tubular locks not safe

i talked little about this in the past when i was researching bike locks. but now it has become popular to use a cheap bic pen instead of a real tubular pick. http://www.bikeforums.net/ has some videos and news links. i dont think they should have publicised this so much but i think it will be for the better of the bike lock industry

A closed shackle padlock is best but I guess not entirely suitable as a bike lock in some cases.

That is just screwed up, I just opened both of my Kryptonite MegaLok's with the barrel of a plastic pen.

Looks like I won't be leaving my bike outside for a while.

-YC

Ok, I'm not getting this at all.
I've watched the videos but I also thought I knew how locks work.
In a pin tumbler lock the pins need to be raised/lowered to the shear line so that the lock plug can rotate.
In a tubular lock the pins need to be depressed to the shear line before the tube will rotate.
Are the Kryptonite pins not functional and just for show or is the bic pen exerting enough force to break the pin assembly?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

with a simple pick-set, you are able to defeat most any lock. There are some exceptions like the Medico twist tumbler locks.

people have known for years, one could pick a tubular lock with the proper tubular pick tool. but never considered picking with a simple bic pen.

I've been hearing about how defeating locks are the rage for hackers.

Yeah, I get that...
I've been picking locks for years and I used to have a tubular lock "pick".
But the bic pen method doesn't even seem to involve the pins -- just the tube, which shouldn't be movable until the pins are dealt with.
A tubular lock without pins could be opened with needle-nose pliers.....
So again, are the Kryptonite pins just for show or are they that flimsy?

[ QUOTE ]
GJW said:
....In a pin tumbler lock the pins need to be raised/lowered to the shear line so that the lock plug can rotate...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought too, since the tool... *ahem*... key has different individual heights that are varied to different locks.

But hey, there were the clicks, and it opened.

-YC

Ok, I just 'bic'ed my Kensington computer cable lock.
It obviously works.... I just don't understand how.....

Ahhhhh....... and now I do.....
It really is the same principle as a professional tubular pick.

Is the professional pick self adjusting? I was under the impression that you had to alter the heights for each pin to get the clicks?

It is "sort of" self adjusting.
Tension holds the pin picks in place and the resistance of the real pins as you insert the tool overcomes that tension and adjusts the pin picks.
It ain't exact but 2 or 3 tries and you're in.

Gotcha, but the issue on hand is that Bic pens can be very easily obtained and the idea/method is going to be in the open.

They don't even need to be prepared, they just need to happen to walk by a bike with these locks and happen to have a pen on them.

Whereas with the picks, you have to buy them, learn how to use them and actually carry it with you.

Locks can be easily bypassed, but the more people that know how to, the less effective it becomes.

-YC

Slightly OT but I've been informed that this type of padlock (see top pic) that's usually attached to steel gates of homes can also be easily opened by tapping & jiggling the sliding steel cylinder/shaft, whereas the bottom type are slightly better.





And would you believe it - there's even a lock-picking forum! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

No surprise, there is such a hobby as lock picking. Check out the online MIT basic lock picking manual too.

NO lock is safe. The QuikSet lock on your home can be picked in about 15 seconds. The good locks can take 30 seconds to several minutes.

One word -- INSURANCE!

I just tried this with a very old kryptonite plus D shaped lock that I have. But a bic pen was the wrong size, it was too small to fit around the center tumbler thing. So do I assume that they made these smaller at some point and that a pen just happens to be the perfect fit?

Thats almost hilarious.

Seems they should make the tumbler a different size again, that would help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Or perhaps take a lesson from the record industry and we'll just outlay pens in general. It's back to the pencil my friends...

If the lining up of the pins isn't necessary to open the lock, what's the point? Is Kryptonite owned by Microsoft or what? I smell a class action suit and I want in on it. This really chaps my hide. I'm just lucky I live in a town where the bike thieves can't read...but that'll only work for a while.

Very interesting...I'm going to have to try this on a few locks I have around. Thanks for the link.

-Mike

Looks like Kryptonite found it's Kryptonite /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif