Shootings at another school in MN

Teen Goes on Rampage; 8 Dead

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A high school student went on a shooting rampage on this Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then five people at his school, "grinning and waving" as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The gunman was later found shot to death.


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To the best of my knowledge I don't know any of those killed. It is over 4 hours away but we do know people in that area. Pray for the families.

Wow...it's such a sad thing! Prayers ongoing!

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I wonder if beefed up school security is going to do anything, probably not.

Sad days.

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COMSEUR said:
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I wonder if beefed up school security is going to do anything, probably not.

Sad days.

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Probably not.... Just get more guards shot. Apparently he set off the metal detector at the school, and thats when he "clicked out" and started his rampage at the school.

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Sigman said:
Wow...it's such a sad thing! Prayers ongoing!

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I agree. It's sad for the innocent victims, and it's also sad to imagine what could possibly have driven someone like that to do such things and then do himself in. Somewhere, someone along the line has failed. And I'm not talking about metal detectors either.

My sympathies to all involved in and affected by this lose-lose situation.

Geeez. My heart goes out to any people associated with that. It's just terrible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Kinda makes me scared to go to school.

Geez That is sure bad news! My prayers go out to the families!

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KevinL said:
Somewhere, someone along the line has failed. And I'm not talking about metal detectors either.

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Life on the rez is not a pleasant one.

I think it was actually 10 people killed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Maxabaker, don't be scared to go to school. Statistically it's still the safest place for you to be, and overall in the US school violence is down since the 50's. No I don't have the link to the statistics, but I've heard it quoted several times now and if people want to argue I'll look it up.

My first thoughts are for the innocents killed and hurt and for their families, but my last thoughts go something like "OH MY GOD, please don't give us Curling for Red Lake" or some such garbage belittling the entire episode like what happened at Columbine...

Kid was into Goth and deathmetal wore a long black trenchcoat and called himself a nativenazi..

What is it with kids like this?...Could it be hmmmm...

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and overall in the US school violence is down since the 50's.

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Did they really had more killings back in the 50's, or do we now have less "I'll see you after school, kid"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Either way, it's sad.

Less total violence, but more severity.

When boys could settle it out behind the gym, nobody felt a real need to go get a gun.

When I graduated a quarter century ago, our school parking lot was full of cars and pickups with guns, almost everyone hunted on their way to or from school. No one ever brought a gun into the school. Almost every pickup had a gun rack in the back window and a rifle, shotgun, or both on the rack.

Now no guns on campus, but we were the first to have a major incident, back in 1996, when an 8th grader shot and killed a teacher, students (including a next door neighbor), and wounded others.

Life meant something, and when everybody used guns, we knew what happened to a body shot by one!!

Now, kids seem to think that you can be shot and pop back up like a video game and go on.

Our town grieves every time this happens elsewhere, because we KNOW what it does to a community!!

My heart goes out to all involved!

Bill

And why exactly didn't the security guard have kevlar?

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When boys could settle it out behind the gym, nobody felt a real need to go get a gun.

When I graduated a quarter century ago, our school parking lot was full of cars and pickups with guns, almost everyone hunted on their way to or from school. No one ever brought a gun into the school. Almost every pickup had a gun rack in the back window and a rifle, shotgun, or both on the rack.

Now no guns on campus, but we were the first to have a major incident, back in 1996, when an 8th grader shot and killed a teacher, students (including a next door neighbor), and wounded others.

Life meant something, and when everybody used guns, we knew what happened to a body shot by one!!

Now, kids seem to think that you can be shot and pop back up like a video game and go on.


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That's because most people aren't violent or homicidal. However, violence and homicide are both part of human nature, and there will always be those who do crap like this. It's not the parents' fault, it's not the fault of video games, music, Hitler, or the NRA. It has always been with us and always will be. It's because it is human nature to kill and that is what the individual chose to do, and it is virtually impossible to stop everyone from doing any violence at all.

People play the blame game because they do not want to look into themselves and know the truth. The truth being, the capability for violence and murder is within all of us, and has been with the human race far before any of the inanimate things we blame it on.

The dual nature of men's hearts is long proven and the reasons behind it long known.

I have always said its not men's laws that prevent me, but God's laws that restrain me.

