Rechargeable CR123's

Rechargeable CR123\'s

Everytime i want to buy a flashlight i see online, i hesitate because it uses expensive CR123's, but almost all the good flashlights use those nowadays and i want know which rechargeable cr123's/chargers are the best/affordable and will not damage my light like say....by putting too much voltage in it. Thank you.

Wow geez, after reading about how unsafe rechargeable 123a's are, i dont think i want any of those....unless the unsafe/exploding ones are only the ones w/o that protection circuit.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

The protection circuits are designed to solve the very problem you speak of: dangers from overcharging/discharging. Protected cells are much safer, but should still be regarded as potentially dangerous. Caution is always advisable. Nevertheless, when used properly, using rechargeable cells can be very rewarding.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Thanks for the info srue. Sorry if im getting annoying just asking question in CPF, but i 'am very confused about the safety of these cells even after reading all the forums on them. I have made a list of questions that i feel must be answered before i purchase a li-ion charger/battery.

1. Are there any chargers/batteries that are recommended? (please keep in mind i do not have money to spend $50 on a charger)
2. Can i buy a charger and buy different batteries to charge on them but are the same chemical component? ex.) li-ion charger, charging R123's that i bought in a different store.
3. How can you over discharge something, and how can you tell if its still safe to charge?
4. On these types of batteries can i only use a flashlight for a short amount because of the risk of over discharging?
5. Would these type of batteries be recommended/fit for one of the new Inova luxeon series or the Nuwai Q1,3?

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Hello BT1324,

The rechargeable 123's are still in development. There are two types available. One peaks at 4.2 volts and runs at 3.5 volts. The other peaks at 3.5 volts and runs at 3 volts.

Some of the lights can be damaged by the 4.2 volt batteries. There is no comprehensive list of what works and what does not, but if you do a search on rechargeable 123 batteries, you will find discussions of what has been tried.

The 3.5 volt cells will not handle high current applications. They just shut down. The other problem with them is that they have a low capacity. This means short run times.

I do not think it is wise to mix different batteries with different chargers. If the battery has protection circuitry, it should not make a difference, but we are seeing many versions of protection and some batteries are protected better than others.

I should also add that most of the testing done with rechargeable 123's has been done in single cell lights. When you put 2 or 3 cells in a light, additional concerns arise.

The best way to over discharge a battery is to turn a light on and let it run until you can no longer see any glow.

To protect against over discharging, you simply recharge the battery as soon as you see the light output dim slightly.

A volt meter will tell you if the battery has dropped below 2.5 volts.

I don't have Inova or Nuwai lights and can not comment on the suitability of using rechargeable 123's in them.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

For the record, the Longbow Micra works off rechargeable 123s. I have run two of them off the JSB protected 123s (3.7V nominal) with no damage to the lights at all. Others have also done this, and I have never heard of any reports of damage.

BT1324,

I would suggest that you learn the ins and outs of LiIon batteries before making a purchase. If you are at all confused about under what conditions a LiIon battery can be unsafe I would not purchase them yet.

Basically, charging them at too high a voltage or current can cause fire or explosion. Short circuiting can cause fire or explosion (this can happen VERY rapidly). Draining them to too low of a voltage can hurt the cell, but is not dangerous. Running them in series can also cause this (where you may not notice dimming), and can also cause reverse charging.

We saw an incident where KevinL accidentally overdischarged two unprotected cells so that one cell became reverse charged. He then tried to charge the reversed cell in a poorly designed charger that fed it too much current, and the charger blew up. The LTC DIY charger has been highly recommended, although I have not personally gotten around to building one yet. It is supposed to be able to detect an overdischarged cell, and charge it at an appropriately low rate. The JSB protected cells have undervoltage protection that shuts the cell off when the voltage gets too low (this feature has worked consistently on mine). I am not sure if the charger detects low voltage or not, though. They also have short circuit protection via a self resettign fuse, although I have personally had one out of four cells in which this feature failed to function. I have not gotten around to testing overvoltage protection yet.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

[ QUOTE ]
BT1324 said:
Thanks for the info srue. Sorry if im getting annoying just asking question in CPF, but i 'am very confused about the safety of these cells even after reading all the forums on them. I have made a list of questions that i feel must be answered before i purchase a li-ion charger/battery.

1. Are there any chargers/batteries that are recommended? (please keep in mind i do not have money to spend $50 on a charger)
2. Can i buy a charger and buy different batteries to charge on them but are the same chemical component? ex.) li-ion charger, charging R123's that i bought in a different store.
3. How can you over discharge something, and how can you tell if its still safe to charge?
4. On these types of batteries can i only use a flashlight for a short amount because of the risk of over discharging?
5. Would these type of batteries be recommended/fit for one of the new Inova luxeon series or the Nuwai Q1,3?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. JS Burly's rechargeable 123s. These are protected cells and will solve many of your problems.
2. **NOT** recommended. Stick to the same kind of cells for maximum safety. There are exceptions, but this is a general guideline. By the time you know that this rule does not apply to your situation, you will also have the knowledge to pick an appropriate charger.
3. With protected cells, this is no longer an issue. Overdischarging occurs when you drain the cells too much. Protected cells will automatically cut off before the critical point so you can safely run them 'empty'. Unprotected cells will die, or worse.
4. Correct - for unprotected cells only. With protected cells you can go all the way.
5. Sorry, not sure.

You might be able to find a little more info in the MicroFAQ.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

I am expecting the next run of the 3.6/3.7 volt nominal batteries to be shipped to me this coming week. There are some changes in the battery design. They are promising me that these will be proper length and higher quality construction. We are also moving the protection from the bottom of the cell to the top of the cell.

the 3v nominal cells have also changed. These are a different animal in how they work and charge. The changes taking place in the 3volt cells require a change in the charger. I am told that these will ship in 14 days or less.

