Screw imagometrics stupid surveys. Imago has two motives getting his hands in others profit streams and having his already huge ego inflated as much as possible.
What I want....
I'd like TNC to stay people and product oriented, to enjoy making new lights and enjoying them in the company of others who also enjoy lights. I'd like TNC to ignore the self important arse at imagometrics's who is likely filling your head with silly pipe dreams of being the next MAG instruments complete with 6 figure incomes. Imago is a smooth talking bs artist.
For those who think I'm a jerk for stating my honest opinion without sugar coating, thankyou.
I took the survey, but I'll follow the lead of others who have taken the opportunity to express their views on this thread...
Type 3 HA is very important for a keychain light, because of the constant abuse inflicted by keys, coins, and other pocket contents.
Small size is extremely important. A CR2 sized light would be the upper limit of what I consider to be a truly keychain sized light. While I really like the looks of the KeyLux-AA, I'm passing on purchasing one because I don't think I'd actually put it on my keychain (I found the Arc AA to be bit too large for comfortable keychain use). I'll use the funds to buy an extra KeyLux-N when they become available again...
At the current levels utilized by keychain lights, is there really much difference in output between a Luxeon 1 and Luxeon 3? I've read that tint quality is generally better with the Luxeon 3s, so that would seem to be the main factor, as opposed to output.
I like the concept of a head that can be used with AAA or N cell bodies, at the user's discretion.
Variable output would be extremely useful - at least two stages. A low level of light would provide the option of extended runtime. The output of a typical 5mm LED is still plenty of light for performing most tasks in total darkness.
While I appreciate the utility of a light that uses common batteries (AAA or AA), I would be willing to use an uncommon battery if it meant a significant decrease in size, or a significant increase in brightness and/or runtime. Case in point: the NiMH N cells for the KeyLux-N. I think a light that used a li-ion CR2, N, or AAA battery would be fantastic. There might be some resistance to abandoning common batteries in favor of an exotic, "proprietary" power source, but TnC lights are for discriminating flashaholics, not the mass market. Maybe the regulation circuit could be tweaked so that the light could be powered by alkaline/NiMH/lithium batteries in an emergency, at the cost of decreased output?
I had a laugh when I clicked on the link to the survey. The first page of the survey said, "...No cookie or other 'client-side' component will appear on your computer."
My computer on the other hand blocked two cookies from www.zoomerang.com trying to enter my computer. I tried the survey many times and each time my computer blocked the same two cookies. I suppose the first survey page is correct that is was not putting A cookie in my computer- it was putting TWO cookies in my computer.
I'd vote for a cross between andrewwynn's Lux III AAA
lithium ion light (with the variable brightness feature)
with the knurling style of the TNC lights.
I EDC an Arc AAA-P and that's about as large as I
want to go. The Peak's look like nice lights but the
extra length is a deal breaker for me. The Arc is
bright enough for me 80% of the time. 10% of the time
it is too bright and the other 10% it is too dim.
So I guess I want a 3 level light [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
My AAA-P has a yellow beam splotched with purple
so I'm interested in Andrew's light for the better
beam (parabolic reflector) and color (from the Lux III).
I'd like to see a AAA-driven light with 2-stage brightness. The "low" level should be as efficient as possible (4 hours runtime?) and a bit brighter than the average coin-cell light. "High" need not be very efficient and should be bright while still allowing for, say, 15 minutes' runtime.
HA aluminim is nice, but how about stainless steel? No matter what you do with a keychain light, it's going to get beat up by the keys etc on a keyring. Might as well go with a material that's inherently hard rather than just being a surface treatment like hard-anodizing... The heat from a single emitter driven at low levels (or high for short durations) doesn't seem like it would overwhelm stainless.
Regardless of who it is from, I like the idea of a choice Lux I or Lux III light on the lines of the Vortex KC1 but either running on the CR2 and shorter than the KC1 or ever so slightly longer running on a single 123. Yes, a single AAA or even an N cell would be nice, but I'd go for the 3 volt.
As others have said, as small as possible with regards to the cell it is using. It's a keychain light, people! It doesn't need to be literally capable of being run over by a tank. The Infinity Ultra is SERIOUSLY overbuilt. I think the body should be thick enough that it would never be bent under extra heavy duty pocket use and no more.
Give it a natural HA III coat, light knurling, not crazy agressive stuff. Recessed or offset keyring so it can set upright with keys attached. A super shallow reflector allowing for excellent spillbeam and a relatively hot hotspot but I don't long for yards and yards of throw in a keychain light. Either a wide spot or a narrow flood would be ideal for me. Switching could be a double dented twistie. First level about comparable to the Infinity Ultra (or even a little less) and the second level a hair under the Nuwai Quantum III. Maybe 200 and 1500 respectively on Quickbeams chart. And a nice mineral glass or pyrex lens.
If someone could make a light like this on par with Peak build and machining quality for under $75, I think they'd have a winner.
I agree that a CR2 light with a lux3 would be great. I'm willing to pay for CR2 batteries on a keychain light. I don't use a keychain light for extended runs, so I probably wouldn't have to replace the batts so often. I have other EDC options for extended use and/or blinding throw.
