BlackShadow
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 39

Thread: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

  1. #1

    Default Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Hey everyone,

    OK, here's a draft review/analysis of the shootout.

    It was quite difficult to examine and compare these lights because of many factors, so i'll try to explain as well as I can. All the while trying to keep it as simple (?) or clear as possible.

    It's hard to completely characterize each light into a particular group, but relatively speaking, I could group them in the following way:
    a) Flood-biased lights (Surefire Beast, X990 flood mode)
    b) Spot-biased lights (Cmacclel's HID, Sway's Blitz HID)
    c) Uber-output lights (Sleeper, Ken4, Ken5)
    d) "regular" lights(a mixture of spot/flood) - The rest

    Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, and I will cover each light in more detail, but I think it's a good point to start.

    Let's examine the zoom photos set first.
    Be sure to look at the WHOLE picture, not just the center.
    The photos are organized in relative order. Lights that are similar to each other are grouped together for better viewing.

    First of all, the Wolfeyes is, politely put, very disappointing. It was by far the dimmest in the group. Not much to say.
    The Surefire Beast was next up, the X990 in flood mode was a bit better. As expected, these flood-biased lights seem quite dim in the center.

    The next 3 (Stock Thor, Havis-Shields, X990) were quite close. The thor actually looks almost the same as the Havis-Shields except for the color.
    If I HAD to compare, I would say that the Havis-Shields seems to have the hottest spot, but the X990 shows the most area(look at the tree on the right).
    All in all, the 3 could be said to be of equal performance.
    The Kenrad looks like the X990, but is clearly brighter. Although the ground on the X990 seems just a tad brighter.
    The KumKang ups the ante on the Kenrad. The hot spots are a close call, but look at the ground and background.
    The boosted thor seems to light the target tree the brightest of this group. The ground is a bit brighter on the Kumkang though.

    The next 4 are a bit different than the ones before them.
    The 35W mode of Cmacclel's HID looks like a boosted version of the Havis-Shields. The 50W mode does even better.
    Sway's Blitz HID mod is quite impressive in it's hot spot. It really did remind me of a Maxabeam. The 35W hot spot is brighter than the 50W hotspot of Cmacclel's HID, but you can see that the background is very dark (still better than the wolf eyes, though).
    Other than the 35W mode of Cmacclel's HID, the beams of these lights makes it extremely difficult to compare to the group before.
    I could make some guesses of the relative light outputs, but it would be just that. A guess.
    Remember, these are just the zoom shots. You must look at the wide angle shots as well to truly judge the performance of a light, so let's move on for now.

    Next, we come to the uber output lights. The one shot that I wanted to take over in this shoot..... the Ken4 was aimed lower than all the others (look at the ground). If it had been aimed better, the tree would've been better illuminated as well as the objects in the background. How much better?
    I don't know. What I do know is this. The sleeper is clearly brighter than the Ken4. So the ken4 aimed correctly would've been a slightly darker version of the sleeper pic.
    Just for fun, I put a Ken4 bulb into a Blitz 240 reflector to see how it would perform with a large reflector. It did real good. The center is clearly brighter than any other light (except the Ken5).
    The Ken5 was the brightest light of the whole group. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Enjoy, and let me know what you all think.

    P.S. The Ken5 is NOT a Blitz 240 mod. I simply used the blitz 240 reflector body as a test mule for the Ken5. If I were to make a "real" Ken5, it would be in a all-in-one rechargeable body.


  2. #2
    Silver Moderator
    SilverFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Bellingham WA
    Posts
    11,652

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Hello Kinshiro,

    Thanks for putting this up. What a great bunch of lights.

    Tom

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* IsaacHayes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,876

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    wow, the ken 4/5 are almost as much as the sleeper landing light!! Only way smaller... Where can I find more about those mods?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    What is the sleeper? how much and where do you get one??

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* CroMAGnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Los Gatos, CA
    Posts
    2,540

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Andreas: Welcome to CPF. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The Sleeper is a custom 1-off mod made by Sway. Do a search with "The Sleeper" in the title only and you will find the thread easy.

    BTW Why the heck is it called the sleeper anyway? It's nawt stealthy, and it sure doesn't make one 'sleepy' when within it's proximity... I can think of a few good names for it though.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif[/img]

  6. #6
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oregon- United States of America
    Posts
    4,946

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    It would be great to have a one picture shot of all the lights, including any power sources they need, with each identified.

    Another neat thing would be to have selling price identified.


    When comparing these photos, what really helps me cut to the chase, is to look at the trunks of the two trees behind the tree in front. An example would be the KumKang vs. the boosted Thor.


  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Sway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    [ QUOTE ]
    CromagNet said:
    Andreas: Welcome to CPF. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The Sleeper is a custom 1-off mod made by Sway. Do a search with "The Sleeper" in the title only and you will find the thread easy.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    "The Sleeper" is Crosman451's baby not mine but thanks! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Later
    Kelly

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* CroMAGnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Los Gatos, CA
    Posts
    2,540

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Oh Duh! That's right... Now I remember... You posted the pics... Sorry Crosman [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* IsaacHayes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,876

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    I second NewBie's idea. I'd like to see what the lights look like as well!!