Hopefully this these revisions will be the last needed except for the normal time to time improvements.

It has become important for me for these to be right as Pilas are paying for development. Pila demand has increased to where restock has become difficult temporarily but all the new Pila dealers might make the financing of this project a little slower.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy23.gif

Hey, make sure they don't ship you one battery in the FedEx 25kg box, and that they don't tell you "it's at the factory and the factory is in siberia", and ... just kidding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm sure the second round will be much smoother than the first.

Can I get four more of those? Remember, you heard my preorder here first! Also, hopefully those cells will charge in the existing charger and NOT end up like, uh, The Incident.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:They are promising me that these will be proper length and higher quality construction.
the 3v nominal cells have also changed. These are a different animal in how they work and charge.

[/ QUOTE ]
glad to hear mfg is fixing length issues.

waiting to see what mfg did to protected "3V" I though the protected "3V" was an excellent product as is. I sure hope mfg terminates charger Voltage to 4.2V instead of 4.7v.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

I owe a couple of people battery replacements. They will have to come out of this next batch.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Jon, will you be getting both 4.2V R123 and 3V R123 in the next batch? I know it was mentioned before but what are the maH ratings for both the 4.2 and 3V versions?

Thanks

Curtis

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Wow, im surprised so many people responded =), thanks for the info guys, appreciate it, i just didnt want to end up in a firey explosion =P

P.S. - i'm still not sure if i want one yet, because it is kinda expensive, seeing how my parent would kill me when i buy a charger thats more expensive than my flashlight, heck they'd be mad at me just for buying a 20 dollar flashlight....

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

the 4.2 will be 650, the 3 are unknown yet.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Are the 3v cells actually going to be 3v? Like new primary cells weigh in at 3.4v new with no load.

Jon, if you think about it, let me know when you get the 3v version. I'd like to get some for some testing with the NexGen converter.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

I too have held back buying many lights because of 123 batteries. Mostly because of the price of batteries and the rechargeables not yet being perfected. Also I can get by 99% of the time using other lights. But it seems that the difference with non-rechargeable and rechargeable 123's will soon be like comparing an alkaline AA and a NIMH AA, except for capacity. And not having to worry about voltage, safety, weather or not it will fit in this or that light, and if it will provide good performance. I am glad to see talk of better, safer, protected 3v cills on the horizon.

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:
the 4.2 will be 650, the 3 are unknown yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jon, when do you anticipate getting more 4.2V 650maH versions? Will the 4.2 be protected cells? I would like to buy 2 batteries and a charger, but did not see anyplace on your site to pre-order or purchase.

I would be very interested in purchasing a couple 3V versions plus charger as well when you find out more information etc and see how they compare in voltage and current delivery to the regular CR123 batteries.

Will the 3V and the 4.2V versions use the same charger?

thanks.

Curtis

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

[ QUOTE ]
cue003 said:
[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:
the 4.2 will be 650, the 3 are unknown yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jon, when do you anticipate getting more 4.2V 650maH versions? Will the 4.2 be protected cells? I would like to buy 2 batteries and a charger, but did not see anyplace on your site to pre-order or purchase.

I would be very interested in purchasing a couple 3V versions plus charger as well when you find out more information etc and see how they compare in voltage and current delivery to the regular CR123 batteries.

Will the 3V and the 4.2V versions use the same charger?

thanks.

Curtis

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
JonSidneyB said:
I am expecting the next run of the 3.6/3.7 volt nominal batteries to be shipped to me this coming week. There are some changes in the battery design. They are promising me that these will be proper length and higher quality construction. We are also moving the protection from the bottom of the cell to the top of the cell.

the 3v nominal cells have also changed. These are a different animal in how they work and charge. The changes taking place in the 3volt cells require a change in the charger. I am told that these will ship in 14 days or less.

Hopefully this these revisions will be the last needed except for the normal time to time improvements.

It has become important for me for these to be right as Pilas are paying for development. Pila demand has increased to where restock has become difficult temporarily but all the new Pila dealers might make the financing of this project a little slower.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

b2p,

Thanks for the heads up.

Curtis

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

Np. I'm watching his every move in anticipation like a rabid fan. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Rechargeable CR123\'s

In one of my 'other' hobbies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif, Radio controlled ELECTRIC Airplanes, I use Lithium Polymer batteries all the time. My charger (without DC Power Supply) was $130 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif and can handle a couple of technologies including Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer. It has a temperature probe and is a 'computerized' charger. You set the number of cells (at 3.6 or 3.7 Volts per cell) and the mAh's and then the charger checks what you set by 'sensing' the load. The temperature probe shuts the charger down should the cell become warm. I know of at least one vendor that is develpoing a fire proof bag to charge in. These batteries can be VERY volitale /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
THAT said, they kill NiMh in weight/performance ratio's unless the application is VERY high amp draw). I have cells ranging from 7.4 V and 700 mAh to 11.1 V and 1500 mAh capable of putting out 15 AMPS!!!!!

Sorry to ramble on, but the bottom line is, as the demand for this application is recognized, the technology already exists and 'they will build it'!!! 2.5 years ago when I started flying, NiMh was just pushing out NiCd and the only Litium's were out of cell phones capable of putting out only 2-3 times thier rated capacities. Now there are Several manufacturers producing flying specific cells with ability to put out 10-12 times their capacity in AMP draw.

ALL that said, I just need to find to find some un-protected 3.7V (which are 4.2 V off the charger) cells to use with my Triton Charger and go buy a QIII (which is know to be able to handle the 4 Volts!!)!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif