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  1. #1
    Flashaholic* matt_j's Avatar
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    Default Does it bother you

    that in the world of faceless internet a 16 or 12 yo gives you an advice? You ask for an opinion and somebody half/third/fourth the age with no experience expresses his point of view using idealistic assumptions. It happened many times when after 1-2 years of participating in the forum discussions poeple realize that indepth conversations about survival/anything were taken between a 15 yo boy and you... Now how does the validity of his point and experience stack up now? Somebody is looking for camping tips and he gets an advice from a 13 yo that never been out in the woods. Just saying....

    Matt

  2. #2
    Flashaholic verbie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    well, i guess you just have to learn to let it go.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* DarkLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Or their opinion on Vegas?

    That one really cracked me up...

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* matt_j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Well true but lets say and I've seen it many times a newbie pops onto the board and asks a last minute advice about something. A youngster answers running his mouth from what he read, heard and saw on other postings. Newbie thanks him and goes off. Now there is a possibility that this newbie can get hurt becasue of the ill advice he got. Yes I let it go but still it is pretty mess up. I do understand that there are some 16 yo out there with more experience that some 50 yo but it is a pretty sticky situation.

    Matt

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* BatteryCharger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    [ QUOTE ]
    matt_j said:
    Newbie thanks him and goes off. Now there is a possibility that this newbie can get hurt becasue of the ill advice he got.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Newbie has now learned his lesson not to take advice from only one person.

  6. #6
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    again, i don't see how a 16year old is any more likely to spout off crap than a 50year old [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    like i said, i've seen that type of thing happen just as often with old people as with young people.
    the same could probably be said of foreigners, women, blondes and democrats [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* DarkLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    How bout everyone try not give advice unless they have firsthand and extensive experience on the subject.

    Conjecture and hearsay need not apply.....

    If you dont own the piece of equipment dont talk about it like you do....

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Verbie
    PM Sent

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    to be perfectly honest, i think i'd rather take advice from many an intellegent twelve year old them some of the 40 year old wackos out there...

    age and experience aside, while both important to many things, aren't the whole story.
    a kid with a good head on his shoulders and who's mature enough to act and speak responsably goes further in my book than someone who runs off his mouth just because he's been doing the same thing for 20years and he thinks he knows everything.

    sure, i've seen a lot of kids raised in todays society that are practically brainwashed into having no clue about the world around them, but i've seen just as many "adults" acting the same way [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

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    Flashaholic* BatteryCharger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    [ QUOTE ]
    Rothrandir said:
    a kid with a good head on his shoulders and who's mature enough to act and speak responsably goes further in my book than someone who runs off his mouth just because he's been doing the same thing for 20years and he thinks he knows everything.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I couldn't agree more. I visit alot of forums, and many of them have a resident "expert" or two. Usually they're also the resident a$$hole, and discredit good advice from other people just because they don't have the same experience. As far as I'm concerned, age is irrelivant if the advice is sound. If some 12 year old comes here and starts giving crappy advice, they will quickly be corrected. I believe there are quite a few very young people here and most (if not all) could give just as good of advice as many 40 year olds.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* gadget_lover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    I've always considered advice as being input. I never consider advice an "answer". I'll take advice from anyone, but I only act on it after I've validatated it myself.

    Like some said, a young person may have a valid opinion or a store of knowledge that makes for good advice. At one time, my 9 year old son knew more about paleontology than I did.

    Like others said, I (a 50 year old) may be full of .... on any particular subject.


    Daniel

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* TORCH_BOY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    I have had similar opinions from my children,
    does not bother me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Advice is simply someone's opinion on the subject. It may ro may not be worth much, or may be worth a lot. But that's the whole point of forums "Collective Knowledge". When you get the opinions of a large number of people, you can extrapolate a good and solid answer.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    I think you can pretty much figure out who knows what and why just from the post. If you're a newbie and take advice from your first response, well, buyer beware. BUT on the other hand,...

    I just blew a e2e incans reading about how it can be put in an L2. Eh, that was my fault, I was being stupid listening to dumb advice.

    So yes, I'd prefer people post answers if they actually had personal experience in the area (and not just read about it). OR, if they read about it, a nice reference to the previous post would be nice. So, yes it bothers me.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    [ QUOTE ]
    matt_j said:
    that in the world of faceless internet a 16 or 12 yo gives you an advice? You ask for an opinion and somebody half/third/fourth the age with no experience expresses his point of view using idealistic assumptions. It happened many times when after 1-2 years of participating in the forum discussions poeple realize that indepth conversations about survival/anything were taken between a 15 yo boy and you... Now how does the validity of his point and experience stack up now? Somebody is looking for camping tips and he gets an advice from a 13 yo that never been out in the woods. Just saying....

    Matt

    [/ QUOTE ]

    On a similar note, not long after I joined CPF, I locked horns with one of our youngsters here. He was trying to tell someone how to run his business. While I've never actually run a buisness myself, I KNOW I don't know enough about running a business to be able to advise someone else. I suggested he re-think his stance. Ummm... Oh well.... I have been closely enough involved to know there's more than meets the eye. Back to the point: all too often, the youngster thinks he knows everything.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Does it bother you

    I think what bothers me even more is when an adult tries to give opinions on things he knows nothing about or has no expertise on.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Esp since the adult usually is more convincing (language is more obvious and adult-like). Dumb adults are harder to wead-out than the teenagers.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    There's a flip side to that perspective, matt_j.

    I used to work for a man that was, for lack of a better term, a dumbass. Mind you, he wasn't completely incompetent, but on average, he tended to be a negative. It took me years to figure this to because he spoke with the authority of an older gentleman that was an expert in his field. He could talk the talk very well and blow smoke with such finesse that most didn't catch it. In the end his incompetence nearly cost me my job and cost him his position as engineering director.

    I'll make a conservative estimate that this man cost the company millions of dollars in delayed projects, engineering defects, cost overruns, and new products that were never designed because the department was correcting his other screwups.

    I lost a few productive years of my life because I listened to this man when my own judgdement was telling me not to.

    Nowadays, I don't take so much on faith. I will ask seemingly dumb questions to ferret out the reasoning for advice so I can separate the hacks from seasoned veterans.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Absolutely, it's not about age. Listen to yourself-the negative way to say this is, "assume you are smarter than everyone else-and work from there".

  20. #20
    Glowing admin B@rt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    I don't really care where the advise comes from, I'll scrutinize it anyways... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* matt_j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Well take two scenarios:

    1.
    You are in the store picking up a flashlight and a kid tells you go with surefire. Than eldery gentelman tells you to buy Inova.

    2. Same scenario but this time you are online and you don't know the ages of the people who gave you the advice.

    Now for both scenarios which flashlight would you buy if you both like Inova and Surfire equally?

    I know there are 12 yo out there who are smarter and have more wits about them than some 50 yo.

    Matt

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Pydpiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    If I need a quick answer I'll hunt out a member who seems to be knowledable, review their posts and the responses to their posts, if the responses are positive I then review the posts of that person, I then send a pm to that person for the advise. If I want more I will then post a topic, collect information and start that process all over again.
    I belong to a forum about my truck, now I have seperated myself from the majority of the population because in order to answer these questions we are seperated by a 50k truck. I know most of the members and where to seek advise when needed, here too.
    I think in order to benifit greatly from a forum you have to participate long enough to get a feel for who is who.. This can be misleading sometimes as well, but for the most part, it works.
    Sometimes a 12 year old has had an experience that I haven't, so their opinion is very important to me, but you have to be able to read between the lines. When scanning a topic I skip at least 2 member opinions completely, just because I know that post was there for the sole purpose of seeing their name in a thread.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* nethiker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    No, doesn't bother me, I actually enjoy it.

    Young people are hungry to learn and by nature love to show what they have learned. A common mistake of youth is to think you know more than you really do. Only experience can teach one the limits of personal knowledge, a lesson some people never learn. What's the saying, "The older I get, the less I really know."

    One thing I really enjoy about CPF is the diversity of the community, including the wide variety of ages. There are very few venues for young people to join with adults and participate together as equals. Part of the challange of modern society is to figure out what to do with our youth. There was a time when children were important to the family and society for what they contributed. Now they are often seen as a liability (mischief ridden vagabonds) until they are old enough to enter the workforce. The internet, and CPF gives our kids a way to participate in a meaningful way.

    I say I actually enjoy the sometimes frustration misdirection from young people, because it reminds me of where I have been and I gratefully honor my teachers in life by teaching others. Young people also offer an important perspective to many discussions. Inherent lack of experience provides a unique way of seeing. Kids especially are not hindered by prejudice and other preconcieved notions. It's refreshing for me to "see" through a youngsters eyes and try to remember what the world was like before I started filtering out more and more of what I thought to be unimportant.

    Greg.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* Pydpiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    [ QUOTE ]
    nethiker said:
    No, doesn't bother me, I actually enjoy it.

    Young people are hungry to learn and by nature love to show what they have learned. A common mistake of youth is to think you know more than you really do. Only experience can teach one the limits of personal knowledge, a lesson some people never learn. What's the saying, "The older I get, the less I really know."

    One thing I really enjoy about CPF is the diversity of the community, including the wide variety of ages. There are very few venues for young people to join with adults and participate together as equals. Part of the challange of modern society is to figure out what to do with our youth. There was a time when children were important to the family and society for what they contributed. Now they are often seen as a liability (mischief ridden vagabonds) until they are old enough to enter the workforce. The internet, and CPF gives our kids a way to participate in a meaningful way.

    I say I actually enjoy the sometimes frustration misdirection from young people, because it reminds me of where I have been and I gratefully honor my teachers in life by teaching others. Young people also offer an important perspective to many discussions. Inherent lack of experience provides a unique way of seeing. Kids especially are not hindered by prejudice and other preconcieved notions. It's refreshing for me to "see" through a youngsters eyes and try to remember what the world was like before I started filtering out more and more of what I thought to be unimportant.