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* Sway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Last edited by Sway; 12-29-2005 at 01:40 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Sway, I actually have melted the Blitz reflector in the past. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I have used the Blitz reflector as my test mule for about 3 years now. It is a very good unit.

    BTW, if you don't need your light immediately, do you think I might keep it a while longer? I want to use it for another test I have in mind.

    Thanks.

    Oops, I got to post the wide angle shots......

  12. #12

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Now for the wide angle shots.
    Once again, the wolfeyes is a clear last. Not much to say (actually, a lot to say, but mostly negative, so I'd rather not).

    The next two are close. The Thor and the Hasvis-Shields is once again almost the same, save the color. It's actually quite rare to have 2 lights be so similar in both the zoom and wide shots. However, here you can see the "rings" of the Thor compared to the relatively smooth beam of the Havis-Shields. That's simply a result of the different sources of light (filament vs. arc).

    Cmacclel's HID at 35W seems to give similar performance as the aforementioned 2 lights. It has a better center beam, but the foreground is a little dimmer than the Havis. Sway's Blitz HID is dimmer still in the foreground, as most of the light is going to it's focused center. The 50W modes perform just like they should. Same beam, more output. Cmacclel's HID at 50W is not only brighter in the center than the Havis, but the foreground also seems just a tad brighter as well. The 50W mode of Sway's light continues to impress with it's hot center, and the foreground doesn't seem that much brighter than it's 35W mode. Meaning that it really is doing a great job of collimating most of the light generated by the arc source.

    The Kenrad and the X990 spot mode are also very close. The kenrad is clearly stronger in the center, but the X990 has the brighter foreground.
    The Boosted thor seems to be brghter in both the center and the foreground than both the Kenrad or the X990.

    The next three performed very well in the wide angle shots. The X990 flood mode does what is should. Give out a good, wide smooth beam of light. The Surefire beast is finally in it's element, illuminating the widest area of all the HIDs. However, I am most impressed with the Kumkang. Not only is the foreground illuminated as much as the X990 FLOOD, but it does this without losing it's hot center!
    BTW, I should mention that this Kumkang has no spot/flood mode. Unlike the 1st generation model, this model has a fixed focus. But it seems to be giving the best of both worlds.

    The uber lights..... The Ken4 with the Blitz 240 reflector had the dimmest foreground of the group (but still able to absolutely destroy everything else), but you can see the strong center eclisped only by the Ken5. The Ken4's downward aim is again apparent in these photos. It has the brightest light of all for the ground area under the tree. The sleeper had the brightest overall foreground, being slightly more broad than the Ken5. The Ken5, however, clearly has the most powerful beam in the center area, as well as an area beam almost as wide as the sleeper.

    Here's the hard part. How do you correctly compare/analyze the beams given below? Here's one good way to do it:
    1) The tree is 150 yards away. That means it is easier to illuminate something close to the bottom of the photo. As you get closer to the tree (or even beyond), it takes a MUCH larger amount of light to make a difference. This means you must "weigh" the apparent brightness differently. For instance, if one light is brighter in the bottom, but another light is brighter further away, and both seem to be equal overall, the second light is probably putting out more lumens.
    2) Compare the X990 spot and flood modes. Both are giving out exactly the same lumens. But can you see how much foreground brightness must be sacrificed to make a subtle difference in the middle? Amazing isn't it?

    Enjoy!


  13. #13
    Flashaholic* MaxaBaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Awsome pics Kenshiro [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    The reviews in the beginning help a lot to get a better understanding of the whole thing.

    My question is, how much did the total Ken5 cost to build?
    My question is inspired by the fact that Crosman's Sleeper must have been a $1000 for it to be completely built (at least [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif[/img]). If your Ken5 isn't that expensive, you may just have to open a factory and build these things [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Anyway, if you look at the last two wide angle pictures, it is very apperant the sleeper has more flood/sidespill while the Ken5 focuses the light into a tighter beam. Good luck using your technique above to find which one actually puts out more light [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Sway, I also am a lover of throw, and your Blitz set on 50w is freakin' awsome!!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Tell us when and how much it will be to order a Ken 5. How much could you get the cost down to if you had enough volume.

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Kiessling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany, Old World
    Posts
    16,140

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    I suppose you are talking of the KenRad PSL35 and not the UDL-35 divelight?

    bernhard

  16. #16

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    [ QUOTE ]
    Kenshiro said:
    Sway, I actually have melted the Blitz reflector in the past. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I have used the Blitz reflector as my test mule for about 3 years now. It is a very good unit.

    BTW, if you don't need your light immediately, do you think I might keep it a while longer? I want to use it for another test I have in mind.

    Thanks.

    Oops, I got to post the wide angle shots......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do tell Kenshiro, might there be some 1,500yd shots from the same location that you did the others from? That would be awesome to see, Maxabeam, Megaray (new and 'improved' version) against the CPF mods.

