Opposing sound.

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
I was thinking again and wondering just how easy opposing sound frequencies could be to produce in order to cancel house and exterior noise in a bedroom for a better nights rest. I am two blocks kitty corner from an intersection that I don't here and about 250 to 300 yards from railroad tracks with nothing but air in-between them and my house. Some of those conductors like those horns. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif
Anybody know anything about white sound here?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
Wylie
 

rdf

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
113
Location
Texas
Wylie,
Creating opposing images of the sound's sine wave to zero out the amplitude is pretty tough. You would have several frequencies to worry about.
I live close to a RR track, too, and our conductors really like those horns. Something I've found helpful is a broad-spectrum white noise generator.
white noise

Russ
 

Brock

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
6,346
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
The problem is to get the waves exactly opposite as the first for a whole room is quite hard. You can get close, or in the case of headphones, very close, since you only have to match the opposite sound in one location.

Check out http://www.soundproofwindows.com

Or you could run a noisy fan to try to cover up the outside noise.
 

Jack_Crow

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2004
Messages
417
Location
West Palm Beach FLA (for a while anyway)
W,
I got to try the Bose noise canceling head phones, they were amazing, but 300 bucks, even at my rate, I don't think on them for long.

White noise will work. It won't take much.

I use a similar trick with my dogs. The will bark at any sound, so when the wife and I leave the apartment, we leave the stereo on. Low. This covers most of the normal sounds in the home, and the dogs don't bark at falling leaves.

Later dude
Jack Crow in Iraq
 

Pellidon

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
1,375
Location
39.42N 86.42 W
"White Noise" which is a kind of "static" random full spectrum audio signal might override the other distraction noises without having to match amplitude or frequency. The brain can be diverted by the subtelest of things on occasion. A Radio on low volume can be adequate for me. Except for the time I had it on a Progressive Rock station and they played the long version of In a Gadda Da Vida at 2:30 in the morning. I awoke to the "elephant" section. Probably because it was kind of choppy. So I probably won't tune it to a Hip Hop station anytime soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Edit: Some New Age music can tranq me out even after three large coffees and a half a bottle of No Doz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
 

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
Thanks Folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

rdf,
I've seen those in stores and they may just do the trick. While staying with a friend I noticed the small water fall's sound he has next to his place and it was nice.

Brook,
Those windows are a great idea. The only issue I would have is the expense. I do have double paned windows thoughout the house I have bought and a great deal of the noise from the trains is deminished so the cheaper alternatives are much more viable as I see it.

Jack Crow,
Years back I did try sleeping with headphones on but they just didn't work very well as I am a very active sleeper. I flip flop a lot! It's a back thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Pellidon,
I do leave the TV on some of the time and should probably try the music stations I have with the Direct TV system before spending a great deal of money. My only fear would be sleeping through the alarm clock.


Well if nothing else,
I've done a little looking around the net and the closest thing I have found to my kind of budget would be this little portable unit I could move from room to room.
http://www.avlelec.com/masker.htm
It just may be worth the $400 if nothing else works.

Thanks again folks,
Wylie
 

Steelwolf

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
1,208
Location
Perth, Western Australia
The funny thing about white noise is that you don't really need to spend big bucks to get them. First and simplest solution is to tune your radio to an empty area. That hissing sound you hear is fairly close to white noise, though most radios will probably end up playing something that is a little light in the pink (bass) part of the spectrum. More due to speaker characteristics.

Most electronic hobby shops like Radioshack (or **** Smiths in Oz) will have a little kit that will do the trick too. It is usually touted as something that will help tinnitus(?sp? the hearing condition, not the foot fungus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) sufferers. It uses a reverse biased transistor to produce the white noise, instead of tuning it from the airwaves. It probably needs a little modification to become a self-contained unit with a speaker and amp as most of the kits are only equipped to output to headphones.

The problem with white noise is that it is still sound pressure, so your ears are being continuously bombarded with sound, even if your brain doesn't "hear" it. This can effectively desensitise your ears after prolonged use, ie broad-spectrum loss in hearing sensitivity.

My own personal favourite is a miniature waterfall. These are fairly small, self-contained waterfalls, usually small enough to put on a shelf or desk. Sounds a lot better than white noise, though it can sometimes have that effect of inducing you to want to pee.

That product that rdf suggested is not bad. I have heard one similar unit before and the extra sounds are basically modifications of the basic white-noise spectrum. But there was another unit I heard about which had real noises that were recorded, than modified so that it could become a seamless loop. So you really got running water sounds, not just modified white noise. Still looking for it though.
 

gadget_lover

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
7,148
Location
Near Silicon Valley (too near)
When you look at active sound canceling, your main problem is calculating where the listener's ears will be when the two waves collide.