I fear no man or what he can do to me.

I would disagree that the ability to MURDER is within all of us.

To kill, maybe, but murder, no.

We will kill to protect, but MOST humans innately do not want to murder others without threat to ourselves. Self protection, and to some extent, protection of others is built in, the desire to murder others is not.

While the argument could be made that murder is as old as humanity, to shrug and say, "that's just the way we are made" is a cop out!!

We do not HAVE to give in to our basest desires, we choose to do so, either by an accumulation of bad decisions, or, less frequently, a single terrible one.

To believe that outside influences do not play a part is both naive and against all research on the subject. We are, at least partially, a creation of out environment, and more so, a combination of learned and instinctual behavior in response to that environment.

To believe otherwise is to equate humans with unreasoning animals, saying that we have NO CHOICE in the matter. If that were the case, we would ALL be murderers.

Bill

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To kill, maybe, but murder, no.

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The only difference between the two is society's ever-changing definition of it. Morality, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. "Murder" and "kill" are hardly absolute definitions across societies, not even across time in one society.

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We will kill to protect, but MOST humans innately do not want to murder others without threat to ourselves. Self protection, and to some extent, protection of others is built in, the desire to murder others is not.

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Most humans DO get an urge to murder someone quite often. They simply don't act upon it due to morals/ethics/fear of punishment etc.

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While the argument could be made that murder is as old as humanity, to shrug and say, "that's just the way we are made" is a cop out!!

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It mostly certainly is not. Just because the base desire is there, the Freudian id if you will, doesn't excuse the lack of self control.

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To believe otherwise is to equate humans with unreasoning animals, saying that we have NO CHOICE in the matter. If that were the case, we would ALL be murderers.

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It's been clearly established that animals have reason, ethics, and morals.

CLEARLY? Show me that study!

It has been theorized, but to clearly demonstrate it would require the ability to communicate it to us unequivocably, and that is, at least so far, impossible. Scientists have observed behavior they intrepreted as ethical or moral, but cannot be sure that is the case.

Murder is easily defined, it is killing without threat to oneself. Oneself is also easily defined, that is the individual and what he she deems worthy of giving his life for.

However, we are playing semantics here.

It is most definitely not in all of out natures to MURDER, because, simply put, some of us have reached a stage where we feel no overwhelming urge to do so, for whatever reason, moral compunction, religious virtue, etc. thus it is not our NATURE.

Bill

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CLEARLY? Show me that study!

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Here's one link that should prove it to you, feel free to google for more... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3014747.stm

Though I'm really quite surprised that anyone would even argue over such a thing...

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It has been theorized, but to clearly demonstrate it would require the ability to communicate it to us unequivocably, and that is, at least so far, impossible.

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9 out of 10 gorillas who use sign language disagree.

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Scientists have observed behavior they intrepreted as ethical or moral, but cannot be sure that is the case.

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Completely untrue.

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Murder is easily defined, it is killing without threat to oneself. Oneself is also easily defined, that is the individual and what he she deems worthy of giving his life for.

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No, that is not the definition of murder. You are wrong. Murder is the unlawful use of lethal force. In the US there are many lawful uses of lethal force. In my state, Montana, you are authorized to use lethal force to prevent the comission of a forcible felony.

For example, if I saw a rape in progress, I could shoot the aggressor and kill him, and that would not be murder.

In Texas, I could shoot someone spray painting my house. And that would not be murder.

Murder is the unlawful use of lethal force, and the lawful use of lethal force is defined by the laws of man, changes over time, and is quite inconsistent.

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It is most definitely not in all of out natures to MURDER, because, simply put, some of us have reached a stage where we feel no overwhelming urge to do so, for whatever reason, moral compunction, religious virtue, etc. thus it is not our NATURE.

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Perhaps it is the case that some people never feel such a thing. However, it is the case that most people in society do feel the urge to commmit unlawful or immoral acts with great frequency, and do not because they have self-control.

That is why the majority of homicides are committed under the influence of alcohol or drugs. They can decrease reason and inhibition. This removes, to some extent, the self control people normally have over their actions.

For some people, that self control is lost even without drugs affecting the brain. This is one such case. And it is no one's fault but the person who committed the crime.