    If someone has a decent digicam I can use, I could lend my photographic skills, and bring gourmet quality freshly made homemade sushi- lots of toro, blue crab handrolls, etc; or better yet on a cold night, freshly bambosteamer heated, quality Dim Sum (is this planned test going to happen before or after Feb. 9th?...week of Chinese New Years celebration)? I'd love to see the long throwers in action.


    I'm not going to build it, but in due time, I expect Ginseng to follow up on my lead for 'something' interesting in the 10k lm overdrive range, that could just make a Ken4 style/sized light, with a more tight hotspot at a X990 price point?...just speculation on my part for now though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Yeah, IIRC there is that Osram projector bulb at 24v that's in the 16,000lm range, but as these tests show you need really larger and larger reflectors when using the high wattage broad point source filaments (same would apply to higher wattage, non-short arc HID's) if you want to focus for longer throw...until there comes that super expensive Maxabeam mod. using 2mm gap Ushio 200w HID capsule [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The auto HTI capsule used in the BlitzHID mod is a 4.2mm gap, so going with a smaller reflector, would lose that narrow beam quality that some of us just lust for. As usual the SF products have a desired outcome, looks to be the most uniformly bright, smooth flood you can buy now...hehe, for 3 grand, that is.

    Megaray being and exception because it is using optical lens system instead of pure reflector.

    PS, thanks for keeping the pictures small enough for us 56k dial-up users to load in less than a day [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], much appreciated!

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Sway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Last edited by Sway; 12-29-2005 at 01:42 PM.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* MaxaBaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Sway,

    Look at the pictures above and just try to tell me you aren't going to miss your HID Blitz [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    I mean, the Blitz has gotta be at least twice as powerful as the Havis-Shields. (Poor, poor sad Blitzless Kelly) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  19. #19

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    [ QUOTE ]
    BakerOnFire90 said:
    Sway,

    Look at the pictures above and just try to tell me you aren't going to miss your HID Blitz [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    I mean, the Blitz has gotta be at least twice as powerful as the Havis-Shields. (Poor, poor sad Blitzless Kelly) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can personally attest that the HID Blitz is a true super light. The beam is magnificent, the housing is rugged and the sucker runs 55-60 minutes. And you can strap the tiny power pack to the back of the hand holding the reflector and won't even notice the weight. For toss and forget use, the X990 gets the nod, but for demanding practical long distance illumination the HID Blitz just can't be beat. Sway has really achieved something significant here.

    Wilkey

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* MaxaBaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Yes, I would very much like to build one of these but I hear that the mod is pretty tough compared to a lot of other things. Plus, my self assurance is very low at the moment considering I can't even get a simple Mag85 to work. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

    But, I saw the pictures from Phazer Phest 3 (which I plan to attend if there is another, if I'm allowed ofcoarse) and it looks sweet. That Blitz is what kicked me into overdrive to collect powerful flashlights. I will build one of those someday...... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* Sway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Last edited by Sway; 12-29-2005 at 01:43 PM.

  22. #22
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    La Tiquicia
    Posts
    13,244

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Sleeper [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] Sleeper [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] Sleeper [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Man, I so want one of those! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    *Retired* NewBie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oregon- United States of America
    Posts
    4,946

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Okay, I assume the THOR is by and far the lowest cost out of all those lights. What would be the next one up, as far as price?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    I would love to hear the details of the ken4 and 5 shooters

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* MaxaBaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    The Havis-Shields cost just under $200. Probably the second cheapest.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* Sway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Last edited by Sway; 12-29-2005 at 01:44 PM.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic Crosman451's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Mooresville, NC
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    I've been on vacation for the past 4 plus weeks!! Little or no time for internet access.

    The Shoot Out 2 is done I see and man does it look great. Hats off for the hard work and time put into this.

    I guess for my "Sleeper" being conceived and built about a year or more ago, it really did not fair that bad concidering the company.

    My next version of this will be hard to beat....

  28. #28

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Cros,

    Your Sleeper is a heckuva piece of work. Unique in this company because of its light engine and the totally custom head. You, and your creation, should hold your heads high.

    Wilkey

  29. #29
    Flashaholic Crosman451's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Mooresville, NC
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Thanks Ginseng, coming from you, I really appreciate it!

    After building it way back then I did not know how it stacked up to the field of super lights. Shoot, back then, I really did not know there was even a following of such super lights. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* MaxaBaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Super Shootout 2 pics and review

    Hey Crosman,
    Welcome back from vacation [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif[/img]

    Even though the Ken5 may throw further, your Sleeper definitly puts out more light into the flood arena. From non-zoomed shots, I think it looks like yours is brighter.

    Don't let anyone forget that the Sleeper is a year old, and that it is made to the toughest standards being made from very strong aluminum where as the Ken5 seems to be made out of a lightforce 240. (I don't think they are as durable). I would be willing bet a lot that most CPFers today would definitly choose a Sleeper for their collection over a Ken5. But, don't forget that the Ken5 is still a prototype. Also, the Ken5 is a flashlight that brings new meaning to the word "throw" for incans.

    O ya, WE ALL AWAIT THE MIGHTY SLEEPER 2 !!!! (or whatever the new name is) (I believe you said before that you were planing on using a 1000watt bulb next time- is this still accurate?)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •