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Thread: SIGN UP:The Flashlight Reinvented(CAD)

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    It's not clear to me how the heat from the LED
    is transfered to the body. Unless the LED is mounted
    on a thick heatspreader (say 1/4 inch) I don't see
    how the extra surface area of the body helps.

    Thanks - Greg

  2. #32

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    My hand is my best heatsink. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  3. #33

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    [ QUOTE ]
    Here only the negative contact is exposed to the water..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OK, I am going to get in trouble with the EE's here but this isn't really true is it? Don't you have the - of the battery and then the housing has the potential of + through the converter? I suggest that if you were to sit that fellow in a glass of salt water that you could possibly watch some bubbles and activity between the battery and the tail of the light. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    I believe you have an anode and cathode exposed there. I would guess that you wouldn't want any metalic pocket lint either. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I didn't realize a mill could cut the filet on the switch ring and then transist to the straight of its attachment beam. Cool!

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    First the answers;
    1.) Yes
    2.) No
    3.) Greg beat me to it, but maybe "Gat-Light"
    P.S. I think "Reactor" is being used by CMG

    I love the copper screws, but man what a pain and potential for loss/damage especially since this is designed to run on rechargeables only ! (better ship with extras !)

    Very cool concept ! Surface area is clearly very high compared to a single body tube, but I too am not sure it is going to all work as heat sinking. That said, at the very least the open design will certainly dissipate alot more heat simply through air conduction.

    The switch is going to be a bear to get right ! (tensile strength -vs- maleability -vs- durability taking into account the variations in users finger strength) Make your life a little easier, put a little spring loaded piston in the head of your "lollipop" or a screw down contact.

    Truly very very cool though ! Count me in for one when it's all sorted out. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goodjob.gif[/img]

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Ok I think it's time to address a couple of things with more renderings.
    cathode/anode exposure issue I rendered this section cut with contours.

    The way the light works is that the screws in the back push the battery towards the ORing. Which seals off the positive battery contact. The same thing is done for the front. Where the screws create pressure and press the optics against another ORing. So the water sealed zone is created between optics and battery. This only leaves the cathode exposed. Then the (-Negative) connects to the driver through the fuel rods. The positive battery contact is connected to the driver the o-ring sealed area. A normal flashlight conects the cathode through the housing to the driver as well. So I don't see much of a difference. However I am not an EE. Now if this would be a problem. I would simply move the switch somewhere else and add an extra ORing in the back, to seal off the cathode. However it doesnt make sense to me that the cathode needs to be sealed off. By the way the sandwich contact will have a spring soldered to the contact (spring is not represented in the renderings - Haven't figured out yet how to do a spring).

    heatsinking Ok another rendering where you can see the center section which houses the sandwich (with emitter and driver)to answer that one.

    Well we have several parts that create heat. First the battery. Since the battery is exposed, there will be excellent heatsinking for the battery - battery is a heatsink itself. Then the driver is inside a sandwich case (green right now in the first picture), while the emitter is on top of the sandwich case. So their heat gets transfered to a copper sandwich case (green in the first picture - to represent dimensions), which then transfers the heat straight to the middle part. The "fuel rods" of the middle section then heatsink and conduct the heat through the copper screws to the bottom and the top part which both have another set of "fuel rods" for heatsinking.

    Wear of the mechanical switch. The distance between battery and switch contact is very thin (about 1mm). Even though the renderings make the light look big. It is a really tiny light - just look at the picture above with the AA battery comparision. So there isn't really so much bending going on with only 1mm play. I have a Laser Pointer which has the same mechanism but about 3mm to bend - and it works just fine. The spring loaded piston is a good idea, thanks Dr. Joe!!! Need to look into that.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    People are getting runtimes os about 25 minutes with a R123 and a LuxIII driven at 1000mA, and I doubt you'll get the same runtimes with a LuxV ant spec.