I have had a couple of those head sets. I worked in an equipment room where the buzz from the multi killowatt UPS would drive you batty. The headsets allowed me to listen to the radio without turning the volume up to "stun".

The problem with the headsets I've tried so far is that they create a pressure wave that I find very uncomfortable. I feel like I'm in a decompression chamber and constantly try to clear my ears.

I haven't tried any this year. They may be better now.

Daniel
 

Brock

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
6,346
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
[ QUOTE ]
Wylie said:
Brock,
Those windows are a great idea. The only issue I would have is the expense. I do have double paned windows throughout the house I have bought and a great deal of the noise from the trains is diminished so the cheaper alternatives are much more viable as I see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. They cut out a LOT more noise then regular double pane windows. The other advantage is they add another layer of insulation to the window so if you ever had water issues this would also stop those, but your right, for just sound it wouldn't be worth the $. Here in WI add in the heat savings and it does make since.

For white noise I use a heater/fan in the fan mode, very smooth, blocks a lot out. Radios do work but they produce sounds in the voice range instead of across the entire spectrum, unless you're talking a full sound system.
 

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
Okay I may understand what has been mentioned about the pressure wave thing as I have worked in building with White sound systems and it does take a little getting used to.
For the most part I have pretty good (maybe great /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif) hearing except when there are other noises around for some reason I cannot explain. I don't really want to take a chance with desensitise my hearing so I guess a little water fall (lighted of course) will be my first effort.

I do have a little 12 volt pump and figure I may just make a project out of this to see how it goes with some form a destracting noise to start with. Maybe what I can't explain will be the best answer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Thanks again folks, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Wylie
 

theepdinker

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
373
A simple fix for you could be soft foam ear plugs. They work for me.

They must be all foam, so you don't get poked while tossing in your sleep. If not soft you will think there's a stick in your ear at 3 in the morning.

When you take them out your hearing will be noticeably sharper. For a short while at least.

Theepdinker
 

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
Yeah we do have some of those at work and I have used them before but what about the alarm clock in the morning?
 

Lurker

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,457
Location
The South
I can second the recommendation for the foam ear plugs. If nothing else they are a very inexpensive option to try. They certainly help me sleep when there is disruptive noise.

As for the alarm clock, that could be a problem, but I doubt it. I think most people would still be awakened by a moderately loud alarm clock that is close to the bed. Of course you might be an extremely heavy sleeper, but then you wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
 

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
I do have to agree that the ear plugs would be the cheapest of the options. The only time that I sleep very hard is when I have been drinking or have worked extreme hours for days at a time.
I have to be carefull with how close I set the alarm clock to the bed because I have turned it off before without becoming completely awake. I now set it far enough away that I have to get out of bed to turn it off.
It's in another room now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
Thinking of others that I was living with when I bought my alarm clock I bought one that gets loader the longer it goes off and this slow progression of sound with the ear plugs in may be something I would have to test with a nap on the weekend or something.

Thanks Lurker,
Wylie
 

Lurker

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,457
Location
The South
Testing out the alarm clock with earplugs on the weekend is a smart idea. I happen to have an alarm clock that wakes me up with gradually increasing light instead of sound, and that would obviously not be affected by ear plugs, but those are pretty unusual.
 

Wylie

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
997
Location
Shoshone Idaho
That's interesting! Are you hearing impaired?
The past couple days I have been busier then usual so sleep hasn't been a real issue but I am going to try the ear plugs this weekend and see how they go over.
 

geepondy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2001
Messages
4,896
Location
Massachusetts
I use the foam earplugs a lot also in combination with the fan from my air freshener.

Question, is there anything special about a white noise generator that makes it work better for drowing out external noise then a regular fan?
 

Brock

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
6,346
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
No, actually a fan will have a wide noise range then most speakers can produce, although you can probably turn the noise level up on the noise generator but not the fan.

I also have a light alarm clock. It is so nice, no jarring noise, just slowly gets brighter and brighter until you can't sleep anymore.
 

Mr Ted Bear

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 20, 2001
Messages
1,766
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Wylie

Brock is right on the money with his suggestion of dual windows. I have been in the window covering industry since 1988, and have sold various window treatments for many of those windows installations over the years.


People call me when they need light control; you can imagine that I have branched out over the years. I have been involved with many hip hop and rock musicians that work throught the night and sleep during the days (light control). They also have their own recording studio's in their home and need sound proofing (goes both ways) you know....
 

flashfan

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,301
Location
USA
How about one of those soother/sound machines? I've used one for years, not to drown out other noise, but just because I love the sound of rain. There are a variety of sound effects you can choose from, including if I'm not mistaken, passing trains (lol!).
 
Top