring used on the button as a retaining O-ring and a #011 O-ring as this isolating O-ring. With some limited testing, it seems that the solution is to use a #010 O-ring for isolation if yours is the case where the #011 is binding in the battery tube (thanks Bernhard and kj :thumbsup). I am now switching my build of these McE2S's to using the #010 for the isolating O-ring. My only real concern is that in the case of a raw Al light that this additional slop might allow the edge of the PCB to contact the side of the cap and provide continuity at unwanted times. My experimenting so far has not shown this to be the case. I need to contact Wayne and suggest he start supplying
    the McE2S kits with 2 ea. of the #010 O-rings. Man, I have a bunch of #011 O-rings if anyone needs them! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    If any of you feel that your switch is being hindered due to the #011 O-ring, again, I will offer a free upgrade if you will mail me a SASE. I want to point out that I have built many of these switches and not noticed this problem! It may be, in my defense, that since I use the same host for testing all of these switches I have just not encountered this adverse condition. In the fewer, complete builds, I have yet to see this problem but given the wide open population that these switches are entering into, who knows what you guys will find! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif[/img] I have been using the nygel as a lubrication but it seems to me that this grease tends to thicken noticibly over time?!?!? I am now wondering if I should switch to silicone instead. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img] To my limited knowldge, the EPDM material these O-rings are made of is compatible to either the nygel or silicone grease but is NOT compatible with petroleum greases. I am starting to think that the isolating O-ring should be used dry; especially after switching to the #010. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    Some of you guys have decided that you want less stroke from low to high and you have modified the height of the stem on the main body which closes the gap between the button and the resistor PCB. The result is a shorter stroke. This is fine but subject to personal preference and I think the stock format needs to remain with a fair distance between low and high. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    Well in closing this initial post, I can only thank all of you who have chosen to use these switches and as a group, I expect we can improve on them and I acknowledge that there is always room for improvement but please bear in mind that my resources are limited so viability will be tempered by budget, or lack thereof. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] For most of you, this post goes much deeper into the design than you want to go. I hope that this disclosure does not undermine your confidence in these switches but does provide insight for those who are interested. I am comfortable in claiming that by and large, the switch has proven itself to be a functional and reliable solution and enhancement bringing a new level of illumination to existing tools! (dim though the level may be [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img] )

  2. #2
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] great post !
    To make the "issues" sound a bit less threatening, I'd like to point out that
    a) only 2 of my 8 McE2S modules (in various endcaps) were suffering from those problems and
    b) the fix is so easy that even I could do it.
    No worries! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    bernhard

  3. #3
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Don, I love the McE2S tails. I have three of them. No problems on any of 'em. My question is: is it possible to order a bare AL tail WITHOUT the drill holes for the lanyard/tripod? Just a pure round wall with no holes?

  4. #4

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    "Dad",

    I have the tailcaps made by a domestic machine shop and the second operations of drilling and tapping the holes are all part of the package. A cap without the holes doesn't exist and would have to be made. SO I gues the answer would be yes but the cap would be custom and not inexpensive. I have a few prototypes and designs that I have not shared for predictable reasons; chief among them - "PayPal Sent" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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    Flashaholic* HgRyu's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Question [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]

    "Some of you guys have decided that you want less stroke from low to high and you have modified the height of the stem on the main body which closes the gap between the button and the resistor PCB. The result is a shorter stroke. This is fine but subject to personal preference and I think the stock format needs to remain with a fair distance between low and high."

    " modify the height of the stem on the main body "

    Do you mean that I have to shorten the length of stem ?

    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    McGizmo said:
    "Dad",

    I have the tailcaps made by a domestic machine shop and the second operations of drilling and tapping the holes are all part of the package. A cap without the holes doesn't exist and would have to be made. SO I gues the answer would be yes but the cap would be custom and not inexpensive. I have a few prototypes and designs that I have not shared for predictable reasons; chief among them - "PayPal Sent" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don, not sure I get it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I would like to investigate the costs associated with ordering a hole-less tailcap (bare AL). Thanks!

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Good call on the O-rings! I just cludged a thinner O-ring into one that was binding, and it most certainly DID help. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    HgRyu said:
    Question [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]

    "Some of you guys have decided that you want less stroke from low to high and you have modified the height of the stem on the main body which closes the gap between the button and the resistor PCB. The result is a shorter stroke. This is fine but subject to personal preference and I think the stock format needs to remain with a fair distance between low and high."