    The SF L4 is slightly underdriven at about 660mA and a larger light that still has heat problems. Since you are removing trhe human hand and liquid cooling system (blood) from the heatsinking process I doubt your light will do better. And I also doubt you will getr 120lm out the front end, especially when using an optic.

    Length tolerance ... as I interpret your renderings, the light relys on pressure from the back to the middle and from the front to the middle to make a proper seal via compressed o-rings, and that just sounds less sure than o-rings lying between a tailcap and a battery tube ...

    bernhard

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    The big difference between your light and a normal light isn't that there's a charge on the body, but that the switch is exposed to water between the negative end of the battery and the body's contact.

    The problem is in the design, that allows water to get into places where it shouldn't be. In normal lights the battery is sealed from moisture, in yours it isn't, and it will rust if exposed to water and current.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Mobile1,

    That is beautiful from an industrial design perspective, reminds me of VW when it first introduced the new Bug! Anyway, there are few suggestions:

    1) If you make a very thin stainless/ tube encasing the battery, and placed it inside all the external rods, it will be just as cool. ( Play with color contrast.. example gold inner tube with silver external rods, or Red tube with silver external rod. ) This will take care of the corrosion factor and still keeping the cool Gattling gun look.

    2) Keep the screws, but create another separate battery cap that screw into the inner metal tube mentioned above.

    3) NX01 I think uses the total internal reflection concept to focus all light internally and out through the front. Now, if this is exposed to water, the water has a different Index of Refraction compared to Air, and it will “Index Matching” and this change of Plastic/Air interface to Plastic/Water interface which can altered the index and lead to the lost of the “Total Internal Reflection” property. Light will be dispersed and spilled into the water from the side of the optic.

    4) If environmental elements such as sand or salt water causing corrosion leading the rupture of the battery.. Then one needs to consider the chemical leaking out into the user’s hand.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I am an EE and I will say that when the light is off
    the contact of the push button will be roughly at a
    battery voltage (if you measure with a high impedance
    meter) and the battery bottom is at 0 volts. So if it's
    submerged in water there will be a current flowing and
    thus galvanic corrosion. So your idea of sealing the back
    and using another o-ring is best.

    When wet from rain, as long as there is no raindrop between
    the contact and the battery bottom you likely would be
    okay.

    Greg

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Endeavor, Greg & AmorphousThanks for both of your feedback. So corrosion happens when there is a contact, but not when there is just current. Now wouldn't the encasing have the same problem as the battery. There would still be a contact. The only way to have no -exposed- contact would then be to remove the switch in the back, use an extra Oring to seal the negative contact with the pressure from the screws.
    Thanks for explaining the NX01 principle. Makes sense. I'll do a test and see what happens. However the light is not supposed to be a diving light, so I wouldn't care so much if there is a huge amount of sidespill under water.
    Greg Thanks for explaining and the O-Ring evaluation

    Endeavor/Greg: What if I would use a gold plating or chrome satin plating. They both have excellent corosion resistance. Do you think this would solve the problem?
    :-) Gold plating the entire thing would create quite a different - quite fascinating look (See rendering :-)



    I would have to see how the switch could be redesigned to use an extra ORing. Also I am interested to see the underwater reaction of the NX01. Thanks again to everyone for pointing these two issues out.



    Kiesling Well the human hand is part of the cooling process in this light as well. Why a compressed ORing is less sure then one between two parts I don't understand. At the end you design it so that the ORing is compressed by 30% for optimum results. Whether its between to tubes, or as a compression like here doesn't make a difference. And well the output is a regulated 5W driven at 700mA and an NX01, that's what I can guarantee. Whether this is 120Lu (what Lumileds claims) or more (with a W-Bin) or less, I don't know. However this light will have much less problems with heatsinking then the SF - at the end it's geometry. Heatsink area here is more then twice as large. Regarding runtime. Well 3.6V, 700mA and a 7.2V LED. deduct 15% driver loss. Should be about 25+min. George is doing some runtime tests so, I can tell more when he is done with those.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    The corrosion problem is with the battery, not the aluminum.

