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Thread: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Mrpeter105,

    Not sure what is going on, but it is working fine for me...

    Tom

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hi SilverFox:

    Well, it's working now. A glitch I guess. Thanks.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Great info in this thread! Nice to learn less expensive batteries perform as well or better than "premium" name brand batteries! I always thought the cheaper RayoVac Max @ Wally World performed just as good in my equipment as the higher end batteries, now I have proof!

    But whats with those Rite-Aid batteries!?!?! Who makes those things? Someone please find out!

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    I just wanted to thank you for this comparison! I've been looking for tests like this (and some others here) all over the internet and in print magazines for a long time without finding anything worth mentioning. I wouldn't have dreamed of finding so much information brought together in such a compact form! Just great!

  5. #125
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello, Silverfox

    What a lot of work - and so greatful results - Thank you!

    You wrote
    As far as testing other cells, I will make a list and see how much budget I have.
    Perhaps I could help you a little bit solving your budget problem. I searched for "recharge" in this thread, but found nothing: "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

    So, this is my Question:

    Why don't you try to RECHARGE your alkalines? It's possible!

    I'm recharging alkaline batteries for some weeks and my results are positive. Usually I loose 10 % of capacity during one cycle, means, that you can bring back (sorry for my bad english) 90 % of decharging capacity back to your batterie. In long term you can use a alcaline batterie up to 10 times instead of one time. If you're interested, I can give you some instructions.

    Reinhard
    Last edited by reini23; 09-17-2005 at 04:52 PM.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Reinhard,

    As I understand it, Alkaline cells need to be recharged before they are used up. You use the cell a little, then attempt to charge it back up.

    I would love to document this process, but end up totally discharging the cell during testing. I know you can float a surface charge on an Alkaline cell, then utilize that surface charge under very low current drains, but that does not seem to apply very well to flashlight use.

    Tom
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  7. #127
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Silverfox,

    as I can see on the first page of this thread, you discharge AA and AAA alcalines with 0.5 and 1.0 Amps. You wrote:
    You use the cell a little, then attempt to charge it back up
    ...
    then utilize that surface charge under very low current drains
    ...
    The capacity is reduced at higher load levels
    Ok, that's right. As you mention, my currents are lower: AAA -0.2A +0.1A, AA -0.4 +0.2A. This means, I discharge AA cells at 0.4 (+-0.1) Amp current rate. I stop discharging at 1.0 Volts. These conditions results in higher capacity, that's sure. My best result testing it this way: Decharging Capacity of a two times used and reloaded AA cell 1.076 mAh + 71 mAh adding capacity a few hours later. But I don't think, it's much lower then your testing conditions. I will try to increase discharging current up to 1.0 Amps and expecting the results. And in addition, my batteries aren't new, they all are thrown away recycling cells.

    Reinhard
    Last edited by reini23; 09-18-2005 at 02:03 PM.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Thanks for that interesting addition on the Energizers. I guess I have gotten complacent - I keep thinking that batteries get BETTER every year, but maybe the bean counters have stepped in.

    It also could be that they want more product separation between Li and non Li versions.

    Every time I read this thread, I keep thinking that I need to buy some of those HDS Li D cells and put them in something really bright.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    A couple of years ago Consumer Reports magazine did a big test of alkaline batteries. Unfortunately I do not rmember which issue it was. Check your local library for the back issues to find it.

    Anyway their conclusion was that most of the brand name batteries were about equal. and to :buy by price and not brand name.

    I have yet to really see how they hold up in my hand held VHF/UHF radios under heavy use.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Why bother with any magazine? They can't ever conduct a test as extensive as Silverfox has done. With flashaholics, it matters a great deal to us what the capacities are when subjected to a particular load. Published specs don't mean a thing because the cells will perform differently with different devices drawing varying amounts of current.
    Bill

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Update:

    Winny sent me some IKEA AA cells to check out - Thank you.

    The test results are at the bottom of the first post.

    A funny thing happened while testing these cells...

    I am in the middle of a project involving testing and comparing a large number of NiMh and NiCd cells. Although the IKEA box and cells are clearly marked Alkaline, with rechargeable chemistry on my mind, I found myself putting the IKEA Alkaline cells on my La Crosse charger to put them through a conditioning cycle or two...