    " modify the height of the stem on the main body "

    Do you mean that I have to shorten the length of stem ?

    Thanks

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Details here tuning McE2S

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    Flashaholic* balrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Fortunately I haven't had any of these problems yet with any of my McE2Ses. However, the Aleph head naming/numbering scheme could do with some tuning [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  10. #10

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img]

    Well try this feeble justification..... The first Aleph head out, the Aleph1 is the 27 mm reflector head. The next head to be released, the Aleph 2 with 20 mm reflector is now at the anodizers and windows should arrive this week. The last of the three to be released will be the Aleph 3 which has the 38 mm reflector. So the numbers relate to the sequence in which they will become available! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    The Aleph 1 has already been designated and there is no turning back on it. Perhaps considering the Aleph 2 as designating 20 mm and the Aleph 3 as designating 38 mm will help? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    One could also make a case that the numbering could indicate the preference or sequence in which one might select one of the lights. I believe the Aleph 1 with its 27 mm reflector is the most versatile of the three in terms of range of target illumination. Next would be the Aleph 2 with a smaller form factor and better suited to close to medium range illumination and finally the Aleph 3 with its more specialized and optimized beam concentration, at the expense of size.

    In retrospect, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oops.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Don, count me in for two Aleph 2 Bare AL heads when they arrive. I'll send you an e-mail too. Thanks!

  12. #12

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Don,

    As a non-modder the only way I found to relieve McE2S spring pressure was to cut the springs down a bit. This wasn't a great solution and after reading this thread I realized the trick is to shorten throw between low and high

    I spent the last hour in a mechanically-challenged frenzy trying to take the E2S apart. In lieu of a 3/32" allen wtrench I used a screwdriver blade that locked into the hex aperture and used a needle nose pliers to very awkwardly attempt to keep the whole unit from spinning, to no avail.

    I'll get the Allen wrench tomorrow but I'm still at a total loss as to how to do this. I understand that you prefer a stock setting and any alteration is best done by the individual, but this individual doesn't have a clue!

    I was careful to review all McE2S posts before posting this and I'm still willing to try it on my own but at this point I'd appreciate any help you can give me, starting with how I can get the darn thing apart.

    Thanks,
    Brightnorm

  13. #13

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Brightnorm,
    You need the allen wrench and then you need some pliers to hold the metal button fixed when you loosen the screw.

    In the cutaway below, the screw is not shown but it threads into the button (purple)



    I believe you can see how the button sits on the stem or post of the main body and the gap between the flange on the bottom of the button and the top of the resistor PCB (in yellow). By filing down the top of the stem, this gap is reduced.

  14. #14

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Thanks Don

    BN

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    Flashaholic* balrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Don, I have no problem remembering which head is which. However, when someone buys an Aleph 1 and receives an Aleph 2, that might be a problem [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. You can call them whatever you want since you gave them life.

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    McGizmo said: I believe you can see how the button sits on the stem or post of the main body and the gap between the flange on the bottom of the button and the top of the resistor PCB (in yellow). By filing down the top of the stem, this gap is reduced.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    if you decide to file this down. please note what you are trying to reduce is small. aprox. .015in or 4x sheets typewriter paper.

    go slow filing down in stages. testing as you go. I was very pleased with my results. your mileage may veri.

    I agree with Don's accessment that the stock demensions needs to stay the same. Factoring in mfg tolarances, it's better to have too much separation, then not work at all.

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    To make absolutely sure I know which part to file down, I've marked it on the picture below:


    Is this right?

  18. #18

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    gregw,
    You are correct.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Don, thanks for the confimation! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    I would like to take you up on the offer to replace the nut for mce2s with the newer molded one. This switch has added greatly to my L4 but I do have some fit problems. Please provide an address that I can send a SASE.... and thanks
    TPH

  21. #21

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    TPH,
    Please send me an E-mail and I will respond with my mailing address. Thanks!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    gregw said:
    To make absolutely sure I know which part to file down, I've marked it on the picture below:


    Is this right?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Question on this mod: while it will decrease the travel needed to get from the low-level to high, won't it also increase the travel required to turn on the low level in the first place? Maybe cutting the spring or decreasing spring tension is the way to go instead. What do you experts think?