    Water is a corrosive substance. Oxygen in the air is corrosive. Salt Water is corrosive.

    The problem is that you have the battery exposed to the elements, and it will rust if given the opportunity, just from sitting in the air.

    Leaving it open as you have now allows water to get in between the negative contact/button of the case, and the battery ground. When this happens, current will pass through the water and complete the circuit, and will cause the battery to oxidize very quickly.

    Aluminum oxidizes the instant it's exposed to air - it usually doesn't oxidize much further, since the thin layer of rust it forms protects the rest of the metal. Anodizing is an increase in the size of the oxide layer, which forms pores and it often dyed. You can make aluminum corrode into powder by covering it in mercury. (I don't recommend you try it)

    Back to the main focus, however, the problem is that you're allowing water into the inner workings of the light. You must have a sealed battery compartment such that no water can enter, period, or you'll have a whole mess of problems, unfortunately.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Thanks for clarifing. Well from a design point of view having an exposed battery looks very nice. Now if I use a flat back, and an other ORing in the back to seal off the negative part, that would work. In that case only the plastic wraping which can't corrode would be exposed. This would require however a regular switch - into the area where the driver is.
    Having a switch close to the driver area, would allow for brightness regulation (driver suports it). This however would lengthen the light about half an inch.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Working on my own light, I understand what a pain it can be sometimes with suggestions, comments, criticism, etc. Whatever I say I mean constructively, and if it deviates from your own vision of the work, by all means follow your own ideas.

    First and foremost, I recommend sealing the electronics and battery compartments completely. I'm sure this isn't a dive light, but it's not worth risking failure of those areas under any situation.

    Aside from the NX-01 not being an available optic, any optic doesn't provide a seal onto the LED itself, which would allow small particles to get trapped under the optic (I'm thinking water). I don't know exactly how you've designed the light, but it may not be too good for water to be touching the LED itself - I'll let someone else discuss that though, since I've not had any experience with running LEDs immersed in water.

    Looking at the cross sections, it seems like you've got the light sealed at the optic. Assuming it works as expected and water doesn't creep in, it should be fine.

    Eight screws is a bad idea. Having to remove any screws at all really turns me off, since I know I won't be getting great runtimes out of a single battery.

    My suggestion would be to make sure the LED, optic, driver, etc. are all well sealed in your current setup, and to change the battery pack area to a standard tube setup, if you will, and have it screw on and off. I would also recommend the use of two standard CR123 Lithium batteries (or two rechargeables, if the driver can handle it), and extend the case by that amount.

    It may not be quite as elegant as before, but the question then would be whether you want the light as a tool, or if you want the light as a collectors item. I, personally, like to get as much functionality as I can out of my lights, but others think differently than I.

    Also, in my experience with the Luxeon V, if you drive it off a single battery, even, say, an XW0T for example, it will not be as bright as possible, and look rather green on the 'white wall test'. When driven at 6 volts, though, it's quite a bit more impressive.

    I do think that if you made a fully sealed pack that you twist on and off, and requires no screws to remove, you'd have a lot more takers.

    Just my two cents - like someone mentioned in the CR2 thread, if you let a committee design your light, you'll end up with an elephant, and a pink one at that. Aside from fixing the 'real' technical flaws, do whatever you feel is best. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Well you know I really appreciate everyones feedback. There is so much knowledge out there, much more then I could ever learn myself. Besides I would be upset if I had produced the light. Right now it's only a CAD design which is simple to change. To avoid a pink elephant or just an other simple cylindar type light, these are the characteristics what I want this light to be:

    <ul type="square">[*]1) water sealed
    [*]2) gattling/fuel rod look for looks and heatsinking
    [*]3) exposed battery and optics and leaving out a rod - just because it has never been done and it adds character.
    [*]4) Lux 5W (or 2x3W - wouldn't work with exposed optics) driven at specs. However with variable brightness[/list]
    Now these are the issues that need to be fixed:
    [*] 1) Corosion: when submersed in water
    Solution: An ORing and a flat back will fix that. Integration of a small IPV67 switch (have a couple of samples coming)
    [*] 2) Runtime: George just completed a runtime test with a protected R123, a fatman driving a LuxV at 700mA. The battery shut down after 7min continues on (drawing 1.7Amps at 3.2V) before shutting down. He said in order to allow a constant current at max brighntess, a 2.2A discharge without the battery protection kicking in would be required.
    Solution: Either someone finds an R123 with a protection&gt;2.2A. Or my prefered choice to use the drivers brightness regulation. So that brightness level can be adjusted. This still leaves the 7min max brightness continues on. However then the light can then be switched to a lower level to "recover".
    [*] 3) Screws Well these are the options: 1) Keep the screws or give up the Gattling fuel rod look by using a twist mechanism.

    At the beginning I stated what I want this light to be. So back to the drawing board, to redesign the light fix these issues while staying true to what I want this to be like.

    This will probably mean that the screws will stay (reduction from 7 to 4). However I'll add the other advantage which this screw design brings, the extendible battery case. Think of it like a radio antenna. Extend the case without adding anything. Also powering this light with 2x123 should give you continues max 5W power for a long run time.

    The challenge is to make all these changes and stay within milling specs!! Oh and maybe I'll find a way to do it without the screws.... :-)

  15. #45

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    1. Maybe you should wait until the new Lumileds 5W are released. Aren't they supposed to be more efficient?

    2. How many people are actually going to take this light into the ocean/diving? I freak out if a little sweat gets on my Lionheart or BB, so I would never think of taking something this nice anywhere near water.

    Flavio

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    BugOut - thats a valid point. The light would still be water, dust etc sealed, except for the corrosion. Maybe even offer the otion to order the light with a 3W @ 1000mA. (this would also cut the price by $25 to 30). Those who want braging rights for several 7min continues on could still go for a 5W.

    I'll see what a regulated brightness level version with switch would look like. Then have people vote.

    What I really like about this design is that it is clean and simple. Besides this light would look like a piece of art - imagine holding such a light - maybe even a gold plated version - wouldn't this be pretty much out of this world :-) ....

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I think you should stick to your(gatling) "guns"(pun intended) and keep the light as close to your original concept as you can(and engineering allows).Your initial post was,after all,"the flashlight reinvented". I look forward to watching this evolve and certainly would consider buying one if it pans out.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    just a point that I thought may be valid. This light's rubber o-rings would have considerably more exposure to heat-cold-air, etc since its not wedged between battery case and tailcap/head. Thus they may be faster to become stiff and subsequently have to be replaced. If this is true, you may consider giving spare o-rings and/or find a high quality rings [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I like the "fuel rod" look. Actually, I love it. I'm even willing to live with the screws -- as many of 'em as you like.

    I'm not that worried about water; it might rarely get rained on, it'll never get immersed.

    A 3W LED would suit me fine, instead of 5W.

    That tail switch could be trouble if it's aluminum. My understanding is that aluminum has elasticity 0: no matter how little you wiggle it, wiggling it causes metal fatigue (unlike in steel, where little wiggles are sustainable). Screw-through-hole or some such variant might work.

    I'd want the brightness to be adjustable, with at least 2 levels, preferably 3 or more: to extend battery life; because sometimes less light is preferable; and because it's just plain cooler.

    I admire expensive lights frequently, but buy them rarely. So, I probably wouldn't buy this one either, but I might. It is rather special.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    How about a glass tube for the battery compartment...or something clear.

    Use all the screws but make some of the holes on the back plate large enough so that the scews fit inside the holes but do not hold the back plate in ( false screws to keep the look ) maybe even thicker heads on the false screws so they still look functional.

    I've seen aluminum reflectors ( maybe even with chrome plating )...maybe one can be made with a rubber gasket to waterproof the led.