    Fortunately, the charger is smarter than I am and did nothing. I must admit that it had me going for a minute or so. I was wondering why the voltage on the cells was close to 1.6 volts, then I noticed that they were Alkaline cells.

    Tom
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    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    You are welcome!

    Don't worry, you're not ready for the old people's home (this weeks strangest translation) yet. Anyone can make a mistake.

    Anyway, about the batteries.
    A Swedish photography magazine had done some testing and found that the IKEA cells provided the best value for money among the tested cells.
    A 10-pack of these costs just under $2 here and I will happily ship any amount of them to any CPFer.

    I got some strange questions from my friends when I packed them. "Why on earth are you shipping alkaline cells to the other side of the globe?" I tried to explain they it was the most natural thing in the world to do, wasting about 22 MJ of Jet A-1 fluel to deliver 30 kJ of electrical energy. That's about 0.2 % efficiency if we assume that no other transportation is needed, the plane (Boeing 737) uses 61 MW continuous for 8 hours and can carry 16 tonnes.
    Last edited by winny; 11-19-2005 at 05:17 PM.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Panasonic Digital AAA battery is good might be better than Rayovac??? It's also cheap price. Gotta find some Riteaid battery now thanks

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    SiverFox, any chance to add Panasonic Oxyride in this shoot out?
    Panasonic say they run up to 3x their own alkaline (in a Kodak digital camera).
    Source: http://www.panasonic-batteries.com/i...D=77&style=392

  15. #135

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    I have been using the Panasonic Oxyrides to get more brightness out of my Streamlight Jr. Luxeon. They make it noticeably brighter. I'm surprised more people here are not discussing them. Walgreens puts them on sale every now and then. . .
    Orb Raw NS (UWOJ), VB-16 (Fourth Edition SSC), Fenix L1T 2.0 Rebel, MTE C2 70601, Liteflux LF2 (SSC P4), Fenix L0P-SE (SSC mod), Amilite Neo T5, Peak Caribbean (Seoul), Jetbeam CL-E 1.2, Fenix L2P (Nekomane CR2 mod), JIL CR2 1.3 (Up), Sam's Element, Streamlight ProPolymer Luxeon AA.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Glire,

    If you look at the AA results, you will see results for the Panasonic Power Edge, which are the oxyride cells.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  17. #137
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    OK, thank you
    A suggestion: put somewhere the word Oxyride. This would allow the search engine to find this great thread.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Glire,

    Done.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    What about Panasonic "long lasting for Digital electronics" alkalines? Are they any good? Anyone have any info on them?
    Last edited by Schuey2002; 11-21-2005 at 02:13 AM.

  20. #140

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    this has been great reading...
    and the bottom line is really the cost per cell (to get the device powered up) and then the cost per runtime (cost of running/replacement).
    ie - the Alkaline vs Lithium is the extreme comparison.
    thanks for all the effort...

  21. #141

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    This thread is a tremendous resource. Thanks for all your hard work, SilverFox!

    Now, I have a question that's a little off the beaten path. I just purchased a Black & Decker "Alkaline" power screwdriver. It's a 6-volt tool that uses four (4) AA alkaline cells.

    The package and instructions say to use AA alkaline batteries only, but after seeing how well AA lithium cells perform in Tom's tests, I bought dozen Energizer AA lithium batteries at Sam's Club to use in my new Black & Decker power screwdriver.

    I suspect the screwdriver will draw several amps of current for short bursts of time as I'm using it to install or remove screws. Is it safe to use the lithium cells for this application? Any danger of overheating or explosion? Do you guys believe lithium chemistry is the best choice for this tool? (I use it seldomly, and it will be stored in a cool barn most of the time.)

    I appreciate any comments and advice you guys can offer. Thanks!

    BTW, I bought the alkaline version of the screwdriver because I'm tired of constantly charging and ruining the NiCd batteries that usually come with cheap power screwdrivers.
    "Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints."

