man its bigs news down here that guy who killed the judge.they caught him very close to where i was about to go today but im going sunday instead the frys down here. man that was a crazy guy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
It's sooooo sad that with what had happened the day before (the shanks in his socks), that they let this happen the next day. The warning signs had already been recognized...sad, sad, sad! Maybe I don't have the whole story...
No doubt two tone. Now it's innocent until proven guilty?? How much proof do they need. Now it will drag on forever while they waste food and money on this guy. The news anchors piss me off with this alleged murderer BS!
When they finally count the cost -quite possibly the best judge in Atlanta,a defenceless court reporter and two fine LEO dead,another officer wounded and a woman who will need therapy for years after being held by this animal-then maybe some news anchor talking heads can just shut up and go stand in the corner!Sorry to sound mean.
Considering that the judge had asked for extra security only the day before, and the result of this request is that they allowed an individual woman to be in charge of this animal for a moment while he wasn't shackled, I think some of the staff themselves should be jailed. Clearly someone had abdicated their responsibility, especially in light of the judge's request. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
This will send a wake-up call around the country. Apparently this didn't violate any procedure, even with the weapon discovery the previous day, but that will be changing. One of the security folks I saw interviewed said it was difficult to get permission to handcuff defendants since it compromised their 'presumption of innocence'.
Its hard to belive this stuff happens. San Diego had to cancel an afternoon in one of its highest profile murder trials last year beacuse the defendant just walked out of the court house during a recess.
I, too, am tiring of the 'good guy who had a bad day' spin this guy has been getting.
This guy should have been waving the white flag at the courthouse. Its amazing someone so violent would surrender peacefully. If he had just done what the deputies had told him to do, there would be no lives lost. But this jerk has to kill FOUR people and THEN SURRENDER. This event should have never happened in the first place my opinion says.
[ QUOTE ] Mags said:
I heard that the security between the escort from jail to court thing was really weak. Is this true?
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Apparently so. From what I've heard, the shackling room is normally adjacent to the courtroom, but in this case it was in an adjacent building, so there was a long walk afrom this room to the courtroom where the perp wasn't in cuffs and was being escorted by a lone female guard. BAD IDEA.
Here we only release the handcuffs when the accused person is in the dock & it's done by an officer who is not carrying a sidearm. At any one time there are at least two officers on duty in the courtroom at least from what I know.
A few people have mentioned the fact the deputy was a woman. I understand where you are coming from but some women can handle a deadly force confrontation--and some men can't. I can think of two female LEOs locally--one whom I know--who smoked their attackers (in one case a big young man).
The weapons are equalizers but only if the officer uses them very quickly and effectively. At the academy, we watched the dashboard camera of a trooper (a big guy) who was wrestled to the ground and shot and killed with his own gun. It took about 4 seconds.
Might want to consider a "Tiger Trap" system before entering a courtroom. This is a empty space with two locking doors controlled by a person outside the locked space.
Prisoner can be escorted by armed personnel then an unarmed escourt goes in the first door with the prisoner, door locks, prisoner is unshackled and buzzed through the second locking door and escorted into the courtroom.
around here they don't even take the shackles off in court, at least not all the time. I was in traffic court last year (it was for expired license plates if you can believe that, let them slip by 6 days and got pulled over and written a ticket, anyhow I got off after paying for the new sticker [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) But they evidently don't have a just traffic court day and there were all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons going through the court that day. I watched 2 different men, one for assaulting his wife and another for trying to knife somebody brought before the judge in the red prison jump suit and still handcuffed or shackled!
I thought it was scary to mix the 2 types of things at first, but on later reflection I decided that it helped to keep someone's rolling through a stop sign in perspective if he was preceded by a guy who had tried to kill someone...
As far as how much it costs to bother with a trial for someone obviously guilty... I'm happy to pay for this jerk, so the next guy who might actually be innocent can get the same treatment.
Now it comes out that the court room was under CCTV surveilance the whole time. The slugs paid to sit at the monitor never noticed anything wrong during the whole incident!
So, we've got a guy on trial for a violent offense who tries to smuggle weapons into the courtroom. He is stopped in this first attempt and the judge asks for enhanced security for the rest of the trial. The very next day the same perp takes over the same courtroom, and as if somehow there doesn't seem to be enough incompetence involving the handling of violent offenders, the final link in the safety chain, the guards who are supposed to be watching the CCTV feed, are both asleep at the wheel.
This is a good example of how worthless CCTV cameras are in deterring many types of crime. Who is watching the monitor? If their attention span is so short that they can not monitor a court room under a heightened security alert, there is no chance that anything as boring as crime in front of your house will distract them from whatever it is that they do while being paid by the taxpayers.
Brian Nichols even had enough time to use the deputy's keys to get her gun from a security lockbox before they left the scene.
I'll bet that neither of the two guards paid to man the monitor will even receive a reprimand.
[ QUOTE ] JackBlades said:
James, it sounds like you were at court for arraignment. They take the shackles off at trial so the jury won't see them and develop an opinion biased towards guilt.
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I was thinking this too, they even make the prisoners get out of the orange/blue (whatever colour they are) jumpsuits into civi clothes as well don't they? All about presumption of innocence etc, bah. Its unbelievable that this guy will still get "presumption of innocence". Deadbeat.
I'm all for preserving the "presumption of innocence". Keep it low key for the jury. There have got to be some newer options for the 21st century. Put the defendant into one of those 120,000 Volt belts under his shirt/jacket so the jury won't see it. Have the remote control unit operated by someone in plainclothes a few feet away. No one will know WHO has the controller. Better yet, have TWO in plainclothes with controlers. It certainly wouldn't cost any more than the totally stupid way they are handling it now.
This is not rocket science. It's just a question of finding an approach that preserves the defendants rights and that even the crew who let him get away the first time could handle. Well, maybe that would be a lot to expect from a group that managed to totally fail in their duty in as many ways as they did in this case.
[ QUOTE ] Sub_Umbra said:
Put the defendant into one of those 120,000 Volt belts under his shirt/jacket so the jury won't see it. Have the remote control unit operated by someone in plainclothes a few feet away. No one will know WHO has the controller. Better yet, have TWO in plainclothes with controlers.
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I like this idea, Sub_Umbra. It preserves the presumption (or in this case, illusion) of innocence yet still keeps the suspect under control at all times. Sort of a modified "invisible fence."
What he did was wrong and he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison.
That said...(and we'll come back to it)
The lady he held hostage was very nice to him. She talked to him about God and made pancakes for him come morning. They watched the morning news together and he was in disbelief. She told him if he kept going he'd likely end up dead. Her husband was killed about 4 years ago in a stabbing incident. She ask the guy if she could go so she could see her daughter in a church function and that is when he surrendered.
Now I hope I haven't lost anybody to the quick reply for a flaming post, because I have more to say here...
I'm not saying we should let him go, I'm not saying he should be let off on mental illness, none of that is for me to decide, and I'm glad. I'm not saying a few hours and a spared life makes up for the loss of 3 others. I'm just saying it's pretty amazing that she was able to keep her cool and see some good in this man. It probably saved her life.
A very sad, very preventable situation to be sure. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I understand not wanting to prejudice a jury but WOW.
There was a guy in Tulsa, OK not too long ago that took it upon himself to throw a pitcher of water (I think?) at a judge. He was brought into court the following day strapped to the chair like Dr. Hannibal Lecter.