    If cooling is a problem - how about fins instead of rods

    I like the original design....I have a lot of practical lights.......maybe it's time for a companion for the Swiss time piece on the desk.

    Would like the single battery concept better.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Well sealing the battery compartment requires a new switch design. If we leave the same switch, using a glass tube, or acrylic wouldn't solve the corrosion issue. However I like the clear/glass idea... I'll see what I can do with it.

    I like the false screws. I could also just use shorter screws for half of them. Like this everyone can deside for themselves how many screws they want to use.

    Regarding fins, they would have to be interlocking as well, because otherwise it can't be milled out (mills are actually fairly limited). Also fins don't allow me to drill holes in them to hold the package together.
    Also an alluminum reflector would need 2 ORings and a front glass. One Oring to seal the glass, another one for the back to seal off the LED. I think using optics is much simpler, easier, and probably looks better too. Imagine if the light is turned on. The illuminated optics is probably glowing.

    Then two brightness levels would be hard to integrate, without changing the switch design. I might offer two versions, the 2nd version would have the fatman regulations with 8 or more brightness levels, as well as a regular switch. Disadvantage is that one would be considerably longer.

    So I will design this version with the variable brightness levels - the design won't be as straight and clean, and it will be longer.

    I will see to get a prototype done of this version without regulation (using a Lux3). Meanwhile design a version with a regular switch and brightness regulation. For some reason I like the clean design of this light. I am currently looking for a way to reduce costs (for example using 3d printing to produce a mold mor affordably...)

  22. #52

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    In all honesty, I would never take a flashlight this cool/nice looking anywhere that it would be in danger of being submerged. If I get one of these things after production starts, and it goes in the drink and is safely retrieved, I promise to post pics of all damage incurred for all to laugh at! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I got a couple of suggestions how to change the design to enable battery removal without requiring unscrew the 7 screws. Andrew suggested to add an extra thread in the back, then screw in the current switch. I should receive another suggestion, I'll see what's best then change the design, then go and have a prototype made.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Mobile, did you saw my suggestions?

    link


    Pablo

  25. #55
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I didn't see that post - LOL design moding, very nice!!! We should post the CAD files for that... so everyone can start modding them. By the way you seem to be using solidworks as well - however you have never redered the images. If you go to tools, then add ins and activate PhotoWorks, you can then use the wizzard which lets you render the images in a couple of seconds.

    Anyway to your design. I like the idea, to preserve the same look while completely sealing everything. Too bad the battery is not an R123. Also I am not sure the thin rods can be milled out. Did you look into this? It would be interested to see whether the design would work for an R123 sized battery....

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Yes I know... I don't have the patience to do a nice render [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Using an analogy, Im more an engineer than an architect [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Regarding the design, all the rods are the same and they dont need to be milled, just turned to size and on both ends drilled and inside threadeded, or if you prefer not to have the external screws, then turned and on both ends a protruding threaded screw to attach to top &amp; bottom.

    if you want to go with R123 that shouldnt be a problem, adjust the widths, rods are the same but smaller and voila!

    not drawn are the headless allen screws that connect the heatsink to the middle section, giving heat a path and closing the electric circuit.


    I may try it in the lathe if time allows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just need to find the proper acrylic tube.


    Pablo

  27. #57

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    "The Skellite" (skeleton light).

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I want one I want one I want one I want one.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    I think your Gat-Light is great. There are a variety of spray on waterproofing materials. Why not just spray or paint the battery before it goes in?

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Introducing: The Flashlight Reinvented (Design

    Pablo... I looked some more at your design. I like how the separate rods simplify the design so it can be made on a lathe. However the problem I see is that the acrylic tube isn't sealed with O-Rings on each end.
    You mentioned that you use headless allen screws to connect the middle section to the heatsink. Wouldnt this compromise water sealing?
    Then andrew wyn emailed me a smimilar mechanism to remove the battery other then removing all the screws, by using an extra screw thread at the bottom.
    Pablo - Can you explain how gadgetlovers switch works or is there a link in here?

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