  22. #142

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    I bet the *alkaline only* claim is too mainly discourage cheaper battery usage and it would work fine with nimh cells. If you find yourself using it often I would look into a set of 4 2500mah energizers and a charger (I prefer fast chargers 1hr or less).
    Drill motors of any type seem less suitable for alkaline usage IMO as the batteries deplete they slow down to unuseful speed/torque then you either toss them in an LED light or throw away a half used cell while nimh/nicad will run till they are nearly dead at near full speed.
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  23. #143
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Hello Exit32,

    I don't think you would have any problems using Lithium batteries in your drill, however, to be sure you should check with Black and Decker.

    You do have a 2 year warranty, so if you decide to try them, do it right away. If something goes wrong, you can get the full warranty replacement. Lithium batteries will allow the drill to operate at close to it full torque rating for the life of the battery. They are a bit more expensive than Alkaline batteries, but seem to be well suited for your use.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  24. #144

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    NiMH would probably be a good choice. In a high drain application like that, they provide a lot more useful capacity than alkalines. They require an initial investment in the cells and charger but pay off quickly if you use them a lot.

    The Engerizer 2500 mAH cells are really good. Watch out for cheap cells like Lenmar NoMem. None of the ones I got met rated capacity and some were a LOT less. They also had much higher self discharge rates than the Energizers and worked poorly in high drain use.

    NiMH cells self discharge much quicker than alkalines so don't expect them to perform well months after charging or if stored above room temperature. You should also stop using them as soon as the screwdriver starts to slow down to avoid over discharging them. That can have a dramatic effect on capacity and the number of rechrge cycles.

    Mike

  25. #145

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    I appreciate all the replies and advice about using lithium AA batteries in my Black & Decker "Alkaline" power screwdriver. I don't see a downside either, but I will take Tom's advice and ask Black & Decker to be sure they're OK.

    I've got lots of Energizer 2500-mAH NiMH cells here, and I like 'em a lot. I use my LaCrosse charger to keep them working at peak efficiency, and the NiMH batteries are terrific in flashlights, portable radios, handheld scanners, and photo-flash equipment.

    The reason I don't think rechargeable NiMH cells are best for my screwdriver application is because I use it so seldomly, the NiMH cells would die from self-discharge between screwdriver sessions. What I want is a light-duty power tool that will work when I need it -- even if I haven't touched it for several years. Toss in the fact that the screwdriver is kept in a cool (40-degrees) barn, it would seem that AA lithiums are the best choice for this tool.
    "Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints."

  26. #146

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    If you rarely use it and don't want the hassle of swapping in fresh NiMH, Lithiums are probably worth the expense. That said, lower storage temps cut self dischage a LOT. Even NiMH cells have good charge retention at 40 degrees F and suffer little capacity loss when run at those temps.

    You might also want to take a look at Sanyo Eneloop NiMH cells that were just introduced. They're quoting 90% charge retention after 6 months at room temp and 80% after a year.
    http://www.sanyo.co.jp/koho/hypertex...1/1101-2e.html

    Mike

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Update:

    I have added the data from the CSV AA batteries that Onthebeam sent me - thanks John.

    I have also added the graph of the IKEA cells to the comparison graph. I noticed that this graph is getting a bit cluttered, so I added the data for the AA cells in tabular form, sorted on WattHours.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  28. #148

    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    thanks for all the effort and time in putting together these tests and results for both the Alka and recharge batteries...

    It's interesting to see the tabular results with respect to Watt Hrs.
    I wonder how things might look when adding the relative cost into the equation.
    ie - is it more cost effective to run Lithiums vs Alka ?

    Then again - in some cases, the Lithium or NiMh batteries might be too much voltage or mah for the device (flashlight, camera, etc) and fry the circuit...
    Last edited by ps56k; 02-15-2006 at 04:39 PM.

  29. #149
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Those Ikea AA alkalines are probably the best value for money you can get... Here in the netherlands, where everything is too expensive, these Ikea AA batteries retail for 2,50 euros for a pack of 10. Once in a while they are on sale for just 1,25 euros per pack of 10. The performance is pretty good too in everyday use.
    When they are on sale, I usually buy them in bulk
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  30. #150
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    Default Re: Alkaline Battery Shoot Out

    Tom, do you know anything about the Sears alkaline batteries? Someone told me that they were right up there with Duracells, but cheaper?

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