    Greg.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nicely said Greg. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    [ QUOTE ]
    matt_j said:
    that in the world of faceless internet a 16 or 12 yo gives you an advice? You ask for an opinion and somebody half/third/fourth the age with no experience expresses his point of view using idealistic assumptions. It happened many times when after 1-2 years of participating in the forum discussions poeple realize that indepth conversations about survival/anything were taken between a 15 yo boy and you... Now how does the validity of his point and experience stack up now? Somebody is looking for camping tips and he gets an advice from a 13 yo that never been out in the woods. Just saying....

    Matt

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Who I'd listen to would depend:
    1. If the question required primarily intelligence, I'd listen to the person who seemed the smartest, regardless of age.
    2. If the question required primarily experience, I'd listen to the person who seemed to have the most real-world experience, regardless of age. (Although age *is* a big advantage in accumulating experience, there's no question about that!)

    All of my kid's and their 16 yo friends know more about tech than my XX yo mom. (Age censored to protect delicate feminine sensitivity.)

    On the other hand, if a question involved years of real-world experience, I'm going to listen to the person who seems to have that. Some stuff you just have to learn by experience.

    Sometimes older folks are inflexible and unwilling to change their thinking, even when the facts change significantly. (There are young people like this too - maybe it's just bull-headed people vs. everyone else?)

    As for young people who are overly enthusiastic and have unrealistic expectations about the world because of their lack of experience - this is often true. Then again, think of a middle-aged guy with an ego who thinks he knows it all. A lot of guys like that are afraid to admit they don't know the answer, and will MAKE UP stuff to cover it up. The male ego in midlife crisis is a frightening thing. (Just watch me sometime, I'll show you...) I have both of these things going on in my house right now, between me and my kids, and I don't know which one is worse!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    BTW, I do think that people who offer information on products they don't have (even if they are pretty sure it's factual information) should preface what they say with "I don't actually have this but..."

    I thought this was going to be a flame, but this is really an interesting and well-thought out topic! Kudos!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    Some are here to learn
    Some are here to do
    Some are here to talk
    Some are here to hear themselves talk

    As to the question above, I don't have a problem with the youngsters/newbie's because not so long ago I was one.

    I don't trust most of what I see on the net without proof from other sources. When I deal with a company with a web site and a catalog, I still ask for the catalog. Internet/web site information is so infrequently updated and or corrected as to be unuseable.

    Instead of buyer beware it's reader beware

    Leadfoot

  27. #27

    Default Re: Does it bother you

    ijust take in all advice then make a decsion based on all ive took in

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* koala's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    This has been meaningful to me...

    Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)
    ...Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than
    it’s worth...

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Unicorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does it bother you

    What bothers me most is when people give legal advice like they are experts. Ok, maybe they know the law for their area, but with federal laws and regulations, plus 50 states, DC, each with their own sets of laws, and counties with their own, and even cities with their laws. I get irritated when somebody from SE Florida, is giving legal advice to someone in Wyoming about what is or isn't legal to do/own.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Does it bother you

    > Does it bother you that in the world of faceless
    > internet a 16 or 12 yo gives you an advice?

    The internet is a democratic enviroment. Anyone can speak their opinion freely, regardless of qualifications. Democracy is a messy and confusing business, I don't consider it suitable for everyone. In practice "Anyone can speak freely" = Anyone can lie freely.

    One of the most important tools that you need in order to use the net effectively is a personal Bull Sh*t Detector. If you can't seperate signal from noise you will have severe problems here.

    >You ask for an opinion and somebody half/third/fourth the
    >age with no experience expresses his point of view using
    >idealistic assumptions.

    I treat strangers on the internet just like I do sales people. I toss them a soft, easy question that I already know the answer to. If they hit it out of the park I will be ready to respect and listen to them. If they have an ignorant answer I will still be polite to them, but I pay their opinion no real mind.

    >It happened many times when after 1-2 years of participating in the >forum discussions poeple realize that indepth conversations about >survival/anything were taken between a 15 yo boy and you...

    You are dealing with them mind-to-mind. There is a jewish saying that

    "you show someone into your house according to the cut of their clothes, but you show them out according to the cut of their conversation."

    In here you have to judge them by their mind. Some people have twenty-five years of experience in something. Some people have one years worth of experience repeated twenty-five times. You be the judge.

    >Now how does the validity of his point and experience stack up now? >Somebody is looking for camping tips and he gets an advice from a >13 yo that never been out in the woods.

    And if you bought it, and are sitting out on the playa in a r331yE nEyEt
    10nt made of aluminum foil, black plastic trash bags, more aluminum foil and duct tape, freezing you *ss off while pieces blow away in all directions and it attracts lightning from all across the county, well, maybe you need to recalibrate your Personal BS Detector.

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