    Thanks!

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    Flashaholic gtwace's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    sithjedi333 said:
    Question on this mod: while it will decrease the travel needed to get from the low-level to high, won't it also increase the travel required to turn on the low level in the first place? Maybe cutting the spring or decreasing spring tension is the way to go instead. What do you experts think?

    Thanks!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The mod will increase the travel to low setting, but it is good since you can add 1/2 a turn to the tailcap to further tighten it. However the filing must be done with care, too much filing and the thing is gone - unstable high, low setting when pressed. If you want to reduce the force required to activate the low and from low to high, using a softer spring or shorter spring will help. The prototype McE2S Don sent me is better in this aspect.

  24. #24

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    sithjedi333,
    As gtwace has implied, the tailcap will need to be tightened further to get the travel back to the same distance as it had been but once done so, low will require the same displacement as before and high will be achieved with less displacement.

    Personally, I screw the cap down until low is on and then back off the cap just enough that low goes off and pushing the cap itself forward won't give you momentary low on either. There is some slop or backlash in the threads and you want to make sure that pressure on the cap itself doesn't fire up the light. Setting your switch in this manner provides for the minimum displacement required to achieve either low or high. To lock out the light, I just loosen the head a bit. BTW, lock out is not possible in this manner with the few raw Al lights that are out there.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    ahhh thank you gentlemen. i had been turning it on then backing off by half a turn, which was probably too much (the turning is firm enough that it probably rotates very little if at all inadvertently). i will try the spring thing too.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic gtwace's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    McGizmo said:
    white nylon boot jam nuts often require individual de burring, additional conter sinking and hole enlargement. Having these parts machined was an expensive mistake on my part. I have since contracted for an injection mold and now the nylon nut is a molded part.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Which part is the Nylon boot jam nut ?

    I spent half the day examining the McE2S and I must say Don did a really good job fine tuning the system, keeping the parts and spacing thin and functional while given the limited amount of travel on the tailcap. Perhaps some parts may require slight adjustment due to machine tolerance and the sensitivity nature of the product. I have no doubts that the design was optimised to the very best before it hits the production line.

    Thanks Don.

    (I got some solutions that may work, one is to use thinner resistor PCB to allow more filing down, but I am sure anything thinner is hard to find. I will post later, zzZZZ)

  27. #27
    Flashaholic gtwace's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues



    ok, here is my suggestion. The Blue part in the picture is a nut that holds the rubber down. Mine has a thickness of 3 full threads, that is alot of allowance to me. I think we can file down or produce one that is just 1.5 thread thick and the thing will still screw in holding down the rubber and giving you another 1.5 rounds to tighten your tailcap, quite alot in surefire terms. How does the idea sound ?

  28. #28

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Gtwace,
    When you thin down the jam nut, the button will be pressing into the rubber boot and the boot will be pushing back. What you propose would be more effective if you also remove some of the top of the button. Now you will find that when you tighten down the cap that you will be running over the O-ring with the threads if you don't bottom out on the raised portion of the battery tube first. At least this is likely with some caps and tubes.

    This switch could have been optimized had it been designed from scratch and the the battery tube designed for proper mate. As it was, I wanted to work with existing geometry and architecture as well as move into some of my own stuff. I don't claim to have hit the magic dimensions and in fact I am aware of some areas that could have been better. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

  29. #29

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    [ QUOTE ]
    gtwace said:
    ...If you want to reduce the force required to activate the low and from low to high, using a softer spring or shorter spring will help...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cutting the spring is effective in reducing force, but you must be just as careful as when filing down the stem; too much and you've ruined it, as I've done more than once.

    Brightnorm

  30. #30

    Default Re: McE2S: improvements, fixes and issues

    Bringing an old thread back up, as my findings don't need a new thread. I ran a quick search, but didn't find anything.

    I've found that the Z52 boot is more compliant/softer/sensitive than the "aftermarket" (McGizmo/Shoppe) ones. It also doesn't smell as strongly. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm going to disassemble all my Z52s and take their boots for assembly with McE2S. I think the stiffer boot may lend itself to preventing accidental activation when put into a Z52 LOTC.

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