For me, a keychain light is a great back-up or "where's that keyhole?" light.
I really would like to make more custom splash ano lights but the cost is way too high now. It costs me $80.00 per light now. My original anodizers doesn't do them anymore. He says it is just not worth it.
I guess you all know something about Imago that I don't.
The flat shape seems very interesting... you may need to round the corners a bit. I would like to see one of those. 3 watter for good tint, and a high/low option. There also might be room for a Li-Poly battery pack.
I am a big fan of your products but not of those darn Zoomerang polls.
That said, I would strongly recommend going with 123's over cr2's as a power source. The 123's are more readily available in general and there are more sources for low-priced, high-quality 123's than there are for cr2's.
Also, 123's have a huge advantage in energy-density over the cr2's. For example check out these Run-Time Plots - Fire~Fly II-CR2 by Roy and this_is_nascar. Roy's Fire~Fly runs three times as long with a 123 as it does with a cr2. TIN gets a bit over twice the runtime with a 123 as he does with a cr2. The slightly smaller size of the cr2 just doesn't make up for its disadvantages.
For similar reasons, I would also recommend sticking with AAA powered lights over n-cell powered ones. AAA's are cheaper, easier to come by, and store more energy than n-cells. Rechargeable AAA's are much easier to find than rechargeable n-cells and don't require any adaptor or special charger. Also, you can now get lithium AAA's. The slightly shorter length of the n-cell just doesn't make up for the advantages of the AAA (plus the AAA is thinner).
I will be coming out with a CR2 or CR123 light fairly soon. As for the key-Lux N-Cell, I might switch this to a AAA-Cell light and make adapters for people that would like a shorter light they can use the N-Cell. The N-Cell is about .500 shorter than the AAA. I was looking for what battery types people are interested in. Now I have some input. I think the AAA would be a much more usable light using the AAA instead of N-Cells.
When I come out with the CR123 powered light I will also make a battery tube for people that want to use a CR2 battery.
Yeah, I was a little surprised. When I ordered mine, the website said there were 3 available, then I find out I won't get mine till possibly January. Not cool. I would have waited, or maybe picked up one on B/S/T or bought something else.
[ QUOTE ] TnC_Products said:
When I come out with the CR123 powered light I will also make a battery tube for people that want to use a CR2 battery.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for taking the time to ask and listen to our suggestions. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
This may or may not be cost effective, but a light designed around a CR2 (not a CR123 with a CR2 battery option) would help make the light as small as possible.
For example, with the FireFly II, the head bulges a bit when you use the CR2 battery--after all, the head is designed for something that wider than the CR2.
That's my take, anyhow, since for one cells, I want something that is as small/thin as possible.
The CR2 formfactor permits a cylindrical flashlight which will drop into the battery compartments of most 123A lights. With an aperature of .53" and cut down so17xa reflector, the resulting length can be less than 2", which includes a full 1/8" for lanyard attachment. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]
I personally have zero interest in a CR2-based light. I'd be potentially interested in a CR123-based light, but only if it had a dual-output beam, reflector, and a form factor akin to the Arc LS with twisty. I'd potentially be interested in an AAA-based light.
What I *would* be interested in is bigger lights. I'd love to have a Lux3 light with reflector and dual-level beam running on 3 C cells. Similar for Lux5 running on C or D cells. I'd also be interested in a 2xAA Lux3 light with reflector and dual-level beam. (Yeah, basically I'm looking for Elektrolumens lights with reflectors and better build quality. Nothing against Wayne; I'd just see them in slightly different niches. Wayne's stuff is decent quality for the price, whereas I'd want something that is very good with no "for the price" qualifier.)
I think most users want a pocket light that's as small as possible. Some people would be willing to sacrifice runtime to achieve the teeny tiny CR2 form factor, but I'd guess that most people who would be willing to spend a triple digit figure on a light would prefer extended runtime, unless the size difference is major (e.g. LarryLight CR2)
I still can't understand why no one has mass produced, (at least along the lines of the VIP or Lionheart) a high quality CR2 light.
Larry's lights are the ultimate as far as I am concerned, and yet he hasn't been able to make them available in any significant numbers.
I've tried everything to wheedle one out of someone who has one on of Larry's lights and had no success, which is a testament to Larry's craftsmanship and to the individuals desire to have a light this size.
The constant, top to bottom same size of Larry's light is the hook as far as I'm concerned. The smaller body, large head idea negates that, so lights based on 123's with CR2 bodies just don't have much appeal.
For a pocket light, runtime is a secondary issue for me, and I suspect for most. I want a light that will run long enough to handle unexpected problems, and/or get me to my vehicle or house to get more lights/batteries. Generally speaking, 20 minutes is more than sufficient for that. Anything more is gravy!
I would love to be the one to do it, but small lights are far beyond my skills, I'm your basic large bodied, (in more ways than one!) hotwire guy. And even that is tough!
A high quality, reasonably priced CR2 light is my dream light for EDC, until then, I'll carry my VIP and my A2.